Class having difficulty with Prepositions

I occurred a problem while teaching an intermediate GEPT prep. class with junior-high students, and I was wondering if any of you have any advice. The class understands basic prepositions usage, for date and location, but their extended useage of prepositions is terrible. I talked to my girlfriend, who is also Taiwanese, and she said that this is a common problem in Taiwan. I slowed down the teaching for that segment of class, and taught them that prepositions only take the gerund-ing form of the verb, and had them identify prepositions by asking them some wh-questions: How do you eat pizza? Do you use a fork and knife or do you use your hands?; When do you eat dinner?, Where do you like to watch TV? The book simply skims over the subject, and I’d like to do something to help them gain a better understanding. I gave them a writing assignment of 200 words to use 15 prepositions from the book in a story about a fox being chased through the woods by a dog. I allowed them to change the theme of the story, but the requirement of 15 prepositions was static. I’m not sure this is good enough however to give them the understanding they need. If you have a good resource or advice concerning the subject, I’d really appreciate it.

Thanks,

J_D

Firstly, you encountered a problem. A problem occurred.

Secondly, I don’t know if this is what you’re looking for, but you could do a search on your own. I got this:

localschooldirectory.com/inc … lan_id/473

I think maybe you could do a little brushing up yourself, just based on how you described your teaching. I’m trying to be rude. I admire you for asking for advice. Good luck!!

[quote=“housecat”]Firstly, you encountered a problem. A problem occurred.

Secondly, I don’t know if this is what you’re looking for, but you could do a search on your own. I got this:

localschooldirectory.com/inc … lan_id/473

I think maybe you could do a little brushing up yourself, just based on how you described your teaching. I’m trying to be rude. I admire you for asking for advice. Good luck!![/quote]

I haven’t been insulted by random strangers in a while, so thank you for that.

Thanks for the website. If it were for my beginner students, I think it would be fine. However as I mentioned prior, I am teaching a junior-high level class that is studying for the intermediate GEPT exam. So I am working with prepositions such as: within, throughout, against, etc… They are perfectly fine identifying the simple prepositions of place and time.

[quote=“jason242”][quote=“housecat”]Firstly, you encountered a problem. A problem occurred.

Secondly, I don’t know if this is what you’re looking for, but you could do a search on your own. I got this:

localschooldirectory.com/inc … lan_id/473

I think maybe you could do a little brushing up yourself, just based on how you described your teaching. I’m trying to be rude. I admire you for asking for advice. Good luck!![/quote]

I haven’t been insulted by random strangers in a while, so thank you for that.

Thanks for the website. If it were for my beginner students, I think it would be fine. However as I mentioned prior, I am teaching a junior-high level class that is studying for the intermediate GEPT exam. So I am working with prepositions such as: within, throughout, against, etc… They are perfectly fine identifying the simple prepositions of place and time.[/quote]

You’re welcome, but as I mentioned I wasn’t trying to be rude. I found the site I found. You could search in the same way and find someting more appropriate. Really, I’m just trying to help and no one else has jumped in, so I guess you can take it or leave it, dude.

Don’t confuse adverbs and prepositions and gerunds with continuous verb forms. You seem a bit confused about the grammar you are teaching. Try and get hold of ‘Practical English Usage’ by Swan. When I was starting out, it helped a lot to straighten things out in my mind and to think about what I was doing from the students’ standpoint.

Bunch of resources on this website: eslflow.com/prepositionlessonplans.html

The essay that you set won’t help them much, if they have to do a task using words they don’t understand to practise the words they, erm, don’t know. Contextualise the task so that it shows them how to use the words. Make some exercises that they can do that will exemplify them and after they have done that, then they can attemt a ‘freer’ task such as an essay.

Also, try to break them down into groups. You can’t teach ‘prepositions’ in a couple of classes, any more than you can teach ‘adverbs’ or ‘adjectives’. Don’t overestimate their level.

[quote=“Buttercup”]Don’t confuse adverbs and prepositions and gerunds with continuous verb forms. You seem a bit confused about the grammar you are teaching. Try and get hold of ‘Practical English Usage’ by Swan. When I was starting out, it helped a lot to straighten things out in my mind and to think about what I was doing from the students’ standpoint.

Bunch of resources on this website: eslflow.com/prepositionlessonplans.html

The essay that you set won’t help them much, if they have to do a task using words they don’t understand to practise the words they, erm, don’t know. Contextualise the task so that it shows them how to use the words. Make some exercises that they can do that will exemplify them and after they have done that, then they can attemt a ‘freer’ task such as an essay.

Also, try to break them down into groups. You can’t teach ‘prepositions’ in a couple of classes, any more than you can teach ‘adverbs’ or ‘adjectives’. Don’t overestimate their level.[/quote]

I have no problem confusing present progressive with gerunds, although I can see where you would think I was. My intention was that prepositions are necessary to illustrate sentences such as - The dog chased the fox through the woods; the fox hopped over the log, hiding among the brambles; Climbing up the tree, the fox hid cleverly while the dog down below, angrily sniffed the dense thicket of grass. That’s my intension. And no, I don’t expect them to use the exact words, I am using here. Those are just examples that come to the top of my head.

Housecat, please reread your posts. Nothing personally, but you need to proofread your posts as well.

[quote=“housecat”][quote=“jason242”][quote=“housecat”]Firstly, you encountered a problem. A problem occurred.

Secondly, I don’t know if this is what you’re looking for, but you could do a search on your own. I got this:

localschooldirectory.com/inc … lan_id/473

I think maybe you could do a little brushing up yourself, just based on how you described your teaching. I’m trying to be rude. I admire you for asking for advice. Good luck!![/quote]

I haven’t been insulted by random strangers in a while, so thank you for that.

Thanks for the website. If it were for my beginner students, I think it would be fine. However as I mentioned prior, I am teaching a junior-high level class that is studying for the intermediate GEPT exam. So I am working with prepositions such as: within, throughout, against, etc… They are perfectly fine identifying the simple prepositions of place and time.[/quote]

You’re welcome, but as I mentioned I wasn’t trying to be rude. I found the site I found. You could search in the same way and find someting more appropriate. Really, I’m just trying to help and no one else has jumped in, so I guess you can take it or leave it, dude.[/quote]

You weren’t? You said you WERE!

I’d bet that that’s why jason reacted the way he did!

Sorry to jump in…

Ha! I’m sitting here cracking up at myself! Of course I intended to write NOT trying to be rude. Sometimes I even amaze myself!

The lesson you describe is not good and you are causing trouble for your students and headaches for yourself. That’s why I, and now Buttercup, have advised you to study before you teach.

Prepositions like within, throughout, and against do not “take” verb forms.

Yes, one might say, “Teaching perpositions feels like banging my head against the wall.”

One might also say, “My back is against the wall.”

In both sentences against the wall is a prepositional phrase indepnedant of the verb.

In the first sentence, the verb is [i]feels (or feels like depending on your grammar preference). The word banging (the gerund-ing form) is not a gerund, but an adverb participle modifying the verb. Against the wall[i] modifies that participial phrase.

In the second sentence, the verb is [/i]is.[i]

Now, can you see how [/i]against[i] works with either verb?

Please just humble yourself a step or two and study up so you can save yourself and your students a couple of headaches.

*EDIT
I was typing this as your were posting, apparently. And techinically, in the first sentence Teaching is a gerund. Banging is not.

Sheesh! My four year old is pulling on me and hollering at me about scooby-do! Forgive this mess of a post!

Hey, nothing personal to you either. :smiley:

housecat+ 1. Why is this an argument? You asked for help because you don’t know how to do something. That’s fine. You received FREE help from two teachers and you are bitching about it.

I wrote what I did for your students, not for you.

I really didn’t mean to be patronising, but you have to let go of yourself a bit. Part of being a teacher is being a learner too. Your written English is not particularly accurate and the teaching that you have described sounds ineffective. If you take the money, it’s your responsibility to fix this.

Swan’s ‘Practical English Usage’ will help you with the language from the learner’s perspective.

Is it normal lately, that everyone is so full of piss and vinegar that they resort to berating one another? With your broad-sweeping generalizations, you give me a headache.

I’m sorry to have posted, at this time.

NO-ONE is berating you! I suggested a book that, if you read it, will suggest contexts for teaching prepositions and suggestions for dealing with the problems that students have with them, and also gave a link full of printable and online activities? What else do want? Lesson plans?

Check out those resources. If they aren’t useful, I can suggest some more.

Jesus H. Your manager must LOVE you.

Also for good explanations and exercises for all sorts of grammar points, see if you can get your hands on the Murphy’s books.

The blue one is intermediate level. There’s also a pre-intermediate one, which might be more what you need for this particular class (it’s red). These are not the only books by Murphy, but the most useful in general (in my opinion).

I never travel anywhere without Swan. It’s indispensible. I still remember ages ago when I did my CELTA and my tutor asked me what an adjective was and I honestly couldn’t tell him. It really helped me and I still refer to it pretty much every day.

I do feel a bit sorry for the OP. He’s asked for help about teaching prepositions and the first response he’s received has pointed out an error he made in his question and then told him he should study grammar more (while at the same time making a pretty bad typo). Come on, is this how you guys observe teachers, helping them to teach better and also build on their confidence?

I don’t know how much freedom you have to do these things. My current boss would flip out if I did this, but it is the most effective way I have seen to teach prepositions.

What you need:
2 objects (for this example, I’m going to use a toy dog and a toy house)
Paper
Red, Black and Green pencil.

Push all the desks out of the way. Have an area for the students to sit with you on the floor. The reason for this is because it’s a hands on thing, where you want the students to be focused on what you’re doing. You don’t want distractions of the books, desks, pencils, toys they brought in their bookbag that they try to sneak into class, etc.

Pick up the dog. “Sam (or whatever name), what is this?”
“A dog.”
Write on a strip of paper, in black, “a dog” and set it by the dog.
“What part of speech is ‘dog?’” (Answer: a noun)

Pick up the house. “Alex, what is this?”
“A house.”
Write on a strip of paper, in black, “a house” and set it by the house.
“What part of speech is ‘house?’” (Answer: a noun)

In red, right “put” and in green right “near.”

Now, put the sentence together. “Put the dog near the house. Susan, can you put the dog NEAR the house?”

“Good. Now, we’re going to change this green word. What other words can you think of?”

Have the students think of other words. Write them down and have them put the dog (in, under, on top of, next to, far from…you might even get “through”) the house.

After several suggestions and turns doing this, go back to the idea of the two nouns. “What part of speech is ‘dog?’” “What part of speech is ‘house?’”

“All these green words are what we call prepositions. A preposition is a word that tells us how these two nouns are related to each other.” (You may have to use different wording, depending on the students).

The next thing they can do is label sentences. Print up sentences that have prepositions in it. Make up a worksheet with simple sentences like:

The dog hid under the table.

Don’t throw any new or hard words in there, as the focus right now is to understand prespositions. With that, they can draw colored symbols over them to signify noun, verb and preposition.

In Montessori, the noun is symbolized by a big black triangle. The verb is symbolized by a red circle. The preposition, since it brings two nouns together, is symbolized by a green bridge. There is a reason why those colors and shapes are used and they don’t have to understand the reason right now. But it does make labeling the sentences much more enjoyable.

Here are the labels to the 9 basic parts of speech:

Top row, with colors since it doesn’t show them well on some:
Article (light blue), adjective (dark blue), noun (black)

Middle row:
Verb (red), adverb (orange), preposition (green)

Bottom row:
Interjection (tan, I think. I forget), Pronoun (purple), Conjunction (pink)

Hope that helps!
Matt

EDIT: Students can find their own sentences in books, magazines, etc. They can write them down and label them. They can also write them on strips of paper and tear it apart to see how else they can arrange the sentences so they make sense, keeping the labels with them. They’ll begin to instinctually see how the pattern of the language goes without having to think back on what rules to follow all the time.

[quote=“tomthorne”]I never travel anywhere without Swan. It’s indispensible. I still remember ages ago when I did my CELTA and my tutor asked me what an adjective was and I honestly couldn’t tell him. It really helped me and I still refer to it pretty much every day.

I do feel a bit sorry for the OP. He’s asked for help about teaching prepositions and the first response he’s received has pointed out an error he made in his question and then told him he should study grammar more (while at the same time making a pretty bad typo). Come on, is this how you guys observe teachers, helping them to teach better and also build on their confidence?[/quote]

Yes, I made a glaring typo, but his was a syntax error. As an English teacher, he needs to be aware of such things. I wasn’t trying to be critical. He should study more for his own good and for his students. That’s not insulting, just true. And I do indeed admire him for asking for help. It’s frustrating, though, to offer advice and then get criticized for it.

And I’m infamous for my terrible spelling and regularly get flamed for it. I have a B.A. in English and have taught it for years and still can’t spell it. So, really, I do understand and am not trying to be superior. I was trying to help. And really, the idea that any teacher should have a problem with studying is just too ironic.

Why is “banging your head against a wall” an adverbial participle phrase?

I’m not great at grammar but I think it is a noun phrase. It feels like this. “This” would be a noun, wouldn’t it?

An adverb answers how, where, when, why, to what degree and under what condition questions, but nouns answer who and what questions.

I would think it answered the question: What does it feel like to teach prepositions? It feels like banging your head against a wall.

I believe adverbial phrases are things like:

Sensing danger, I hid behind the tree.

Or is it because it answers the question: How does it feel to teach prepositions?

It feels like banging your head against a wall.

I’m not really sure. It seems ambiguous. That might be because I’ve never studied grammar formally.

“Like” should probably be “as if”. It feels as if you were banging your head against a wall.

I’d be happy to be schooled in why it is an adverbial participal phrase. I won’t feel like an idiot.


Out of curiosity I looked it up. “Like” as it is used in the above sentence: “Teaching prepositions feels like banging your head against a wall” acts as a preposition to introduce a similie and is followed by a noun. That would make “banging your head against a wall” a noun phrase introduced by a gerund.

I’m still not sure because I don’t know why it was described otherwise.

What does it feel like to teach usage?

Thank you.

I’m writing a book.

It feels like wow man! Like, you know. Like, right out there.