I have been offered an interview at CECI Taiwan for a position in their Overseas Business Centre. The title on offer is unclear as of yet, but my role will be completing tasks such as Contract Management/Administration and Project/Document Control. A little bit about myself, I recently graduated from The University of Western Australia with a Bachelor of Civil Engineering, having done vacation work (or internship? dunno what you guys call it over there) with Monadelphous (tier 1 contractor in australia) working as a Project Engineer (similiar to a construction engineer [overseeing construction projects]). I have citizenship’s in Australia, Taiwan and USA and my Mandarin skills are somewhat OK, I can read about 90% of common characters and can speak at a colloquial level having spent roughly 10 years of my childhood in Taiwan (Almost finished year 6).
My query is concerning salary because I have been informed that this will be a topic of discussion during the face to face interview so as to work out a “mutual plan or package”. Now I am completely oblivious of market conditions in Taiwan, but in Australia grads can expect anywhere between 60-90k (AUD) for a graduate contract plus loading and bonuses on top. That being said I know it is highly unlikely I will get anything close to those figures in Taiwan and so begs the question, how much should I be negotiating for and why?
For more information about my qualifications and experience, I have attached a link to my resume below.
Thanks in advance, any response is appreciated.
Cliffs:
Recently graduate with civil eng degree
Job interview with CECI in Taipei
Attached is my resume for your perusal (dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/655 … RUMOSA.pdf)
Solid but not great mandarin skills (小六成度)
How much salary should I ask for and why?
I’m not the slightest bit familiar with your field, but other posts on this forum set the tone for employment in Taiwan: Recent grads from Taiwanese universities often find themselves at NT$22,000 (AUD$787) a month, whereas a salary of 35,000 is considered pretty decent. As a graduate from a foreign university, you can expect more, though I wouldn’t be surprised if you find it hard to break NT$50,000 a month. Again, just me talking on what I’ve seen with friends.
Hok: tnx for your reply, ye i’ve been in correspondence with a white dude from the company and he seems empathetic to my situation cause he said they have a HR policy of paying grads like 110-130 per hour (~20k a month) but at the same time kept reiterating hes trying to find me a better contract. with that in mind, is there some leverage for people like me during the face to face interview? why do i deserve more than say a taiwanese university grad? Would you say 35k is a safe number to start with in terms of negotiations?
Ye, im still a bit confused with what CECI does tbh, they seem like a consultancy which dabbles in EPCM (engineering, procurement, construction management). but specific to my role, the Overseas Business Centre is geared towards winning offshore contracts. if anyone has worked with, for or has been contracted by CECI or knows something about CECI, id love to hear your story.
Don’t undersell yourself. Remember that 35K a month means AUD$15,000 a year. You would spend over a month’s salary just on a plane ticket between the two countries.
Ask for double that. It can’t hurt to ask. If you start the negotiating too low, it can’t go up. And if you’re valuable enough to this company, they’ll make it work. Anything they say otherwise is just excuses.
(PS, something you should note is that Taiwanese companies give no paid vacation the first year. Literally zero days. The excuse is “We follow all relevant labor laws” and do nothing that we are not required to do.)
What issit like culturally if you oversell yourself? will they take offense and if i asked for say 50/60k to start? ye im not too sure about the ebbs and flows in the taiwanese marketplace.
i have another question regarding face to face interviews over there, issit similar to what i would expect in an interview to a grad program in a western country? or should i be prepared to be asked a very different set of questions? also does the interview get conducted in english or chinese lol?
Because most Taiwanese grads couldn’t design their way out of a paper bag. 20K/mo is mostly 20K/mo too much, considering what the company gets back from them. It takes a few years for them to understand what “working” means.
Hokwongwei is right. They wouldn’t even be considering a foreigner unless you have something worthwhile to offer them. Think of something you’ve got that the average Taiwanease graduate doesn’t have and sell it to them; you need to make it clear how much whatever-it-is is worth in terms of revenue.
I’m a civil engineer, although I don’t work for a Taiwanese company and I don’t know how much you can expect to be paid as a graduate engineer here. However, I’d say brace yourself for a very underwhelming (financially at least) offer. Graduate salaries are generally very low here (generally NT$35k-40k per month I believe) and most graduates live at home. I think that what you suggest (50-60k) is a good place to start, and if you end up anywhere over 40k/month you’ve done well.
On a more upbeat note, I think you’ll have more fun in Taiwan on NT$40k a month than you would in Australia on a graduate salary, particularly given that you can converse with people here. Once you’ve got a few years experience there are plenty of places you can go to earn lots of money, so don’t worry too much about saving cash each month. As a graduate engineer you just need to learn as much as you possibly can. Your CV looks good and I’m sure you’ll do fine.
I agree with the advice as given. I will add that in any negotiating situation, you have to draw a firm line in your mind before you arrive, and be fully prepared to smile politely, thank them for their time, and walk away without a care in the world if they don’t meet your price. Know what you’re worth, and be prepared to explain why, but don’t defend yourself. If you say you’re worth NT$100,000/month, they ask why and you tell them, and they follow up with hostility, then kindly excuse yourself. Remember that Taiwan is densely populated and most people go to college, so firms have tremendous leverage in most negotiating situations. If they’re interested in you at all, there is a good reason and they’re likely willing to pay you.
In most situations, it’s reasonable to take your minimal acceptable salary and ask for 10 or 20% beyond that, to give a bit of negotiating room. In this case, however, I say shoot for the stars. AU$60,000/year is NT$1,667,400/year. Monthly that’s AU$5,000 to NT$138,950. So I say, ask for NT$100,000/month. When they’re utterly shocked at the high price, explain that NT$100,000/month is nearly 40% less than the lowest salary you would expect in Australia. You recognize that you’ll have to accept a lower salary in Taiwan than Australia, but state that you consider a 40% drop more than reasonable. In reality, be willing to settle somewhere in the NT$70,000-$NT90,000 range. Personally, if I were in your shoes, I would refuse to go below NT$80,000.
Hi. I am Civil Engineer also and now living with my Taiwanese wife for couple of months after my recent assignment in the middle-east. I tried to find engineering design & construction related jobs here but UNFORTUNATELY, most companies who called me didn’t speak/understand English that much. I have already ARC & freedom to choose where/what job I want but I realized that whatever professional experiences I had, it’s useless when I tried to sell it to local companies here. I did research on branch offices of multi-national engineering companies here but I still ended up with shit/stupid HR who don’t understand English, as much as my English CV. Until now, I’m still trying to try my luck in 104.com.tw job bank site & sent continuously my English CV. I’m feeling frustrated & discouraged most of the times of my stay here coz I can’t feel I’m worthy as a professional engineer. I have other options that i’m seeing in case my plans didn’t work… it’s either I accept factory jobs or work abroad again. Haayyy… it’s so nice to live here in Taiwan, but to work, it SUCKS!
Bro, why don’t you just stay & work there in Australia? If i were you, I will just stay there & enjoy the well-compensated job there. Like what I told to my Taiwanese wife, if there’s a good opportunity that opens to me in Oz or NZ, I will really grab it & I will bring you with me.
As an electronic engineer from your country (AU) I can give you this one tip. If a non-multinational Taiwanese employer offers you a salary in an interview which sounds a little low, but they promise you until they’re blue in the face that there will definitely, definitely be a raise for you later on; it will either never come, or will be very delayed and be far less than they originally promised, with lots of excuses. This happened to me, even though I’ve been repeatedly acknowledged as being one of the hardest workers in the office.
Make sure the price is right before you start your gig, and don’t accept any promises.
To be noted, as an ARC holder, you need to have the company provide a statement that your salary (gross) is TWD 48K a month or more in order for you to get a proper work permit as a professional.
The salary will never increase after the negotiation so depends on your condition/situation/nego skills, build the price during interview, not after…
Good luck mate…
[quote=“bumclouds”]As an electronic engineer from your country (AU) I can give you this one tip. If a non-multinational Taiwanese employer offers you a salary in an interview which sounds a little low, but they promise you until they’re blue in the face that there will definitely, definitely be a raise for you later on; it will either never come, or will be very delayed and be far less than they originally promised, with lots of excuses. This happened to me, even though I’ve been repeatedly acknowledged as being one of the hardest workers in the office.
Make sure the price is right before you start your gig, and don’t accept any promises.[/quote]
Holy shit! This is really disappointing. Verbal promises are really hard to believe. :fume:
And one more thing. Remember to ask if there is a probation period (試用期), and if so, how long it will be.
Make sure they don’t try to spring that on you later on (“oh no, didn’t we tell you?”).
They aren’t officially allowed to offer probation to foreigners (on work permit its a full contract or nothing), but they still do as a way of screwing some money out of your paycheck
(because you get paid less during probation). Well for a Taiwanese probation is fully legal.
Our job is to protect our fellow forumosa.com users and warn them of the traps we’ve already stepped on.
A lot of Taiwanese bosses are like smiling assassins. Some will even tell you there are lots of bad companies in Taiwan and “we are not one of those”. You might think you are sitting at a table opposite somebody who is friendly, open, trustworthy and honest. Be wary that this is a show they put on often.
Thanks for all your responses, i hardly check this site, but i’ll give you guys an update on what happened incase someone is interested. As it turned out because I have a Taiwanese citizenship, they say its necessarily to fulfill military duties. I declined the offer of a long term role as it required me to do my national service and i really couldnt be bothered.
I also interviewed for a few other really small firms and a similar sentiment was conveyed. So i just spent some in Hualien as originally intended with family and came back to OZ.
All in all my thoughts on the Taiwanese workplace practices/traditions is that it is utter nonsensical bullshit. I mean, i am also an american and australian national, but my status as a taiwanese means i have to jump through some other bogus hoops? I mean i dont think i should be penalised for being Taiwanese, but apparently so lol. i would have been happy to live as an ARC in taiwan, begs the question if had i told them i was only american/australian, would the outcome be different? i feel like they prolly just scamming me for lower wage? :S
no offense to the people who have done national service. i just dont want to waste a year of my life doing something which doesnt really contribute to my professional aspirations. also dont want to sound like a sulk, cause i truly do love taiwan, having been raised there and all. but our workplace practices leaves a lot more to be desired.
You are not going to get 80-100K per month in Taiwan PERIOD. Dont mention how much you would get in Australia, because they do not give a shit.They will just ask you to go home if you mention it… If you want to come to work here in Taiwan then do it because you want a different experience, do not come here if you want to earn a decent salary, because it is not going to happen.
