Childcare and your Taiwanese in-laws

Taiwan Parenting
1

Our first little turkey joined the flock nearly eight months ago. My wife has been staying at home with little JT and will continue doing so until he is at least a year old. Her mother loves kids (had seven of her own) and is quite fond of our boy, who is their first grandchild. Even though my wife had said all along that she would stay at home for at least one year, her mother continued to hope that we’d let her look after (read: rear) little JT all the way up until my wife resigned from her job. She is still keen to look after him once my wife starts working again.

My wife and I generally trust my MIL with our son, but there is definitely a generation and culture gap between the way we view family life and childcare and the way the MIL sees it. She would definitely provide a safe and loving environment for whatever period each day or week we would need to leave our son in her care, but we worry about our son picking up some of his grandparents habits and views on life. We have yet to decide when my wife will go back to work or what we will do for childcare when she does start working. I’m curious if anyone here has left their child in the care of their Taiwanese/Chinese in-laws on a daily basis. If so, how did it work out? How much time did your child spend with the in-laws?

2

Jive Turkey,

We live with my parentsinlaw. We have two children, aged 2 1/2 and almost 8 months. My inlaws help a lot with our kids, as well as with two nieces aged 7 and 5. There is still a big cultural and generation gap between my ideas and theirs, and it can be difficult at times. But I am slowly learning that there are some things you just have to let “go” to also teach your kids tolerance and make sure they do fit into the family they live with.

I am pretty lucky in that my motherinlaw will try to follow our wishes as much as she can. I am home most of the time and in the beginning we did have some clashes of ideas but over time we are working them out. For example, my motherinlaw loves to feed the kids, all of them, and I insist my kids feed themselves. She does try to let that go but I know she feeds my son when I am not looking. As my son can feed himself well and is happy to do so, I let this one go as my motherinlaw really seems to get joy from feeding him. Another example is the level of tolerance for mess, such as when doing art activities or playing outside. This one is a real see-saw from “:get in and get dirty” to “don’t touch anything at all” and I can’t see us working out this one, I do the messy stuff out of sight. On the other hand my parents in law are great models for Chinese language, manners, and expected behavior in Chinese social settings.

Now my son is a bit bigger I have to find ways to explain why he can do “A” with me but not with his grandparents, without making it sound like we disagree. Another example is the use of things like “the man downstairs will come and cook you up if you are so noisy”, I really disagree with this kind of behavior control so just tell him that the grandparents are just being silly, but you do have to respect others and think of how noisy it would sound to the poor guy (who has actually been dead for a few months now but that is another story). My motherinlaw’s mom was Japanese so she has some ideas which are even different from my fatherinlaw’s so it can get quite interesting around the place.

Actually I think the mix of cultures and language all together has been good for my son, so far I like the way he is turning out. But of course I am biased.

I hope that helps, if you have some specific concerns I would be happy to share my experience in those areas.

3

asiababy, you sound like a very cool mother – and a pretty damn cool daughter-in-law, too.

4

Sandman,

Thanks for the kinds words, but I know have a looooong way to go before I am anywhere near as “cool” as my motherinlaw.

5

I italicized what i figure is the main thing. :slight_smile:

our mother-in-law took care of our first daughter 6 hours a day for the first couple of years of her life. it worked out fine, and let me put it this way, i can’t see your gap being any greater than mine :slight_smile: if you are spending time with him, you are going to be the main figures in his life. i only spoke english to my kids which i think helped. and if you’re mother in law is anything like mine, the superiority of your way of thinking should quickly become apparant :slight_smile: for example, when you remove three extra layers of clothing from your son he is gonna say, hey dad is on the ball :slight_smile: she did pick up some pretty kicking taiwanese along the way which is good.

6

When my boy was born up until he was 11 months old when me and my boy moved out of the Taiwanese-in-laws after me and my boys mom split up, my in-laws were making me pay NT$15,000 for rent, which was not too bad for where we were and what we had, but also charged me NT$20,000 p/m for looking after my boy. So, I was paying them NT$35,000 a month.

So after I got sole custody and moved out, I got a cool 2 bedroom apartment for NT$11,000 p/m and my work collegues mom become my babysitter. I figure my friend was a decent person so her mom should have done a good job and she was also babysitting her own granddaughter, so, my boy had a playmate. The babysitter cost me only NT$9,000 p/m.

So, moving out was the best thing I did and it also saved me NT$15,000p/m.

My boy is now 7y/o and his Taiwanese grandparents have never tried to see him other than try to get custody during the ugly divorce and his mom provides nothing for him, which is OK by me as, well… it is just fine by me this way…

7

Wow. What dicks. Bet you’re glad you got out of that place.

8

Asiababy, you really do sound cool. I am wondering how you can put up with this? I don’t think, I’d be able to and I am glad I probably won’t have because we’re leaving soon. Are you Asian anyway or plain foreigner like me? Am I intolerant and you are super open minded? Just wondering…

9

There’s a definite “generation and culture gap between the way we view family life and childcare” and the way my own mother does. Yet, I would certainly let her, as well as my (Taiwanese) MIL, take care of our (as yet unborn) children. They are both caring mothers and grandmothers and would probably do a great job.

The important thing would be to ensure that you and your wife have plenty of quality time with your kids, and not fall into the Taiwanese trap of working 24-7 and having the grandparents raise them. That way you would be the dominant influence(s) on their life and not your MIL.

FWIW

10

The generation gap between my mother and me is one generation, between my parents in law and me, it’s at least 3 or more… They don’t even come close to my grand parents. =(

11

[quote=“TaipeiSean”] The babysitter cost me only NT$9,000 p/m.

[/quote]
Is this the going rate for childcare these days? Just curious what that entailed. Was it every day from Mon to Fri? Did you drop off the kid in the morning and pick him up after work? I’ll be in the market for childcare soon and have no clue what the rates are and what the care involves. The in-laws are an option, but after hearing your story, I’d like to look at some other options. Thanks for sharing.

12

[quote=“Incubus”][quote=“TaipeiSean”] The babysitter cost me only NT$9,000 p/m.

[/quote]
Is this the going rate for childcare these days? Just curious what that entailed. Was it every day from Mon to Fri? Did you drop off the kid in the morning and pick him up after work? I’ll be in the market for childcare soon and have no clue what the rates are and what the care involves. The in-laws are an option, but after hearing your story, I’d like to look at some other options. Thanks for sharing.[/quote]With my first babysitter, my friend’s mother, This was from when my boy was about 14 months to 3 and a bit years.

At first I would drop him off around 8am and then pick him up around 6:30pm, Monday to Friday. I would supply the baby formula for his bottles while he still had them and also the nappies (diapers). Also had to buy lots of extra clothes to keep at the babysitter’s, too.

So at that time it was NT$9000 for around 10 hours, 5 days a week, for month.

When he started a kindy in Yo-Yo class, about 2 years old, the kindy bus used to come at around 8:30, so at first I used to stll drop him around the babysitters for 30 minutes and then the kindy bus would go to her place to pick up my boy. Then the kindy bus would drop him off again around 5:30pm at the babysitters. She would give him dinner and bath him. She would also wash the clothes he had worn that day so she always had a supply of clothes there.

Not long after that, through some trouble my ex-wife caused, I had to “quit” my regular hours office job and go back to a teaching position. So at that time, I could wait with him till the kindy bus came and then I would go to the gym and then work. The kindy bus would still drop him off around 5:30pm, but, I now didn’t get home till around 9:30pm - 10:00pm.

So at this stage, I still paid her NT$9000 but with reduced hours of 4 - 5hrs 5 days a week, per month. I kept it the same as she was keeping him later at night.

Sometimes I asked her if she could look after him on a Satuday night so I could go out with a friend, but not many times. As you can probably see from my work and his kindy, I didn’t get to see him much, so I seldom went out without him. Not much social life for a single dad…

Anyway, when he was about 4, I could tell that my boy was starting to wear down my friend’s mom. Oh, she was about 60y/o, but I thought she was pretty cool. So, I decided to change babysitters. My boy’s kindergarten helped me. They found a nanny service and one of the teachers went with me to check out the nannies and their apartments.

The good thing with these nannies is that they have some kind of government registration, not sure what that exactly means or what qualifications they have to have to be registered, but I guess it means if there was any trouble, you know who they are.

I decided on a lady about 50 y/o, she is a widow and looks after her son’s young daughter as well as a couple of other kids. She was proud of her registration and she tried to make her apartment child friendly. With her it was the same deal as what I had, kindy bus would drop him off around 5:30pm and I would pick him up around 10:00pm. She lived a bit further way from my place.

So for 4 - 5 hours, 5 days a week, I now paid NT$8000, for babysitting, but she also wanted NT$1000 for any additional expenses, like she would take him to the park in the evenings in summer and maybe buy him an ice cream or some candy. It was still NT$9000 a month so, that was fine. She still washed his clothes everyday, bathed him and gave him dinner. But she also said that I must give her a Chinese New Year bonus every year equal to one month’s babysitting fee. Well, OK… But she doesn’t like to take him on a Saturday.

Now he is in elementary school, grade 1, and the babysitting still follows the same routine.

I have thought about trying to find a nanny who would pick my boy up from AnChinBan and bring him home to my place and make dinner for him as well as me for when I get home and to bath him and make sure he finished his homework and to get him ready for bed, maybe keep my place a bit cleaner too, but haven’t really done any research into this to see how much it costs. The advantage with this is that he could go to bed earlier and get more sleep, it is such a struggle to get him up at 7:00am to get ready for school, but then, I wouldn’t get to see him for even the short time that I do see him every night…

Anyway, that’s the way it goes…

13

Thanks very much, Sean, for sharing all that. It seems that you’ve had some very good deals. I did some research on the web and found that for Taipei city, the rates for childcare is $15,000 to $20,000/mo. for fullday care (a full day being a 7-12 hour day), and $7,000 to $15,000/mo. for halfday care (3-6 hour day). (Can someone corroborate this?) Of course at the end of the day, the money is only secondary when it comes to the child’s well-being and safety. I guess for you the worst is over as your son matures and becomes more independent. Congratulations!

My in-laws are in their late 60s, and that’s a bit on the old side for taking care of a newborn IMO, but then I hesitate to entrust my future son to a total stranger. (Remember those news reports of abusive nannies caught on hidden cameras?) Thanks for pointing out the government registration. That’s definitely something to ask for. So, trustworthiness, professionalism and cost, those are what’s on the balance for me.

What about the rest of you who let your in-laws look after your kids. Do you pay them anything or is it all pro bono? How did you settle it?

14

miso,

Like you, I am a foreigner, but I lived here for eight years before I met my husband so I had some time to learn about life here before we got married. I also had my own good life here so I don’t have to feel “Stuck” as I imagine I would have if I had moved over here from overseas with my husband. I also speak Chinese and my fatherinlaw speaks good English so we can communicate fairly well. That said, it’s not always easy and I am not a saint, I get frustrated and have to hold my tongue. My father often reminded us that there are over 5 billion people in the world and if you just walk away the person bothering you can easily find someone else to take their frustrations with the world out on.

Incubus, my sisterinlaw asked my motherinlaw to look after her children a couple of years ago. My motherinlaw said she was too old to do that, and as she had worked when her own kids were growing up she didn’t know how to care for babies. So what they arranged was a babysitter to come to my inlaws’ home and my motherinlaw was there, doing house duties and just supervising the babysitter. That worked really well for them.

15

Hi asiababy,

maybe I am just not as tolerant as I should be. Basically the same applies for me, lived in China and Taiwan for a while before I met the husband and got married 7 years later. Getting along well with the family, but what I see and hear does not make me confortable to leave any children with them. Even my husband would not want that and I am really glad we’re on the same line here. Anyhow, we’re moving off the island, so won’t have to worry about what to do anymore. Uffff…

16

I think my in-laws would have welcomed me. Maybe I could have lived with them. But it would have been a strain on everyone at times. As it just wasn’t needful, we didn’t. I’d don’t think I’ve ever met another foreigner woman who has lived with in-laws. Good on ya, Asiababy! Most Taiwanese girls I know don’t even want to do that. I have met a Taiwanese man who moved in with his wife’s parent’s though.

Sorry, to be on topic, we DID live in a house owned by and in-law. I was upstairs once and left my then toddler son with his Go-Buh. He needed his diaper changed and she had stripped him and was trying to shower him clean. I came down stairs to find them because he was screaming in fear. She loves him, and loved to play with him and feed him, but she had no idea how to actually care for him. She had no kids of her own and no experience with any of her sister’s kids when they were young. A-Gong had passed away already, her sister lived in another town, and my son’s Taiwanese grandmother has never seen him. So the in-laws as baby sitters wasn’t a possible issue. My son’s Taiwanese A-Gong did watch him once for an hour.