Class singular or plural

A question for ‘qualified’ Enlish teachers. Is the word class, as in my homeroom class, singular or plural. My Taiwanese junior high nephews had a test recently and an answer was ‘The class are having lunch now.’ Now my wife and I have been teaching for about 15 years each, so she called the teacher (local). She rather patronizingly said that my wife didn’t know grammar, and that foreigners teaching here didn’t either. My wife also called the book publisher which the test was based on and pretty much got the same response. So I’m laying it before the panel; which is correct, ‘The class are having lunch now.’ or ‘The class is having lunch now.’?

Both are acceptable and the choice is based on desired emphasis. One version is more common in Brit. Eng. and one more common in Am. Eng. but I’ve forgotten which way round it is.

We had a discussion on the same topic recently. I think the noun in question in that case was “company”. Government is another good example. If you want to emphasize government as a single body, you use the singular. If you want to emphasize the fact that a government is made up of individuals, you use the plural.

It depends if you are talking about the class as a single entity or as a group of individuals.

The class is going to see a play this weekend means that the class, as a group, is going. The class are arguing very loudly means that the individuals within the class are arguing with each other (if you said the class is arguing, it would mean that the class is unified and therefore arguing with someone else or another group).

Sometimes either will do: The class is having lunch could mean that the whole class is on lunch break or that each member of the class is having something to eat.

In the UK, it is preferable to treat groups as plural (The government are …), while in the States groups are treated for the most part as singular (The government is …).

Hope that helps.

Yes, words such as this are known as collective nouns. The general rule is that collective nouns are singular in the US and plural in the UK, but there is overlap and I’ve heard both usages used by speakers from both countries.

But what an idiotic test answer. Guaranteed to confuse, and give the kids the idea that number agreement is arbitrary.

I bet the test setter didn’t use that question because he/she knew it was a special case! Probably it was a mistake really.

Assuming your school is focusing on North American English, you’re in the right. Collective nouns are used that way in Britain, but in the US that would be non-standard at best.

This has been covered already in the above posts, but this is a BrEng vs. AmEng usage issue. To generalize:

AmEng reguards group entities as single items (despite the fact that if you change the speaker from an outside source to an inside source the pronoun would have to change to “We”):
The band is on tour. ( = in an American’s mind, It is on tour.)
The class was attacked by German sex tourists. ( = AmMind, It was attacked.)

BrEng reguards group entities as plural items (despite the fact that they generally carry no final s and are therefore expectedly singular):
The band are on tour. ( = BrMind, They are on tour.)
The class were attacked by German sex tourists. ( = BrMind, They were attacked.)

There are plenty of exceptions and BrEng speakers can see the rationale behind the American way of saying things and vice versa, and once that happens people become much more likely to suddenly not know which is exactly right or why – a common state for an EFL teacher. In any case, it doesn’t hurt just mention to students that BrEng usage sounds silly to Americans and American usage arcane to Brits.

I will, however, never see the logic in pluralizing “math” to “maths” as a given. :fume:

It’s mathematics. It’s not illogical.

[quote=“Sheep-Goats”]This has been covered already in the above posts, but this is a BrEng vs. AmEng usage issue. To generalize:

AmEng reguards group entities as single items (despite the fact that if you change the speaker from an outside source to an inside source the pronoun would have to change to “We”):
The band is on tour. ( = in an American’s mind, It is on tour.)
The class was attacked by German sex tourists. ( = AmMind, It was attacked.)

BrEng reguards group entities as plural items (despite the fact that they generally carry no final s and are therefore expectedly singular):
The band are on tour. ( = BrMind, They are on tour.)
The class were attacked by German sex tourists. ( = BrMind, They were attacked.)

There are plenty of exceptions and BrEng speakers can see the rationale behind the American way of saying things and vice versa, and once that happens people become much more likely to suddenly not know which is exactly right or why – a common state for an EFL teacher. In any case, it doesn’t hurt just mention to students that BrEng usage sounds silly to Americans and American usage arcane to Brits.

I will, however, never see the logic in pluralizing “math” to “maths” as a given. :fume:[/quote]

So, in the States, if this class is still having lunch, do we say that it’s eating its starter/s? Or would we say that the class are eating their starters? What if the students were putting on their coats? is the class putting on its coat?

It’s not BrEng v. AmEng; it’s simply a matter of deciding if the class is acting as a whole / are acting as individuals.

If you have one class, it is singular. If you have two classes, they are plural. If you have three classes you are making more money than the teacher with only two classes.

She rather patronizingly said that my wife didn’t know grammar, and that foreigners teaching here didn’t either. My wife also called the book publisher which the test was based on and pretty much got the same response. So I’m laying it before the panel; which is correct, ‘The class are having lunch now.’ or ‘The class is having lunch now.’?[/quote]

Just goes to show you that the Taiwanese know much more about English than native speakers. After all, If they are right, how can we possibly be wrong?

I would like to submit as evidence the following excerpts from The Chicago Manual of Style:

[b]

FWIW Fowler’s agrees, to an extent.

In this particular case, both would be acceptable - the individuals that make up the class are each having lunch, but the class as a whole is also having lunch, so it’s just a matter of approach.

Also interesting, if tangential, is that Fowler’s seems to put paid to the “one is preferred in AE, the other in BE” thing.

I thought my post was prettier.

Student in class writing an answer to the question “Has your national soccer team ever won the world cup?” (Get together 4, unit 10)

His answer: “No, they have never won the world cup.”

He even told me why, and he’s only 12. :bravo: :bravo: :bravo: :bravo:

Fuck, he must have a good teacher.

But you used the singular to ask the question and he replied in the plural. The singular is correct in this instance (in Am. English, anyway).

Who is this kid’s teacher? :unamused: :wink:

Hmmm…

My team has won.
They have won.
Have you heard about England? It’s won the world cup.
Have you heard about England? They’ve won the world cup.
England has won.
England have won.

All seems fair to me, except for referring to the team as ‘it’ which just sounds odd - but only in this case.
It’s a big team - sounds OK to me.
They’re a big team - Ouch
It’s a good team - not sure
They’re a good team - sounds OK, unless we’re talking about the English cricket side.

Perhaps it makes a difference what tense you’re using too?

In any case, I’m not going to tell a kid that he’s wrong for a gramatically correct response that successfully answers the question.

In any case, all the students in the class have got the hang of the present perfect, the class has got the hang of the present perfect. Or should it be the class have got the hang of the present perfect? Does it change if we refer to the whole class?*

*Smart-arse comments about “they have gotten” are a)suitable for another thread, and b)wrong in any case. :uk: