[quote=“tommy525”]Maybe thats why she was refused a US visa?
[/quote]
It’s not unlikely. The visa authorities wouldn’t need any reason beyond that.
I don’t like getting smacked by bags either, but what is the point of making a fuss about it, meh.
$150,000 NT seems like peanuts in terms of the bad publicity this could cause CA, considering that this guy came over here specifically to help Taiwanese students. I might be looking into turning that about.
The thing that shocked me about the story was how long he was stuck in Taiwan waiting for the court case and so on. I seem to recall it was at least a couple of months. That makes it considerably more than a NT$150k fine, taking into account lost earnings and hotels, etc.
HG
Haha, that wasnt you was it Charlie?’
Admittedly, its pretty scary for the young gal.
2.5 months. The case was, however, expedited. Had the defendant been a Taiwanese national, it would have been a non-story, as the guy could have stayed at his home and continued to work. Being a foreign national, however, there was pressure to return home to home, job and other prior commitments.
Just to be clear, the old guy was only fined NT$ 3,000. The NT$ 150,000 was the civil settlement that the court encouraged him to pay. His travel restriction based on the criminal case was lifted immediately after he paid the NT$ 150,000. He could have refused to settle, but then could not be certain as to when the judges would lift his travel ban.
He didn’t make any fuss. He quietly got up from his aisle seat and sat quietly in the attendant’s seat, intending to stay there only until boarding was substantially completed. The attendant approached him and asked him to return to his seat. He explained that he was only sitting there to avoid being bumped by baggage and patted the outer thigh of the attendant to make his point, and then got up and returned to his seat. About ten minutes later, just before take-off, the pilot and security went to the guy’s seat to tell him that he had to get off the plane. He got off the plane without any fuss.
Seems an unfortunate incident without malice. Too bad Ci didnt talk to the stewardess in question and persuade her to drop the matter? OR was she unwilling?
He wasn’t prosecuted or sued for sitting in the flight attendants’ seat.[/quote]
Not even customer service agents, when flying on company tickets for work or pleasure, can sit there.
He could have claimed he was unaware of this rule, that is why he was not prosecuted on this instance. Moreover, what the stewardress deemed as “inappropiate touching” is far more serious and punishable, both by morals and law.
Maybe she could have been more lenient. But it is a very stressful job and when push comes to shove, patience and mercy just break.
He wasn’t prosecuted or sued for sitting in the flight attendants’ seat.[/quote]
Not even customer service agents, when flying on company tickets for work or pleasure, can sit there.[/quote]
That’s irrelevant to the case. The suit focuses on his touching of the stewardess.
Along with justice!
Yes, indeed. Of course, if the incident transcurred as per Tigerman’s account, we cannot see why it got out of hand and into a lawsuit.
But I place myself in her shoes. What if I turned around and saw a customer behind the ticket counter? Even if he said that he needed a paper towel or something, I would be a bit peeved. Then, if he gestured towards me or needed my help, I would not be neutral, my perception of him would be clouded by the first impression. I am human, I cannot help it. Also, my job is very stressful and I must stay on the defensive all the time, as I do not know when a customer might get aggressive. As a woman clerk, I am also used to dirty looks and dirty comments, so I am also on the lookout of any situation that can go in a bad direction, as it is difficult to have support from fellow female colleagues -not to say males- in these situations. So my only recourse is the law.
I trust the opinion of the stewardesses workmate on this one. It was a cynical shakedown, carried out in confidence that the old man would settle quickly in order to get his travel ban lifted. What a nasty bitch.
I empathize with flight attendants having to put up with all the disgruntled passengers, especially in these days where even the peanuts aren’t free. It’s my understanding that Icon used to be a flight attendant and makes very good, valid points, and it seems the guy could have been way out of line, though one would need to know all of the relevant facts in this case (what objectively happened, not just each party’s subjective version), to draw a conclusion.
But, if it happened as Tigerman said, it sounds like the guy meant no harm, didn’t harass her, never posed a threat to anyone, and the women is an evil bitch who was merely trying to shake him down. As an attorney, I too know that, regrettably, that kind of crap happens all too often. There are lots of people in the world who falsely believe litigation is an easy road to riches and who will stoop to all kinds of lies, dirty tricks and other incredibly nasty behavior to win at any cost against an adversary who is often perfectly innocent and a nice and decent person, and too many lawyers who will help facilitate their behavior. In fact, I gave up my law practice and moved to asia searching for a new career, because I was so sick and tired of dealing with the lies, hostilities and dirty tricks of personal litigation.
So, I refuse to draw a conclusion, because I don’t know any of the facts of this case first-hand, but if the flight attendant’s version is correct the guy was definitely wrong; if Tigerman’s version is correct, she’s a really nasty bitch and hopefully, presumably, she will get her comeuppance one way or another.
One assumes she saw quite a bit of joystick before opting for the legal route.
HG
I think a few people are having trouble visualizing exactly what happened. I propose a reenactment, and I gallantly volunteer to be the hostee. Just a minute… let me check… Kyoto senior girls high, Hong Kong traffic warden, um, got it, a China Airlines hostess uniform. That will made things more realistic.
you can be the bloke they call to fix the air con.
Icon is right bout the jumpseats. The FAA has regulations about who can sit there and its only on duty crew assigned to that flight during landings and take offs. Even off duty flight crew in uniform cant sit there during landings or take offs.
My ex GF was a stew with CX. And when flying deadhead back to Taipei on her days off shes in uniform and sitting in a regular passenger seat in the cabin. If the flight is full, the only other seat she can sit in is one of the jumpseats actually in the Cockpit but not one of the jumpseats in the cabin during landings and takeoff. Jumpseats in the cockpit were at the discretion of the Captain, until recently after 911 when its simply illegal for non airline staff to be in there at any time.
Thats my understanding anyway. If Im wrong ? You know what to do.
[quote=“tommy525”]Haha, that wasn’t you was it Charlie?’
Admittedly, its pretty scary for the young gal.[/quote]
No, that wasn’t me, tommy525. My point was to show a certain inconsistency in the administration of justice here, and to put things in perspective. Maybe I should have used this example instead:
I don’t have a way to check the above account for accuracy, and for all I know it could be made up, but there are other accounts that indicate the inconsistency I referred to.
Is there no reasonableness test in Taiwan? In common law, touching an other person does not become an assault unless it can be shown that the plaintiff apprehended some kind of fear of violence. If it is the tort of tresspass to the person it’s an even lower threshold. Given what we have here, in order for someone in Taiwan to shake down a foriegn visitor, all they have to do is make any accusation, no matter how ludicrous, and see if the victim blinks before the trial. So no preliminary hearing? Indeed why would there be? Doesn’t need to go to court at all. This is a licence to print money. Good old Taiwan!
I suppose CAL will cash in by selling legal indemnity insurance with every ticket.
I wonder where China Airlines was in all of this? What was their position? Albeit if an employee decides to sue because of being touched, the airline would itself be sued if it fired the employee later I would imagine.
I think the woman deserved 3000nt PERIOD, no more.
PERIOD?
If wrongdoing was done, she deserves the cash. Dck should have a bit of courtesy. But if not, she deserves nothing, and probably a counter-claim for harrassment. 3000NT is an insult if a ‘crime’ was committed.
I think the guys here think it was a pretty minor offense without intent to sexually harass. But ladies may think otherwise of course. If it went to a jury (not gonna happen in Taiwan as Taiwan uses the 3 judges procedure) the outcome may depend on how many women vs men on the jury?
NO doubt the hapless Professor should have known better, being a man of education. And I do think the situ would be much worse for him had this happened to him on an American airline in the USA. I mean had he done the same in the USA on an American airline.