China to "resolve Taiwan problem" by 2020


#61

yeah, the people from the mainland are all staunch kmt supporters. the people who did the killing were from the mainland. the people who were killed were not from the mainland. what’s your point again?

back to the topic at hand, do you want self-determination or not? you preach about self-determination for puerto rico, hawaii, california, whatever. but then when it comes to taiwan, it’s all “oh, we need to kill a few thousand people first before we give you self determination.”

do you believe the people of taiwan should be allowed a direct vote in either unification or a declaration of independence? just a simple yes or no will do.


#62

Sidestepping the issues of where the people originated from that participated, instigated, and eventually victimized in the events now call the 228 incident, we come to the question of self-determination.

But like all political paradigms and philosophies, they do not exist in ideal vacuum. One of the results of the


#63

[quote=“ac_squealer”]Sidestepping the issues of where the people originated from that participated, instigated, and eventually victimized in the events now call the 228 incident
[/quote]
How convenient. No apology required for things we don’t talk about.

[quote=“ac_squealer”]
But like all political paradigms and philosophies, they do not exist in ideal vacuum. One of the results of the


#64

[quote=“ac_dropout”]
[/quote]

Very nicely written - measured and with careful consideration of the nuances of the PRC-ROC relationship.


#65

so that’s a “no” on the self-determination question. gotcha. :wink:


#66

[quote=“Flipper”]
do you believe the people of Taiwan should be allowed a direct vote in either unification or a declaration of independence? just a simple yes or no will do.[/quote]

Wrong question and wrong choice of words. Allow? No, Taiwan should just do. The starting point for action is either it is sovereign or it is not.

If it is sovereign, then the only two choices facing it is (1) formalize that with a change in the constitution to that effect, and (2) hold a direct vote on unification.

If it is not sovereign, then the only two choices it has is (1) does it want to declare independence, and (2) does it want to speed the normalization (i.e. integration) of relations with the PRC government (which could mean being designated as a SEZ).

That is what Taiwan faces. It’s not rocket science.

The KMT has already voted. With their money they’ve voted a resounding yes to unification with China (or quick retreat to Southern California).

The DPP and CSB better get off the fence soon because the country desperately needs vision and direction. CSB with his disavowal of some important promises after the election win and his inability to bring any semblance of unity can’t lead; he’s treading water. A President who must be surrounded by metal barricades and barbed wire is not a President capable of leadership. It’s a President who’s spending jail time until he can get out at the end of his term.

That boys and girls is the current state of political affairs of Taiwan.


#67

Agreed. As the Wobblies say, “direct action gets the goods”. The constitution should be amended to reflect the fact that Taiwan is a separate country, all the Republic of China nonsense should be dropped. Long live the Republic of Taiwan. Just prior to the Olympics would be optimum.


#68

According to your logic, all of western Europe and South Korea should have just thrown up their hands and surrendered to Soviet tyranny rather than accept help from the US to maintain their sovereignty and right to decide their own fate.


#69

[quote=“Jive Turkey”]
South Korea should have just thrown up their hands and surrendered to Soviet tyranny[/quote]
I think that would have been Chinese tyranny since it was their military involved in the fight with the US, but what’s the difference? Communism is Good after all :wink:


#70

Jive Turkey,

Once again you fall back on the Cold War paradigm. The basis of our support back then was the USSR did have a expansionist policy for warm water ports. So USA counters with containment and funded sedition within the USSR.

But now the paradigm of the Strait Issue is totally different. PRC for the most part doesn’t have an expansionist policy in the region. The territories PRC have been going after are those they see as being unfairly annexed due to foreign invasion at the late 19th and beginning of the 20th century.

USA has been quick to realize how can one treat PRC as a full economic partner yet political enemy. I suspect their


#71

Well it didnt work as Puerto Rico has a very lively and legal independence movement. Its like Quebec though, they think it would hurt them economically to separate.

The USA isnt comparable. You should be using the old Soviet Union after which Mao modelled his autonomous regions idea. These conquered nations will most definitely gain their independence and the PRC would abandon its claim to Taiwan if democracy was adopted.

I know it was truly disgusting. This is why I don`t buy the USa being democratic for 200 years argument.

[quote]You make it sound as if democracy is a process that cannot be tampered with nor weighted against dissidents and minority groups. How na


#72

Agreed. As the Wobblies say, “direct action gets the goods”. The constitution should be amended to reflect the fact that Taiwan is a separate country, all the Republic of China nonsense should be dropped. Long live the Republic of Taiwan. Just prior to the Olympics would be optimum.[/quote]

Yep, I think that’s what Taiwan should do too. Make a decision and let the chips fall where they may. Sitting on the fence with a stick (er, missile) up your butt it not a way to live. (Unless you like that sort of thing :wink: ).

I like the quote. I’ll have to shamelessly use it in the future :slight_smile:


#73

[quote=“ac_dropout”]
USA has been quick to realize how can one treat PRC as a full economic partner yet political enemy. I suspect their


#74

Seems the whole ‘reunify by 2020’ could be a load of hot air

[quote] HANGZHOU - China has, for the first time, denied categorically that it has set a timetable to reunify Taiwan by force within the next 20 years.

‘I have not seen any reports on this in the mainland’s formal media, and internally, I’ve also not heard of such a document,’ Mr Wang Zaixi, vice-director of the Chinese Cabinet’s Taiwan Affairs Office (TAO), said yesterday.[/quote]


#75

[quote=“david”]Seems the whole ‘reunify by 2020’ could be a load of hot air

[quote] HANGZHOU - China has, for the first time, denied categorically that it has set a timetable to reunify Taiwan by force within the next 20 years.

‘I have not seen any reports on this in the mainland’s formal media, and internally, I’ve also not heard of such a document,’ Mr Wang Zaixi, vice-director of the Chinese Cabinet’s Taiwan Affairs Office (TAO), said yesterday.[/quote][/quote]

More likely, they changed their tune after certain countries expressed their displeasure, both publically and privately.


#76

[quote=“ac_dropout”]Flipper,

I think you wanted to refer to the period known as “white terror.” 228 is ROC’s Tiananmen now. But notice how the older generation are all stauch KMT supporter still.

It is a political reality that capital punishment is one of the best ways to deter criminals, dissenters, and other would be enemies of the state.[/quote]

ALL ? you always make use of ALL… so you personally asked ALL the older people did you?

I know many older people who have no time for the KMT… 228 has nothing in common with Tianamen Square… you’re always trying to link historical events that have no correlation.

You mean using capital punishment as a means of murder for profit. Thank god you’re not a president of any country.


#77

You notice how the pan-blue politicos like to stand up and spout about how they speak for all of Taiwan’s people? Did they ever knock on your door to ask, or call on the phone to see what you thought? Something tells me either they’re only polling the area around Sungshan airport, or they’re indulging in wishful thinking again.
Did you ever read that list of reasons why there are so few asian-americans in politics? A top-five reason is that there’s no money in it. This will soon be the case here in Taiwan, so I think we’ll spared the horror of squealer holding any political office here. Prospects for the lining of pockets are much better in his motherland.


#78

Satellite TV,

A good portion of older generation, above 50, fall into the ai-KMT category if you want to be specific about it.

I believe 228 is very similar to Tiananmen as a political concept. It is a rallying concept for a group. It has become a mythos devoid of the history or a history with a political purpose now.

hsiadogah,

Polling are actually pretty small samples in ROC. They only use about 1000 people at a time. I’ve rare seen a political poll on Taiwan exceed 5,000 individuals.

As for political future of AA in ROC, I think even those AA who are bi-cultural enough to enter politics in ROC would think twice. The environment is somewhat counter to the American sensibility when it comes to politics.

As for making money, who needs politics. It


#79

[quote=“squealer”]
I believe 228 is very similar to Tiananmen as a political concept. It is a rallying concept for a group. It has become a mythos devoid of the history or a history with a political purpose now.[/quote]
Obviously no-one in your family was affected by either event. You really are a cold-hearted bastard, but thanks for demonstrating why the KMT youth are so unapologetic, and why we can never again trust them with power.


#80

hsiadogah,

Well my family hails from Yilan. Not much political turmoil during 228 in Yilan. Everyone in my father’s generation decided they had enough of farming and sleeping with the livestock that would enter the home at will. So they went to college under the KMT rule. For the most part because one of the family members was raped during the Japanese colonial period, they view the KMT in a better light than the Japanese colonial period.

I mean many of the political divisions on Taiwan are more about the expression on ones experiences on the island than actual politics that might progress nation as a whole.

As for Tiananmen, I did have an opportunity to meet many visiting professors and intellects in exile from the PRC while in college, because of the broad political asylum status in the USA for people who