Confused with this Taiwanese girl's intention. Cultural difference?

Life Dating & Relationships
1

Well, I’ve known this Taiwanese lady who was divorced 2 years ago. We’ve gotten close as friends in the last 4 months and even call each other up 3-4 times a week. Then I asked her out for a date. She overslept for our lunch and I waited for 2 hours til the restaurant had to kick me out due to time limit. Then she called the restaurant to get a hold of me because I lost my cell phone that day. She apologized and we met for movie and she even came with me on the bus to retrieve my cellphone I left on the MRT. I asked her out again for lunch a few weeks later and she and I had a great lunch date chatting. I asked her if she’s interested in me and she said she will never admit to liking someone even though she really wanted to, which was a bit weird to me so I thought maybe she wasn’t interested in me after all, which was fine with me. Then a month later, she called me and said she was in a really bad mood and wanted to chat. So I took her to this jazz bar, treated her some liquor and dinner. We had a great time and I was just glad she was feeling a bit better, although she said she was feeling drunk. Therefore around 2am I called a cab and dropped her off of her apartment where she lives with relatives. Then she called around 6am and said she had heated argument with her relatives for coming back so late (early) and didn’t want to stay there, so I got in a cab and picked her up. We discussed where we can go and eventually I suggested a hotel because she was really tired and have a slight hangover. She asked me if it’s too much since she couldn’t pay for it and I said I don’t have any other ideas but that. So we went to this hotel and I paid for a whole day. We got in the hotel room, I said I will just need to use the restroom and be on my way and hopefully she will sleep well. She had this confused look and said she doesn’t want to sleep alone.

This is where I got confused and asked if she really wanted me to stay. I even said I will sleep on the sofa couch but she insisted I get in bed with her. So like any horny guy, I couldn’t reject the offer. So we got in the bed together with our clothes on and I told her I am very attracted to her and asked if we can cuddle, and so we did. But then I thought maybe she wanted me or else why would she insist on me staying and be in bed with her, right? So I started to slowly move my hands around and caressed her shoulder but then she started weeping quietly and I got really uncomfortable and asked if I offended her. She said she was just in bad mood and that all her boyfriends/ex-husband from the past would comfort her whenever she cried in bed but would ignore her once they ‘had’ her. I told her I just wanted to comfort her and she can cry on my shoulder as much as she wants because I think that’s a healthier way to let it out. Well, she then told me she stopped crying, so we went back to bed but this time I couldn’t help myself and started caressing her hair and told her my feelings/attraction for her. Now she is wide awake and said she couldn’t sleep and wanted to leave. This was around 2:30pm. So confused, I told her I really wanted to try to be boyfriend/girlfriend. I even told her I’ve been thinking about her for the past month or so because of what I know of her by this time and her past and really liked her personality. She said all her previous boyfriends told her the exact same thing and that I was just trying to get into bed with her and that I’m a liar and will break promises (which I never made) like the rest.

I was really confused by now and even felt a bit hurt, especially being called a liar when I never lied to her before. So we left the hotel, she got into a cab and insisted she can pay for it and we said our goodbyes. Well, now I really don’t know what to think of all this and wonder if this is a Taiwanese culture thing because none of this made sense to me, and whether I should even bother talking to her anymore. Anyway, thanks for reading.

2

Psychological manipulation. Run, don’t walk.

3

What ironlady said. Sounds like this this girl has issues so huge she could sell the rights to them for a soap opera.

There are, definitely, a lot more messed-up women (and men) in Taiwan than you would expect, but this sort of behaviour not “cultural”. There are lots of perfectly normal, decent human beings here who will be happy to have a drama-free relationship. Look for one of them and don’t waste your emotional energy on toxic people. It’s sad when you get involved with someone like this because your natural instinct is to try to make things better. You can’t.

4

Yeah she’s not in a place where she can have a healthy relationship.
It can be frustrating for a woman to feel like a guy is “there for you” whenever he wants sex but can’t be “there for you” in a non-sexual way, but from what you’ve said that’s not the case. You were a true gentleman, helped her out when it really wasn’t your responsibility, and offered to leave her alone, or just to be a shoulder to cry on.
This whole dance of, oh, take me to a hotel room, I don’t like to sleep alone, ok let’s cuddle, oh no, now I’m crying----that shit is WEIRD.

So what Ironlady said: Run. Don’t walk. She’s not in a healthy headspace and she will make you suffer if you continue to spend time with her.

5

I think your approach towards her was poor.
You showed too much emotion.
And your interest level is too high (or you are showing it is higher than hers) and she is in complete control and knows it.
You should never ask a woman if they ‘are interested in you’. You don’t need to if they are on a date with you (but they could be a serial dater or bored and chose to go out with you that night), but their actions are enough to gauge their interest level.
I would have thrown her number away when she ‘overslept’ and stood you up. For me, that tells you how interested amongst other things she was.

And you are not a psychiatrist. Don’t be one for any woman. And tell them that. If she wants to complain about boyfriends, that is what her girlfriends are for. You are on a date for a good time, not some Oprah nonsense.

She is testing you, with her emotional stuff.

She has the upper hand here and is in complete control.
Do you want to be a chump or a champ?

I suggest you check out this guy:
askmen.com/dating/doclove/

6

The first mistake modern men make with women is assuming a woman knows what she wants. (Not that lots of men don’t know what they want.)

This one sounds like a fixer-upper. If you know how to do the job and are up for the work, there are possibilities. Otherwise, not.

By the way… you aren’t just after one thing, are you?

7

Taiwan , its not an adventure without its girls :slight_smile: Oh and don’t worry you will be paying for it later.

8

Manipulative girl. Yeah, she might have had issues in the past and not everything she says are lies. However, normally this attitude means that she is not that interested or that she is not worth it. My advice is if you are not sure about what you can get out of this, and you don’t think you can control the situation, get the fuck out of there. She is playing with you, and I personally hate people like that.

9

[quote=“rowland”]The first mistake modern men make with women is assuming a woman knows what she wants. (Not that lots of men don’t know what they want.)

Very well said (golden). So true.

She is obviously still carrying scars from previous relationships (divorce, f### them and forget them boyfriends). Do not think you did anything wrong, looks like the right things (in my opinion). As already said, she is not in a good place, not ready for a relationship. needs to let go of the negative baggage she still carries. Until she does, you will have to keep your pants on, if she is worth the wait.

10

Damaged goods. Buyer beware.

11

[quote=“cake”]I think your approach towards her was poor.
You showed too much emotion.
And your interest level is too high (or you are showing it is higher than hers) and she is in complete control and knows it.
You should never ask a woman if they ‘are interested in you’. You don’t need to if they are on a date with you (but they could be a serial dater or bored and chose to go out with you that night), but their actions are enough to gauge their interest level.
I would have thrown her number away when she ‘overslept’ and stood you up. For me, that tells you how interested amongst other things she was.

And you are not a psychiatrist. Don’t be one for any woman. And tell them that. If she wants to complain about boyfriends, that is what her girlfriends are for. You are on a date for a good time, not some Oprah nonsense.

She is testing you, with her emotional stuff.

She has the upper hand here and is in complete control.
Do you want to be a chump or a champ?

I suggest you check out this guy:
askmen.com/dating/doclove/[/quote]

Oh bleh, bleh, bleh.

You do realize that dating gurus for women are giving the same stupid advice, don’t you?

Raise his interest by ignoring him, never tell him how you feel, let him contact you more than you contact him, bleh bleh bleh.
Congrats, dating gurus, on raising a generation of cowards who are incapable of forming healthy relationships because they’ve programmed themselves to establish and maintain the upper hand at all costs.
What, are you going to do that dance for the rest of your life?

He did it right. He revealed his interest (like a real grown up) and she revealed that she’s unhinged and therefore not a suitable candidate for a relationship. No harm, no foul.
The “raise their interest” game works-- except that you’re not raising their interest in you, you’re raising their interest in a challenge, and then when you turn around and let them know you actually want to be with them (and are therefore no longer a challenge), they lose interest- because they’re still at the point in their life where they want a challenge more than the love of another human being.
Fail fast, I say. Throw it out there. If someone loses interest in you because you show interest in them, that’s probably not someone you should be with anyways.

The real trick is valuing yourself and your happiness enough that you actually ARE a challenge, instead of pretending to be one.

Edit: I do agree that the oversleeping and missing a date is a major red flag. I might not toss a number on the first time (everyone makes mistakes) but on time number two- they’re out.

12

Her intention is to find a man who will genuinely treat her with respect, genuinely listen to her problems, and not just try to slam his cock in her and fall asleep.

Are you that man?

13

[quote=“superking”]Her intention is to find a man who will genuinely treat her with respect, genuinely listen to her problems, and not just try to slam his cock in her and fall asleep.

Are you that man?[/quote]
You’ve got to admit, if his telling is accurate, that this girl is at least acting like she’s trouble.

Having problems with her family, letting him pay for a hotel room, asking him to get in bed with her…If she’s simply looking for a man to treat her with respect and not try to slam his cock in her, she’s going about it in kind of a weird way. Perhaps she’s young and inexperienced…but wait, she’s divorced. Nah, something’s up with this girl. Usually I’d agree that what you said above is probably accurate, but this girl is playing some kind of game. If his telling is accurate.

14

Yes the girl is trouble. And yes, she probably wanted to get laid. Probably didn’t quite want a relationship yet. Probably got mixed signals. Thought she was getting laid, but got sent home and then thought “the heck is this” and gave him a second chance. But he was too timid , too sincere.

To rehash (in my simple mind):

  1. She wanted to get laid by him, because she likes him. She doesn’t LOVE him and at this point in time is NOT really necessarily seeking a relationship. But she probably wanted to get physical.

  2. He didn’t deliver. He was acting like the “girl” and she was acting like the “guy”. She wanted action and he wanted a relationship

15

Cultural difference? More like cultural indifference.

16

Yes, no cultural issues here, just a confused and upset girl/women, trying to find a better place but not sure where or how. She went to you trying to find it and was likely ready for an enchanted evening (well I guess by then it was actually morning), then all the negative s##t of her problem relationships starting surfacing in her head, then oh my God, “run away, run away”. In all honesty, you may want to follow her lead.

17

Again if this were a cultural thing… then what a screwed culture this is!

18

A divorced woman staying with relatives and come home at 2am. That’s some disrespect there. Taiwanese relatives like to have some authority over their unmarried or dis-married females. It’s an unhealthy way to go about looking for “free” relative women but that’s the culture. She’s not in a position to have a relationship with a foreigner. A Taiwanese man, if approved by her relatives, maybe, but not you. It has nothing to do “they dislike foreigners”, but more about her being her own mistress and making her own decisions. Basically, you are not in the equal footing to deal with each other. She’s reliant, financially and emotionally, to her relatives. If they were her parents and they are understanding, it’d be okay, otherwise, leave her alone to her own problems. Life is hard and I don’t think she’s got it worse than the average, but she’s not taking control of her own situation. Looking to you for help. I think what she needs is a good job, at least pays well, and her own place, a few supportive relatives/friends, and then, and only then, someone like you.

19

This sounds like good advice to me.

20

[quote=“JamesMovieFanatic”]Well, I’ve known this Taiwanese lady who was divorced 2 years ago. We’ve gotten close as friends in the last 4 months and even call each other up 3-4 times a week. Then I asked her out for a date. She overslept for our lunch and I waited for 2 hours til the restaurant had to kick me out due to time limit. Then she called the restaurant to get a hold of me because I lost my cell phone that day. She apologized and we met for movie and she even came with me on the bus to retrieve my cellphone I left on the MRT. I asked her out again for lunch a few weeks later and she and I had a great lunch date chatting. I asked her if she’s interested in me and she said she will never admit to liking someone even though she really wanted to, which was a bit weird to me so I thought maybe she wasn’t interested in me after all, which was fine with me. Then a month later, she called me and said she was in a really bad mood and wanted to chat. So I took her to this jazz bar, treated her some liquor and dinner. We had a great time and I was just glad she was feeling a bit better, although she said she was feeling drunk. Therefore around 2am I called a cab and dropped her off of her apartment where she lives with relatives. Then she called around 6am and said she had heated argument with her relatives for coming back so late (early) and didn’t want to stay there, so I got in a cab and picked her up. We discussed where we can go and eventually I suggested a hotel because she was really tired and have a slight hangover. She asked me if it’s too much since she couldn’t pay for it and I said I don’t have any other ideas but that. So we went to this hotel and I paid for a whole day. We got in the hotel room, I said I will just need to use the restroom and be on my way and hopefully she will sleep well. She had this confused look and said she doesn’t want to sleep alone.

This is where I got confused and asked if she really wanted me to stay. I even said I will sleep on the sofa couch but she insisted I get in bed with her. So like any horny guy, I couldn’t reject the offer. So we got in the bed together with our clothes on and I told her I am very attracted to her and asked if we can cuddle, and so we did. But then I thought maybe she wanted me or else why would she insist on me staying and be in bed with her, right? So I started to slowly move my hands around and caressed her shoulder but then she started weeping quietly and I got really uncomfortable and asked if I offended her. She said she was just in bad mood and that all her boyfriends/ex-husband from the past would comfort her whenever she cried in bed but would ignore her once they ‘had’ her. I told her I just wanted to comfort her and she can cry on my shoulder as much as she wants because I think that’s a healthier way to let it out. Well, she then told me she stopped crying, so we went back to bed but this time I couldn’t help myself and started caressing her hair and told her my feelings/attraction for her. Now she is wide awake and said she couldn’t sleep and wanted to leave. This was around 2:30pm. So confused, I told her I really wanted to try to be boyfriend/girlfriend. I even told her I’ve been thinking about her for the past month or so because of what I know of her by this time and her past and really liked her personality. She said all her previous boyfriends told her the exact same thing and that I was just trying to get into bed with her and that I’m a liar and will break promises (which I never made) like the rest.

I was really confused by now and even felt a bit hurt, especially being called a liar when I never lied to her before. So we left the hotel, she got into a cab and insisted she can pay for it and we said our goodbyes. Well, now I really don’t know what to think of all this and wonder if this is a Taiwanese culture thing because none of this made sense to me, and whether I should even bother talking to her anymore. Anyway, thanks for reading.[/quote]
I think you are talking too much.
She wants guilt-free sex and you want that, too. However none of you can have it.
So, my suggestion, be the horny guy you say you are and see how it works out. If it doesn’t, move on.

Oh I feel so drunk blablabla. Do you really need a terminology translator for that?
You are in a hotel-room with here at 2:00 am after she had been home already. Can’t get any more obvious.
She asks you to get in the bed with her, and what do you do? Ask her if it was ok with this and that.

She sounds like a woman who wants a guy who knows what he wants and gets it.
She wants you to take the responsibility for breaking the Taiwanese rules. She want’s guilt free sex.

I might be all wrong with that, but still I’d just try and, if it didn’t work out the way I thought, apologize and move on.