Commie subs outnumber US, expect 3:1 by 2025

[quote]A former senior US naval officer warned Monday that within 20 years, China will have the ability to wreak havoc on US naval forces going to Taiwan’s defense against a Chinese attack.
Such a defeat of the US navy by a Chinese force “will ruin America as we know it today,” Vice Admiral Al Konetzni said. [/quote]

Eek. No more Oprah?

Seriously, how big a threat is this? Does anyone here understand the US Navy’s capabilities vis-

In my opinion, the guy’s assessment is alarmist. The US now has in service:
50 Los Angeles Class SSNs
3 Seawolf Class SSNs
1 Virginia Class SSN and 5 more already ordered

15 Ohio Class SSBNs
4 Ohio Class SSGNs

All of these boats are far superior to even the newest boats that the PRC is building. At present, they have:

5 Han Class SSNs (a crap boat that’s dangerous to operate and very noisy)
4 Russian built Kilo diesel electrics. These are good submarines and they will probably be getting more. They would pose a limited yet very real threat to US and ROC ships.
2 or 3 Yuan Class (039A) diesel electrics.
5 Song Class (039) diesel electrics.
50 or so Ming/Romeo Class diesel electrics
1 Type 093 SSN
1 Xia Class SSBN (complete junk)

The Ming/Romeo boats are old junk. They would stand no chance in modern warfare. The Yuan and Song boats are domestically developed and probably not too bad, but nowhere near as good as the Kilos. The new Type 093 SSN may turn out to be a solidly built, safe boat, but it is still quite far behind any SSNs the west has built since the 1970s. Sites like Global Security claim it is roughly equivalent to the Soviet Victor III, which is now fairly dated technology. I imagine they’ll build a lot of the 039 types and eventually develop them to something as good as the Kilos. Rather than build a lot of the 093 SSNs, they might just build a few, try to learn as much as they can about building and commisioning such boats, and then put their resources into the next generation of SSN rather than build a lot of the 093s; it would already have a difficult enough time dealing with its US counterparts.

At present and for the next couple of decades, I doubt the PRC will have anything that could successfully challenge the submarines and ASW systems currently deployed by the USN. They can’t even build boats that could challenge the Los Angeles class boats that started entering service in the late 70s. However, the US has definitely slowed down on submarine building. Even though the Los Angeles boats are currently far superior to what the Chinese are building, they are not being replaced one for one by the Seawolf and Virginia boats. The mainlanders won’t have a qualitative advantage for decades, but unless current trends change, they may be able to send more submarines to war than the US in a couple of decades.

For further info, this author offers a break-down.

By Jeff Head - Last Update: July 2005

[quote]ARLINGTON, Va., Aug. 24 - The independent commission reviewing a Defense Department plan to shut or shrink hundreds of military bases nationwide voted Wednesday not to close the oldest American submarine base, in Groton, Conn., and the historic Portsmouth Naval Shipyard in Kittery, Me.

The commission’s chairman, Anthony J. Principi, said the Pentagon’s recommendations on the two installations were overturned because of uncertainty about whether the Navy, which is shrinking, will need to grow in response to China’s naval buildup[/quote]

It’s good to see they’re taking the threat seriously.

[quote=“Dragonbones”]It’s good to see they’re taking the threat seriously.[/quote]Dragonbones -
The US is. Quite seriously.
Its just that the memos haven’t been leaked to the NYTimes.


[quote=“TainanCowboy”]The US is. Quite seriously.
Its just that the memos haven’t been leaked to the NYTimes.

I’m quite interested in developments involving the US shifting military power to the Pacific region to counter what I see as a very real, growing Chinese threat. I look forward to sharing info with you on this!

Why that would be called a “target rich” environment.

Notice all of the emphasis on brown or green water operation as opposed to traditional blue water - I think that shows that the US is taking these merging threats seriously

I fully agree with Jive Turkey’s assessment. I don’t see it as a very serious threat. BTW, we’re only taking about submarine vs. submarine here, but the US also has far-superior anti-submarine warfare (ASW) technology and capabilities in terms of planes and surface ships that the PRC Navy can’t even come close to. The PRC Navy is lacking quite seriously in ASW capabilities, hence their acquiring of the Russian Ka-26 ASW helicopter, although that’s hardly enough. They need much more sophisticated ASW technology with their surface fleet.

Also, don’t forget that if a regional war were to break out here, it’s becoming more and more likely that Japan would become involved, which would add their submarines, as well as highly-advanced ASW planes and surface ships into the fray.

Anyhow, subs or not … at this moment we’re feeding the lion that one day will eat us … alive.

Isn’t it rediculous that we are alowing the Chinese building up their Army, Navy and airforces, balistic missiles etc … all with money they earn from us. :astonished:

It’s shocking :s

Damn those franchise-busting Subber bastards. Subway all the way!