Chinese Language Division (CLD) at NTU

Hi, I’m trying to decide between studying Mandarin for 2 semesters at either CLD (Taida) or MTC (Shida). It seems most ppl here go to MTC so there’s plenty of up-to-date info on that place, but the latest post I found relating to CLD was in 2006/07.

They are both roughly the same price but it seems MTC offers extras like culture classes and field trips. I’m wondering if CLD offers the same. I’m leaning more towards CLD because apparently they have smaller classes, and I am attracted to the fact that its not as famous as MTC so maybe there are less English speakers there for me to fall back on. But at the same time its in the reputable National Taiwan University in the city centre.

Just for you guys to take note as well, NTU offers two courses: ICLP and CLD. Please don’t get the two mixed up. I’ve heard of ICLP and I don’t think I would qualify for it. =P

So has anyone studied at CLD (Tai-Da)? Your experiences would be most helpful to me =D

I thought i could share a message i sent to a friend on the same topic:

The prices advertised on the websites are not always accurate. Call each Uni for advice.

To study Chinese in Taipei you have 3 choices:
-NTU (Taida): The top notch, 4 to 6 students per class, gorgeous campus and sport center, traditional curriculum. 195NT$ (or so) per hour.
-NTNU (Shida): The contender, preferred by most foreigners (I should say English teachers), I heard they have nice facilities as well, admins are bitches though. 6 to 10 students per class, Traditional curriculum, 175 NT$ per hour.
-CCU (Huen Hua): The underdog. 8 to 12 students per class. I haven’t visited it and cannot comment on anything about its campus. It was recommended to me more than once since they are said to have best curriculum in Taipei: They don’t try to cram in as many lessons as possible, and are said to take time to teach the important basis. 145NT$ per hour.

I choose NTU for a few reasons: It is close to my place, their admissions were more flexible, It is the “local Harvard” and hence has the best students in the country (that should make for interesting people), it has the fewest people per class, and I am looking to learn quickly. Plus they have a really nice sport center.

Before that I was at NCKU, taking the 180 hours program. That means 2 hours 3 days a week, and 4 hours 2 days a week.

Now, it’s been two weeks I have been at CLD, and I must say: Yes their classes are small. Other student in my classroom are indian, japanese, vietnamese, and canadian (I’m french).
I do find that classes have too intense a level for me. It litteraly rapes your brain, and missing a class is a big big problem.
My teacher is not as experienced as the one I had in NCKU, and she doesn’t have her own laptop (CLD does not provide laptops to teacher, who need to buy them on their own).
Otherwise the place is fine, the students nice, and it makes for a good learning experience (apart for that indian monk who likes to remove his shoes a bit too often during class).

I can weigh in on part of your question too. I am currently enrolled in the MTC program’s “Intensive” program. I also have a friend who is currently studying at CLD so when I talk to her next I’ll see if I can get her to post her opinion on CLD.

A bit of background is in order. I studied at ICLP from 09/2005 to 06/2006. That’s the insanely expensive program on the 3rd and 4th floor of the NTU language building that’s geared towards graduate students and higher. I basically started at the very beginning again despite two years of Chinese class in college. It got me to a level where I could converse with other people and understand them, however it wasn’t every day vocabulary.

That being said, I’m back studying Chinese again this time at MTC. From the new student orientation two weeks ago, the requirements for studying Chinese have changed. It is now 15 hours a week of “class” to qualify for a Resident visa for studying Chinese. I put class in quotation marks because the regular level classes at MTC meet 5 days a week for 2 hours a day. To overcome the 5 hour deficit, they require you to do 5 hours of “supplemental instruction”, have a time card stamped and turn it in to your teacher at the end of every month. According to the orientation, culture classes count, as does studying in the library, listening to Chinese materials, working in the computer lab, etc etc. They stressed that if you don’t attend enough hours of supplemental instruction, you’ll be denied an extension on your visa.

Admin:
Can’t speak to that as I haven’t had any problems with them. My registration was rather painless too since I got there early on the second day. They responded to my questions via email quickly.

Class size:
As for the class size, right now I am in starting in the middle of book 4 of Practical Audio Visual Chinese. My class has 1 guy from Indonesia, 3 Japanese (1 guy and two girls), a girl from Mongolia, and 3 Americans (including myself). Its a full class of 8 people. Two people added the class after two didn’t show up for the first week of class. When we had 5 people it was obviously more practice time for each person, and 8 is pushing the limits of getting to talk much at all. The regular classes I have seen have the same number of students or more in each. As you move up to the higher levels the number of students decreases accordingly.

Teacher:
Our teacher is Cheng (程) laoshi. She has lots of experience teaching with over 17 years at TLI, but this is her first semester at MTC. As a result it’s a mixed bag with her. She is a good teacher in the class room but is assigning a bit too much homework each night. The continuing students don’t have a problem with that, but since I haven’t really practiced writing characters I have been having trouble finishing the homework. It’s also hard to compare with the Japanese students when it comes to writing characters.

Difficulty:
As I have already studied this level when I was here three years ago, I don’t have the same problem that Ed en Vadrouille does. I did the first time though. If you aren’t ready for Intensive classes, you can be quickly left behind. Its even worse when you are competing in a class against students who come from Japan or Korea. It really depends on the teacher whether that can be a good thing or a bad thing. With the right teacher, they can help you improve faster. A bad teacher will point out how you aren’t studying enough and how your classmates are doing better than you. I’ve had both. The second scenario really sucks and you shouldn’t put up with it any longer than necessary.

Conclusion:
My personal war is with my teacher on homework. It seems to be a common problem among my friends and I in different classes and different universities that Taiwanese teachers like to assign a lot of homework. For example, this weekend we are supposed to write: 1 sentence examples for 10 characters, 2 sentences for each of 4 grammar patterns, correct any mistakes on our latest “ting xie” (聽寫) 5 times for each character written wrong, write a 250 character minimum letter to a friend about 1 of 4 prompts (you get to choose which one) and prepare to talk on Monday a list of discussion topics given on Friday. This list of 8 discussion topics is about equality of the sexes in your country.

Given that in the intensive program we have 3 hours a day, and cover a chapter every 3 days, there are approximately four listening tests (聽寫) and 1 test a week. It alternates, but there will be a minimum of 3 listening tests a week and a max of two tests in one week. The average weeknight’s homework is what was listened above, minus the letter and discussion topic.

The literature from MTC says that you need a minimum of three hours a night preparing for the next day. I find it closer to 5 or 6 when homework is included. This is primarily because I can’t write well, or quickly, and have to make a lot of corrections from the previous day’s homework and listening tests. Then you have the current nights homework and preparing for the next days lesson. As time goes on, you get accustomed to the pace and workload. For my friend in a different level than I, since it’s his first time doing Intensive Chinese, he is studying between 6-8 hours a night currently.

The only other comment I have is about NTNU being preferred by English teachers. I don’t know how long the restriction has been in effect, but they won’t let you change classes because of conflicts with work. That was made explicitly clear and in large bold letters on the materials given to us.

To study Chinese in Taipei, there are dozens of choices. More than a few are accredited but most are not.

I like CCU. They use the same books as NTU and Shi-da, and have great great teachers. They try to keep class size down to less than 10 and average about 8 from my experience.

I should add: Admin at NTU have been great with me. Friendly, helpful, kind, speaking English when they feel my Chinese get’s too poor, letting me print from their computer, not harassing me as it took me a week after due date to pay the tuitions…

When I tried to enroll at NTNU, I only had trouble and lies with one of those ladies (who said very clearly something on Friday, but denied it in front of her colleague on Monday). It maybe an isolated incident, but always worth reporting.
EDIT: Jennifer, the english speaking secretary at NTNU is very helpful and pleasantly straightforward.

Thanks alot everyone for posting :slight_smile:

I found your replies really helpful and I look forward to moving to Taipei for the December semester.

I think I’ve made my decision and go to CLD at Taida, since they reply to my email questions very promptly and I’ve already received a admission letter.

But now I’m also nervous about the homework intensity! I thought 3 hours a day of classes seemed quite little and breezy, but 6 hrs of outside study a day seems really harsh! And the homework curriculum at MTC seems alot too. I hope I will be able to cope. I can speak some mandarin and know pinyin, but I have absolutely no experience in writing chinese characters.

In any case, I shall update my experiences at CLD here when I start :slight_smile:

Comparing TLI, Shida and Taida.

Course materials
Most schools in Taiwan use the books of Shida. They are regarded to be the standard among the language industry.
Taida teachers often supplements it with their own materials.

Visa permit
TLI only provides 6 months student visa (2 months, extendable twice with two months.
Shida and Taida provide the visa as long as you study at their school

Teachers and classmates
You may have mixed experiences with teachers and classmates.
Sometimes, you can get into a class with only Japanese, who continue to speak Japanese most of the time. Most of the time, you will get into a “UN classroom”; a group of people with a wide variety of nationalities.

Class size:
At Shida, elementary levels tend to be 7 to 10 students and 5 to 7 students for intermediate and advanced levels.
At TLI, class sizes tend to be 6 to 10 students.
No numbers available for Taida.

Facilities:
You can use several of the Taida and Shida student facilities:
Shida has sports facilities, large library, 7th floor MTC library, cultural activities and much more.
TLI has only a small library and a few activities.
Taida is comparable to Shida.

Price: TLI is the cheapest.
Second comes Shida and third Taida.
:slight_smile:

This thread has some useful information. A friend went to shida and said the teacher she had was old fashioned and a little dull. I’m thinking taida is the best option at the moment but for the price…

I’m thinking of joining a course ASAP…can anyone give me advice about what to do though as I’ve missed the semester. Is it possible just to join by the month and if so, what will happen to my visa (60 days basic visitors visa) :ponder:

I’ve done ICLP, Shi-Da, and NCCU.

NCCU was probably the weakest of the three, although I think it had a lot to do with my teacher, she was really lazy, barely assigned any work, and just had us “discuss” in class why she just sat on her ass. Thank god she was so pretty or I would have reported her. I think it’s really hit-or-miss with teachers there, but is pretty well run otherwise.

Shi-Da was quite nice, and beats everyone hands down for the amount of students taking Chinese there. In my class I was the only Westerner, all others being Japanese, Korean, and Indonesian. Had a good teacher, and classmates were good. The class size was under 10, the same for NCCU. One of the underrated advantages of these two schools is the amount of diversity amongst students. Due to all of the non-Western learners, Chinese becomes the lingua franca not because of some “language pledge” but because of necessity. It gives beginning and intermediate learners plenty of speaking practice without having to worry about making mistakes, although sometimes it can reinforce poor grammatical habits.

ICLP at NTU is my favorite. There is a 4 person cap on students, the summer semester has 2 regular classes and a one one-on-one class, the other semesters have 3 regular classes and one one-on-one. However, they are pretty flexible if you are there for the year, and almost all of the classes can be tailored to your needs, as long as you can find other students to take the class with you. The teachers are fantastic and absolutely make the experience. ICLP is known in the Chinese-teaching world as a top-tier institution, and it attracts some of the best teachers around. They also have a rigorous hiring policy from what I understand, and it reflects in the teaching staff. Students are generally grad level or higher, although from what I understand they are attracting more and more undergrads, and have begun teaching lower level chinese classes, although it was initially only intended for advanced students. The tuition is quite high, even by American standards, but a lot of people come on scholarships (I certainly did). The biggest issue is that probably 90% of the students are American, which makes it hard to get Chinese speaking practice, although there is a language pledge when in school, and it is often strictly enforced.

All in all I think it really depends on what your needs are as a student of Chinese. If you’re looking to learn but don’t want to dedicate all of your waking hours to it, Shi-Da, NCCU, and most of the other places are better suited for you. If you absolutely must learn as much Chinese as you possible can in a short period of time (read: strong masochistic tendencies), then I would go with ICLP.

[quote=“Edaren”]I’ve done ICLP, Shi-Da, and NCCU.

ICLP at NTU is my favorite. There is a 4 person cap on students, the summer semester has 2 regular classes and a one one-on-one class, the other semesters have 3 regular classes and one one-on-one. However, they are pretty flexible if you are there for the year, and almost all of the classes can be tailored to your needs, as long as you can find other students to take the class with you. The teachers are fantastic and absolutely make the experience. ICLP is known in the Chinese-teaching world as a top-tier institution, and it attracts some of the best teachers around. They also have a rigorous hiring policy from what I understand, and it reflects in the teaching staff. Students are generally grad level or higher, although from what I understand they are attracting more and more undergrads, and have begun teaching lower level Chinese classes, although it was initially only intended for advanced students. The tuition is quite high, even by American standards, but a lot of people come on scholarships (I certainly did). The biggest issue is that probably 90% of the students are American, which makes it hard to get Chinese speaking practice, although there is a language pledge when in school, and it is often strictly enforced.

All in all I think it really depends on what your needs are as a student of Chinese. If you’re looking to learn but don’t want to dedicate all of your waking hours to it, Shi-Da, NCCU, and most of the other places are better suited for you. If you absolutely must learn as much Chinese as you possible can in a short period of time (read: strong masochistic tendencies), then I would go with ICLP.[/quote]

This is all really good and useful information about the different learning centres in Taipei. And ICLP certainly seems to be the favourite for serious learners of Mandarin.

However i would like to reiterate that this thread refers specifically to the Chinese Language Division (CLD) that is in the same University as ICLP, but is a completely different course. There is already enough information on ICLP and Shida and its great that its constantly upgraded.

I’m just hoping that the same can be done with the CLD. :slight_smile: Since I had alot of trouble finding info on them.

From what i have learned thus far - the main differences between ICLP and CLD is this:

  • ICLP requires a minimum of 1 year commitment to the course; while CLD requires 3 months (just like Shida)
  • ICLP is way more expensive than CLD and any other language centre for that matter.

The reason I choose CLD is because I cannot take a whole year off work to study mandarin. I can only do 6 months tops - hence it was either Shida or CLD for me.

I am not so sure about that. Plenty of Americans, Canadians, and Europeans speaking English with each other.

[quote=“Tequila”]Thanks alot everyone for posting :slight_smile:

I found your replies really helpful and I look forward to moving to Taipei for the December semester.

I think I’ve made my decision and go to CLD at Tai-Da, since they reply to my email questions very promptly and I’ve already received a admission letter.

But now I’m also nervous about the homework intensity! I thought 3 hours a day of classes seemed quite little and breezy, but 6 hrs of outside study a day seems really harsh! And the homework curriculum at MTC seems alot too. I hope I will be able to cope. I can speak some Mandarin and know Pinyin, but I have absolutely no experience in writing Chinese characters.

In any case, I shall update my experiences at CLD here when I start :slight_smile:[/quote]
How is it at CLD? I’m also considering CLD next to NCCU.

Hi,

I’m quite happy with CLD @ Taida, I got a really good teacher and classroom, and I learn lots more with less people in the class. In the 1st semester my class only had 5 people incl me. The 2nd semester there are 6 of us.

I didn’t study at MTC Shida, but I’ve been told by staff at CLD that Shida is a much more social sort of place where there are cultural activities and lots more people in the class so you have more opportunities to socialize and make friends. CLD is more focused academically.

They further said that both institutes use the same text books, but for folks at a Beginners Level, CLD is a better choice as you get to learn faster and pick up more with less people in the class. But when it comes to Intermediate and Advanced, both CLD and Shida are fine and just depends on what kind of environment you prefer. Because at that level, you should have basic knowledge of the language and characters to be able to pick-up stuff even in a large classroom. When you are a beginner - a smaller class is better so you have a more personalized learning environment with your teacher.

As for CLD at NCCU, I don’t know anything about it so I can’t comment. Sorry.

Hi!
I’m going to CLD@NTU this fall. I was just wondering, other than the education (which i’m not too worried about, I know it will be good!!) how was the environment?? Were the other students receptive to going out and exploring Taiwan together?? This will be my first time going anywhere by myself…so i’m a bit nervous about this. I really don’t want to just go to taiwan and study…i really want to go and explore different parts of the country!!

What scholarship were you on at ICLP? It seems the Huayu is really the only option–but $725USD per month is like peanuts compared to the $13,000USD tuition. Thoughts? Options? Your experience?

[quote=“Edaren”]I’ve done ICLP, Shi-Da, and NCCU.

NCCU was probably the weakest of the three, although I think it had a lot to do with my teacher, she was really lazy, barely assigned any work, and just had us “discuss” in class why she just sat on her ass. Thank god she was so pretty or I would have reported her. I think it’s really hit-or-miss with teachers there, but is pretty well run otherwise.

Shi-Da was quite nice, and beats everyone hands down for the amount of students taking Chinese there. In my class I was the only Westerner, all others being Japanese, Korean, and Indonesian. Had a good teacher, and classmates were good. The class size was under 10, the same for NCCU. One of the underrated advantages of these two schools is the amount of diversity amongst students. Due to all of the non-Western learners, Chinese becomes the lingua franca not because of some “language pledge” but because of necessity. It gives beginning and intermediate learners plenty of speaking practice without having to worry about making mistakes, although sometimes it can reinforce poor grammatical habits.

ICLP at NTU is my favorite. There is a 4 person cap on students, the summer semester has 2 regular classes and a one one-on-one class, the other semesters have 3 regular classes and one one-on-one. However, they are pretty flexible if you are there for the year, and almost all of the classes can be tailored to your needs, as long as you can find other students to take the class with you. The teachers are fantastic and absolutely make the experience. ICLP is known in the Chinese-teaching world as a top-tier institution, and it attracts some of the best teachers around. They also have a rigorous hiring policy from what I understand, and it reflects in the teaching staff. Students are generally grad level or higher, although from what I understand they are attracting more and more undergrads, and have begun teaching lower level Chinese classes, although it was initially only intended for advanced students. The tuition is quite high, even by American standards, but a lot of people come on scholarships (I certainly did). The biggest issue is that probably 90% of the students are American, which makes it hard to get Chinese speaking practice, although there is a language pledge when in school, and it is often strictly enforced.

All in all I think it really depends on what your needs are as a student of Chinese. If you’re looking to learn but don’t want to dedicate all of your waking hours to it, Shi-Da, NCCU, and most of the other places are better suited for you. If you absolutely must learn as much Chinese as you possible can in a short period of time (read: strong masochistic tendencies), then I would go with ICLP.[/quote]

[quote=“Ed en Vadrouille”]I thought i could share a message i sent to a friend on the same topic:

I choose NTU for a few reasons: It is close to my place, their admissions were more flexible, It is the “local Harvard” and hence has the best students in the country (that should make for interesting people), it has the fewest people per class, and I am looking to learn quickly. Plus they have a really nice sport center.

I am taking the 180 hours program. That means 2 hours 3 days a week, and 4 hours 2 days a week.

[/quote]

Hey there!
Do I understand that right? Does NTU offer a Programm where you can only take classes 2 or 3 times a week? That would be great!

I just arrived about 10 days ago in TW and still trying to figure out, to which school I should go for studying chinese - beginners level and mostly focussing on conversation…

[quote=“Wei-tschie”]
Hey there!
Do I understand that right? Does NTU offer a Programm where you can only take classes 2 or 3 times a week? That would be great!

I just arrived about 10 days ago in TW and still trying to figure out, to which school I should go for studying Chinese - beginners level and mostly focussing on conversation…[/quote]
In regards to the hours, it depends if you need your classes to support your visa.
If yes, it cannot be less than 3 hours per day, 5 days a week. Shi-Da is going around this rule by offering 2hrs a day 5 days a week, and by requiring people that they stay at least 5 hours a week in a study room for “personal studies”. As for choosing which university, I’ve already described the different choices in the thread that you read.
If no, then there are plenty of offers around, but I don’t really know them.

In regards to the 180 hours program I mentionned, I forgot to mention this was at NCKU, in Tainan (I’ve now edited my post).

Hi everyone,

I have been reading about the CLD program at NTU and am interested in applying, unfortunately I can’t seem to find it listed on the NTU’s website. The only program I can find is the ICLP.

If someone could link me to the correct website or let me know if the CLD is no longer offered I would be very pleased!

homepage.ntu.edu.tw/~cld222/en/about.htm <----this is specifically for the CLD

ntulcoffice.liberal.ntu.edu.tw/course-en.htm#2 <-------thats just for the language center

I just applied so I sure hope it’s still open! =)

:slight_smile:

Thanks!! Not sure why I couldn’t find it, haha, it does look familiar though. I’ll bookmark it for sure.