Confused About Teaching Kindy ... Again

[Hamletintaiwan]

[quote=“Hamletintaiwan”][quote=“divea”][quote=“BigJohn”][quote=“divea”]
I got out of the door in 30 seconds flat (and it’s no mean feat with 2 kiddos under 4). Got the Husband’s Local colleague to call up the education department and report the darned school. Gave them the Husband’s work address, phone number, my name and address and phone number. They asked for a written report, did that, and nothing. Not one enquiry, nothing. The school is still thriving.
[/quote]

How do you know there wasn’t an inquiry of some sort, that the school managed to pass?[/quote]
Well if there was, it was a sham. With foreign teachers in plain view, A huge famous school like that, the only montessori kindy in Neihu, and the pole, no call backs to us, it would’ve been a sham. Besides, I meant, no one called me to enquire about why I am complaining to the Education Department. Nothing. Anyways, my point in revealing the story to the OP was, that it is illegal but they have loop holes or a sliding pole![/quote]

What exactly is illegal?
That they are foreigners?
That they are in plain view?
That they use a strange door to exit the place?

I don’t know if you speak any second language. If you do and you had to acquire this later on in life, you probably know that it is almost impossible to become as perfect as a native speaker.

Till the age of 8 month, infants are universal listeners. This window then closes and can’t be opened again. So do many other abilities for acquiring language skills.
It is scientifically proven that such young learners use the same region of the brain for their first and second language. This window closes at very young age also.

If a parent decides to make use of these abilities, they should have the options to do so. And it should not be a thing for the rich who can pay for an overseas nanny.

It’s the kindergartens that can pool the money and share one “nanny”.
Personally, I think the government should not have to decide this. What education the parents want their kids to receive is the parent’s business only. In the end, they are the once paying the bills.

Still, when a kindergarten advertises itself as a Montessori kindy, they should follow their concept for the biggest part of the day. I don’t see how using English could get in the way, though.

Sorry for adding this a little late.

This is from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montessori_education

[quote]Sensitive periods: Montessori also observed periods of special sensitivity to particular stimuli during this time which she called the “sensitive periods”. In Montessori education, the classroom environment responds to these periods by making appropriate materials and activities available while the periods are active in the young child. She identified the following periods and their durations:[12]

    * [color=#4000FF]acquisition of language—from birth to around six years old[/color]
    * order—from around one to three years old
    * sensory refinement—from birth to around four years old
    * interest in small objects—from around 18 months to three years old
    * social behavior—from around two and a half to four years old

[/quote][/quote]

I feel being ignored!

[quote=“touduke”]Lots of kindergartens I have checked employ qualified staff and IMO[color=#FF0000] it is a good idea that hiring of foreigners as English teachers is illegal.[/color] Don’t listen to jimipresley, he usually has no idea what he is talking about. Case in point his contribution here.
[/quote]

After ignoring me, what’s your argument here?

[quote=“touduke”]
My son goes to a Montessori kindergarten. [color=#FF0000]It’s not expensive and there are no foreigners teaching English[/color].[/quote]

I am glad that you found what you were looking for. So why don’t you let other people peruse whatever suits their fancy?

[Bu_Lai_En]

This topic comes up sometimes and there’s so much disinformation about it, especially the claim that it is illegal for all foreigners to teach kindy, or that it is illegal to teach English to children under six. There is no law against either of these. If anyone claims otherwise, ask them to show you the law.

Here are the facts:

The MOE doesn’t like kindies teaching English to children under 6. Their general guidelines are that it should be limited to lesssons which take up less than half a day, but not immersion English instruction. Schools that break these regulations could fail to have their licenses renewed (in theory, after warnings).

Foreigners can’t get an ARC to teach kindy, and are not allowed to work in a kindy or the kindy department of a buxiban. They could lose their ARC or even get deported if caught.

Foreginers on a JPRV (or as far as I know APRC or working holiday visa) are not specifically proscribed against teaching kindy in the same way as ARC holders.

BUT all teaching kindergarten staff, whether foreign or local, or staff working in the kindergarten departments of schools registered as buxibans, have to be certified (I am unsure of the qualification/certification details) in some way by the MOE to teach kindergarten (to teach them anything, not just English). Of course most schools flout this rule to some extent with their local teachers. If the school is caught hiring uncertified teachers they may also have trouble with their licence (again after warnings).

Well, I may just be another one with the ‘facts’ but this is based on ten years of teaching with a JFRV, enquiries to police, labor department, NIA and MOE. I’ve had the police come in to kindergarten when I was teaching. My boss has researched it thoroughly, and I have checked the laws. Don’t claim that there is a law against foreigners teaching English to kindergarten students unless you can actually show us the law - they’re all availbale online in English

[bismarck]

@touduke

Lots of kindergartens I have checked employ qualified staff and IMO it is a good idea that hiring of foreigners as English teachers is illegal.

You, like any other poster, are entitled to your opinion. No problem there. But I’d be interested to know why you think it’s a good idea. Especially seeing as how I also have a four year old in a local kindy with Taiwanese teachers “teaching” him "English 4 days a week for two hours each time, and a native English speaker only getting a paltry one day a week for two hours with my boy and his class.

Hence why I cringe when he comes home with gems like:

1. I want to go the school.
2. Teenkle teenkle leetre tar…

I’d rather he not get any English instruction at kindy then, rather than have a non-native speaker balls up his grammar and pronunciation. Sadly, that’s not an option, because they have English everyday from 9:30 to 11:30.

[touduke]

I don’t think it is a good idea when kids learn English in a Kindy, that’s it.
IMO it’s better if they learn Chinese and Taiwanese because those languages matter most.
Let them learn their 2 languages first. In this context I am against foreigners teaching English.

Of course in most cases a native speaker can teach English much better than a Taiwanese English teacher, but that was not the question at hand (at least not in the way I understand the situation).

I’d rather he not get any English instruction at kindy then, rather than have a non-native speaker balls up his grammar and pronunciation. Sadly, that’s not an option, because they have English everyday from 9:30 to 11:30.

I agree, exactly! Why on earth do you send your son to a facility where he has to learn English? It’s mind-boggling.
That’s not an option? Why don’t you look for a kindergarten without English instruction?

[jimipresley]

@touduke

Why don’t you look for a kindergarten without English instruction?

Maybe he WANTS his kid to learn English as well as Chinese?

[Gao_Bohan]

@Bu Lai En

The MOE doesn’t like kindies teaching English to children under 6. Their general guidelines are that it should be limited to lesssons which take up less than half a day, but not immersion English instruction. Schools that break these regulations could fail to have their licenses renewed (in theory, after warnings).

I’m a bit confused. Does the MOE issue regulations (presumably authorized by federal statutes?) to prevent children under 6 from being taught in an English immersion environment, regardless of the nationality of the teacher? Or do the regulations only prevent foreigners from obtaining ARC based on teaching kindergarten, so these arrests/deportations we always hear about are basically visa violations? In other words, is the crime using English as the language of instruction all day long, so that even an ROC national could be arrested for doing so, or is the crime working at a kindergarten in violation of visa restrictions?

[bismarck]

@touduke

I don’t think it is a good idea when kids learn English in a Kindy, that’s it.

Ok, so no real reason. At least, nothing founded upon scientific research, linguistic theory, or even experience.

@touduke

[color=#FF0000]IMO[/color] it’s better if they learn Chinese and Taiwanese

In your opinion then… See above.

@touduke

because those languages matter most.

Again, just an opinion. And what with concepts like democracy, freedom of choice etc, you’re entitled to that. But I’m also entitled to mine. I don’t agree, because I don’t think they “matter most”, and there’s no linguistic reason why a young child cannot learn two, three or more languages to fluency.

@touduke

Let them learn their 2 languages first. In this context I am against foreigners teaching English.

You’re free to do what you want with your kids, I want the freedom to choose for mine and in what I as their parent deem to be in their best interests also. And if you are really going to try and tell me Taiwanese matters more than English, then I’m going to LMAO.
Besides, the idea that they (children) can’t learn English in addition to their mother-tongues (Mandarin and Taiwanese in Taiwan) is laughable and flies in the face of all linguistic research. Apart from the fact that even if you didn’t want your child to learn Mandarin in Taiwan, that would only be possible if you kept the child away from the entire volume of society and home schooled the child from school going age. And even that wouldn’t work if the child has a Taiwanese parent, because the mother/father and/or grandparents are definitely going to be speaking Taiwanese and/or Mandarin to him/her.

As a parent of a mixed child/mixed children in Taiwan, I’m surprised you haven’t experienced this yourself.
My son is just over four years old and he’s totally fluent in Mandarin and Taiwanese. Unless we move away from Taiwan he will never lose either ability, and in fact, because of the environment and because 99% of the input he gets on a daily basis is either in Chinese or Taiwanese it will only strengthen with time.
Being a native English speaker myself, I don’t want to use my four year old as an LE partner and prefer to speak to him in English only. But even after four years, his English is light years behind either Taiwanese or Chinese and will always be so (unless we move back to an English speaking country and he is raised there and goes to school in an English speaking school). Sure, he understands everything I say 100%, but his output to me is still 70% Chinese 30% English. Why? It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure it out, much less a linguist. It’s logical. Since birth he has had 70-90% Mandarin and Taiwanese input, because we live in a Mandarin and Taiwanese speaking country where that is all almost everyone other than his father (me) speaks everyday.
During the week he may get 9 hours of sleep, two hours of dubious English lessons with a Taiwanese speaker (who obviously doesn’t speak English 100% of the time, so two hours is being generous), about two hours with me, and and eleven hours of Chinese and/or Taiwanese input. On a weekend, he possibly gets 10 hours of sleep, six hours of Chinese/Taiwanese input from granny (I’m at work, or she wants to take him somewhere) and maybe 8 hours from me and my friends (although that isn’t pure quality input, as we’re always surrounded by Taiwanese speaking to him in Chinese anyway). So, in a 7 day week the child is getting about 67 hours of pure Chinese or Taiwanese input, ten hours of dubious English input interspersed with Chinese, and about 26 hours of English input interspersed with a shit load of Chinese and Taiwanese.
It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that in any given week he is getting upwards of twice the amount of pure unadulterated Chinese and Taiwanese input than English (which isn’t pure and is interspersed with loads of Chinese and Mandarin). It’s now wonder his Chinese and Taiwanese is much better than his English, and in Taiwan will always be so.
I don’t have a problem with that, but I wish to exercise my democratic choice as his parent as to what English input he gets at school, and from whom. And I’d rather he gets 10 hours a week from a native speaker than a Taiwanese teacher.
Kindergartens aren’t government owned, they’re private institutions. Kindergarten education isn’t compulsory like elementary education is. What the child learns in kindy is the parents’ right to choose. Not yours for all of us, and not the governments either.

Send your child where you want. If you don’t want your kids to speak anything but halting accented German, that’s up to you. Afterall, you’ve already said Mandarin and Taiwanese matter more to YOU. Not to me. To me, English matters as much, if not more than Mandarin or Taiwanese, and I don’t need you, the government or anyone else subscribing to me what my kindergarten aged child can and cannot learn, nor who he is allowed to learn it from.

@touduke

Of course in most cases a native speaker can teach English much better than a Taiwanese English teacher, but that was not the question at hand (at least not in the way I understand the situation).

Perhaps. But it has a bearing on the situation.

@touduke

[quote]I’d rather he not get any English instruction at kindy then, rather than have a non-native speaker balls up his grammar and pronunciation. Sadly, that’s not an option, because they have English everyday from 9:30 to 11:30.

I agree, exactly! Why on earth do you send your son to a facility where he has to learn English? It’s mind-boggling.[/quote]
It’s not mind-boggling at all. It’s quite logical. I’m a native English speaker. I’d like my son to be able to speak English in as good a fashion as possible. Hopefully at native or near native speaker level. Also, he goes to the same kindy as where I teach buxiban, so I get a 50% discount, which is pretty useful for a single father.

@touduke

That’s not an option? Why don’t you look for a kindergarten without English instruction?

I don’t want that option. I want him to learn English, but I want him to learn English from a native speaker, not someone who cocks up half the time and only thinks they can speak well. But thanks to a short-sighted government who makes decisions based on dubious opinions totally unfounded in all of Linguistic research, we aren’t allowed to decide what and who our kids can learn from.

I don’t know of a single Taiwanese child who spent their kindergarten years aged 2/3 to 7 in an immersion English kindy with only English all day who has ever had a problem with Chinese or Taiwanese. The ones that I know who did that are trilingual. Not mono or bilingual with a smattering of Engrish.

[cfimages]

@Gao Bohan

[quote=“Bu Lai En”]The MOE doesn’t like kindies teaching English to children under 6. Their general guidelines are that it should be limited to lesssons which take up less than half a day, but not immersion English instruction. Schools that break these regulations could fail to have their licenses renewed (in theory, after warnings).

I’m a bit confused. Does the MOE issue regulations (presumably authorized by federal statutes?) to prevent children under 6 from being taught in an English immersion environment, regardless of the nationality of the teacher? Or do the regulations only prevent foreigners from obtaining ARC based on teaching kindergarten, so these arrests/deportations we always hear about are basically visa violations? In other words, is the crime using English as the language of instruction all day long, so that even an ROC national could be arrested for doing so, or is the crime working at a kindergarten in violation of visa restrictions?[/quote]

Not sure if this’ll make it clearer or not but…

A guy I know has been working 6 or 7 years at the same kindy. He has JFRV so open work rights. The govt (not sure which dept) recently came to the kindy and informed him and the kindy management that what he was doing was illegal. Because he has JFRV, that told him they’d give him 1 month to find a new job or he’d be fined.

[Bu_Lai_En]

@Gao Bohan

[quote=“Bu Lai En”]The MOE doesn’t like kindies teaching English to children under 6. Their general guidelines are that it should be limited to lesssons which take up less than half a day, but not immersion English instruction. Schools that break these regulations could fail to have their licenses renewed (in theory, after warnings).

I’m a bit confused. Does the MOE issue regulations (presumably authorized by federal statutes?) to prevent children under 6 from being taught in an English immersion environment, regardless of the nationality of the teacher? Or do the regulations only prevent foreigners from obtaining ARC based on teaching kindergarten, so these arrests/deportations we always hear about are basically visa violations? In other words, is the crime using English as the language of instruction all day long, so that even an ROC national could be arrested for doing so, or is the crime working at a kindergarten in violation of visa restrictions?[/quote]

The MOE licences the schools. In theory (though I expect, these days it happens very little if at all), if they think a school is teaching the kids too much English (ie fulltime immersion) they can deny the school the renewal of its licence, and/or impose a fine. They can also do this for hiring uncertified teachers (and of course a whole range of other things). In practice they usually announce that they will have a repeat inspection, and the problems have to be fixed by then.

Deportations are for teachers breaking the terms of their working visa/ARC. You can’t teach kindy on a regular ARC and to do so breaks the terms of your ARC, so you can be deported. Not, however, if you are on a JFRV.

[Bu_Lai_En]

[quote=“cfimages”]
A guy I know has been working 6 or 7 years at the same kindy. He has JFRV so open work rights. The govt (not sure which dept) recently came to the kindy and informed him and the kindy management that what he was doing was illegal. Because he has JFRV, that told him they’d give him 1 month to find a new job or he’d be fined.[/quote]

I’d bet money, that what happened was that they said they would fine the SCHOOL, not the teacher. The school broke the ruls by hiring an uncertified teacher. Or possibly the MOE said they’d fine the teacher, even though they can’t do that. Back when they were still fighting to control ALL teachers, even in buxibans, they said that to me when I was working in a buxiban (teaching over-six’s). This was 2002, and they had no authroity to do so at the time, but were still fighting for it. I didn’t leave, and nothing happened to me or the school.

[tomthorne]

[quote=“Bu Lai En”][quote=“cfimages”]
A guy I know has been working 6 or 7 years at the same kindy. He has JFRV so open work rights. The govt (not sure which dept) recently came to the kindy and informed him and the kindy management that what he was doing was illegal. Because he has JFRV, that told him they’d give him 1 month to find a new job or he’d be fined.[/quote]

I’d bet money, that what happened was that they said they would fine the SCHOOL, not the teacher. The school broke the ruls by hiring an uncertified teacher. Or possibly the MOE said they’d fine the teacher, even though they can’t do that. Back when they were still fighting to control ALL teachers, even in buxibans, they said that to me when I was working in a buxiban (teaching over-six’s). This was 2002, and they had no authroity to do so at the time, but were still fighting for it. I didn’t leave, and nothing happened to me or the school.[/quote]

I’ve always been led to believe the same story as cfimages. If someone gets caught teaching kindy on a JFRV the teacher gets fined as well as the school. If a someone gets caught teaching kindy on an ARC the teacher gets deported and the school gets fined.

Being Taiwan it’s all a bit of a joke, of course. I think a lot of it depends on the area you live in. For instance, nobody seems to get deported where I live. In 6 years not a single foreign kindy teacher (and there are a shed load of them). You’d think that the MOE/FAP would at least deport one of them just to show that they are making an effort . It’s not like they’re difficult to catch. The whole situation always reminds me of Life of Brian when the Roman troops search for the Judean People’s Front (or is it People’s Front of Judea?).

[Bu_Lai_En]

[quote=“tomthorne”][quote=“Bu Lai En”][quote=“cfimages”]
A guy I know has been working 6 or 7 years at the same kindy. He has JFRV so open work rights. The govt (not sure which dept) recently came to the kindy and informed him and the kindy management that what he was doing was illegal. Because he has JFRV, that told him they’d give him 1 month to find a new job or he’d be fined.[/quote]

I’d bet money, that what happened was that they said they would fine the SCHOOL, not the teacher. The school broke the ruls by hiring an uncertified teacher. Or possibly the MOE said they’d fine the teacher, even though they can’t do that. Back when they were still fighting to control ALL teachers, even in buxibans, they said that to me when I was working in a buxiban (teaching over-six’s). This was 2002, and they had no authroity to do so at the time, but were still fighting for it. I didn’t leave, and nothing happened to me or the school.[/quote]

I’ve always been led to believe the same story as cfimages. If someone gets caught teaching kindy on a JFRV the teacher gets fined as well as the school. If a someone gets caught teaching kindy on an ARC the teacher gets deported and the school gets fined.

Being Taiwan it’s all a bit of a joke, of course. I think a lot of it depends on the area you live in. For instance, nobody seems to get deported where I live. In 6 years not a single foreign kindy teacher (and there are a shed load of them). You’d think that the MOE/FAP would at least deport one of them just to show that they are making an effort . It’s not like they’re difficult to catch. The whole situation always reminds me of Life of Brian when the Roman troops search for the Judean People’s Front (or is it People’s Front of Judea?).[/quote]

The MOE doesn’t have the authority to go around fining people that they have no authority over or contractual obligation with.

[bismarck]

@Bu Lai En

The MOE doesn’t have the authority to go around fining people that they have no authority over or contractual obligation with.

Who does the fining and deportation of foreign teacher’s in breach of their ARC? The MOFA, FAP or the Labour dept.?

[Bu_Lai_En]

@bismarck

[quote=“Bu Lai En”]The MOE doesn’t have the authority to go around fining people that they have no authority over or contractual obligation with.

Who does the fining and deportation of foreign teacher’s in breach of their ARC? The MOFA, FAP or the Labour dept.?[/quote]

A teacher who is on a normal working ARC has a contractual relationship with the MOE, so maybe they can fine him/her directly. I’m not sure. It certainly used to be the (FAP) police that deported you, so would almost certainly be the NIA (immigration) now, and I strongly suspect that it would be them who fined you too.

[Toe_Save]

Maybe it’s the same kind of fine the sidewalk vendors get, at least the slower ones without good escape routes.

[naijeru]

@Toe Save

Maybe it’s the same kind of fine the sidewalk vendors get, at least the slower ones without good escape routes.

Exactly the same I’d recon.

[bigduke6]

@touduke

[quote=“bigduke6”][quote=“touduke”][quote]If I did not have a JFRV I would not teach kindy, however I beleive I am relatively safe although it is still not legal for me to teach kindy.

and you have no qualms whatsoever doing something illegal as a living.[/quote]

Get a life. Ever exceeded the speed limit, not worn a safety belt, littered, jaywalked, stuck 5 KG’s of crack up your ass etc, etc?

Either submit something that is relevant to the OP or shut up.[/quote]

My post on this thread is more relavant to the OP than your attack.
I think teaching kindy for a living is illegal for a good reason and it’s not the same as jaywalking.
BigDuke you should stop insulting me. Your tone and attitude is awful.[/quote]

Sorry pal. You attacked me first. BTW I have not insulted you. Calling you a f*^king idiot is an insult. I did not do this. I just do not have time for holier than thou types

You asked whether I had any qualms about doing something illegal for a living. Illegal is illegal period! You think kindy teaching being illegal is good. State that in your post. It is your opinion. My opinion differs. Get over it.

Your post was irrelevant. I stated in my original post that it is illegal, but there are ways around it. This is what the OP asked about.

You also have no right to question what I do or don’t do for a living.

Foreigners will always be teaching kindy here. I work in a kindy where one of the kid’s fathers is a senior police officer. He told me that he wants his kid to be in an English program with a native speaker for various reasons, similar to what Bismark stated.

Also, someone with a JFRV based ARC has had a criminal check done locally and in their home country, so at least my school knows I am not a criminal or kiddy fiddler.

[Hamletintaiwan]

@bigduke6

[quote=“touduke”][quote=“bigduke6”][quote=“touduke”][quote]If I did not have a JFRV I would not teach kindy, however I beleive I am relatively safe although it is still not legal for me to teach kindy.

and you have no qualms whatsoever doing something illegal as a living.[/quote]

Get a life. Ever exceeded the speed limit, not worn a safety belt, littered, jaywalked, stuck 5 KG’s of crack up your ass etc, etc?

Either submit something that is relevant to the OP or shut up.[/quote]

My post on this thread is more relavant to the OP than your attack.
I think teaching kindy for a living is illegal for a good reason and it’s not the same as jaywalking.
BigDuke you should stop insulting me. Your tone and attitude is awful.[/quote]

Sorry pal. You attacked me first. BTW I have not insulted you. Calling you a f*^king idiot is an insult. I did not do this. I just do not have time for holier than thou types

You asked whether I had any qualms about doing something illegal for a living. Illegal is illegal period! You think kindy teaching being illegal is good. State that in your post. It is your opinion. My opinion differs. Get over it.

Your post was irrelevant. I stated in my original post that it is illegal, but there are ways around it. This is what the OP asked about.

You also have no right to question what I do or don’t do for a living.

Foreigners will always be teaching kindy here. I work in a kindy where one of the kid’s fathers is a senior police officer. He told me that he wants his kid to be in an English program with a native speaker for various reasons, similar to what Bismark stated.

Also, someone with a JFRV based ARC has had a criminal check done locally and in their home country, so at least my school knows I am not a criminal or kiddy fiddler.[/quote]

I haven’t had a single kindergarten job where there wasn’t a Taiwanese teacher basically in charge. When they have five, six and more different groups, then each group has its Taiwanese teacher.
They have to be licensed teachers. If they are not licensed, my best guess is that the school is doing something illegal. I you have a JFRV based ARC, and the police shoes up, then there is the Taiwanese teacher in charge.
The way I see it, with a JFRV based ARC you have the right to be there just like any other Taiwanese high school graduate doing a practical training/placement.

What the MOE does not want is; young kids being taught in a school fashion. It does not matter here if it is math, Chinese or any other subject for that matter.

You do not have to ask yourself, Am I doing something illegal? Instead you should constantly ask yourself, Am I doing the right thing?
If what the kindergarten wants you to do feels wrong try to change their opinion. If unsuccessful, find a new job.

If the police asks you, what are you doing here? I am assisting the teacher. What exactly? Finding the materials needed. Helping him/her with his/her English.

Are you teaching? NO!

Don’t sign anything.
Get a lawyer!

[Lili]

Off-topic of JFRV convo:
Do they give ARCs for part-time employment?

[bigduke6]

@Hamletintaiwan

[quote=“bigduke6”][quote=“touduke”][quote=“bigduke6”][quote=“touduke”][quote]If I did not have a JFRV I would not teach kindy, however I beleive I am relatively safe although it is still not legal for me to teach kindy.

and you have no qualms whatsoever doing something illegal as a living.[/quote]

Get a life. Ever exceeded the speed limit, not worn a safety belt, littered, jaywalked, stuck 5 KG’s of crack up your ass etc, etc?

Either submit something that is relevant to the OP or shut up.[/quote]

My post on this thread is more relavant to the OP than your attack.
I think teaching kindy for a living is illegal for a good reason and it’s not the same as jaywalking.
BigDuke you should stop insulting me. Your tone and attitude is awful.[/quote]

Sorry pal. You attacked me first. BTW I have not insulted you. Calling you a f*^king idiot is an insult. I did not do this. I just do not have time for holier than thou types

You asked whether I had any qualms about doing something illegal for a living. Illegal is illegal period! You think kindy teaching being illegal is good. State that in your post. It is your opinion. My opinion differs. Get over it.

Your post was irrelevant. I stated in my original post that it is illegal, but there are ways around it. This is what the OP asked about.

You also have no right to question what I do or don’t do for a living.

Foreigners will always be teaching kindy here. I work in a kindy where one of the kid’s fathers is a senior police officer. He told me that he wants his kid to be in an English program with a native speaker for various reasons, similar to what Bismark stated.

Also, someone with a JFRV based ARC has had a criminal check done locally and in their home country, so at least my school knows I am not a criminal or kiddy fiddler.[/quote]

I haven’t had a single kindergarten job where there wasn’t a Taiwanese teacher basically in charge. When they have five, six and more different groups, then each group has its Taiwanese teacher.
They have to be licensed teachers. If they are not licensed, my best guess is that the school is doing something illegal. I you have a JFRV based ARC, and the police shoes up, then there is the Taiwanese teacher in charge.
The way I see it, with a JFRV based ARC you have the right to be there just like any other Taiwanese high school graduate doing a practical training/placement.

What the MOE does not want is; young kids being taught in a school fashion. It does not matter here if it is math, Chinese or any other subject for that matter.

You do not have to ask yourself, Am I doing something illegal? Instead you should constantly ask yourself, Am I doing the right thing?
If what the kindergarten wants you to do feels wrong try to change their opinion. If unsuccessful, find a new job.

If the police asks you, what are you doing here? I am assisting the teacher. What exactly? Finding the materials needed. Helping him/her with his/her English.

Are you teaching? NO!

Don’t sign anything.
Get a lawyer![/quote]

Agreed.

There is always a local teacher in the classroom.

I have no problem with what I am doing and whatever I do I ensure it is in the kids interest.

In this schools case there is always a days warning about any inspection and the foreign teachers go sit in a room where the inspectors will not visit. Even if they do we are not teaching.
The school has also had Achin Ban inspections where they just look at my ARC, mutter “married” and say carry on.
I have never been asked to sign anything at either of the schools I work at. Any contract is basically not relevant as most of them relate to a work based ARC.