The dude’s boss is allowed to enforce the contract so long as no illegal sanctions are imposed on the dude. Illegal provisions in such a contract can only be sanctioned by the court, as far as I know.
The dude has to follow employment law when resigning, too, to avoid being penalized.[/quote]
Ok, I’m asking for a friend (really), he’s been at this school for several months, and it’s dreadful, and his contrct requires 30 days’ notice if he quits. Now, he has another much better gig ready and waiting that will easily slap a new WP onto his existing ARC.
He’s got a pretty strong feeling, and past events seem to bear this out, that, once he gives his notice, the owner will make his life (even more of) a living hell, AND likely dick him on whatever pay he’s owed at the end of the 30 days.
So he’s seriously considering collecting his most recent pay and doing a runner.
The notice is the only term of the contract he’ll be breaking, although the owner has systematically broken nearly ever part of their end since he started.
When he asked me, my only concern was the CLA blacklist deal.
Is he likely to find himself on it?
I don’t know the answer to your question, but if it were me, I wouldn’t risk walking out unless I knew I were leaving the country and never coming back.
Your friend needs documents of all sorts from the previous employer (tax, end of employment, etc) in order to apply for his new work permit and ARC extension. If he walks out, he’s obviously not going to get those.
When I told my employer that I had found another job, sure he was pissed, and he hassled me and gave me hell. But I reminded him that my contract required a TWO month notice, which was exactly what I was giving him. I was following the agreement and I made sure he knew it. Then, he eventually shut the hell up about it. The last two months I was there dragged and it was godawful, but damn did it feel good when I was finally free at the end of it. I got my necessary paperwork, and surprisingly even my pay in full.
When my manager gave me a really hard time or tried to pull nonsense on me, I just stayed persistent, either by marching around crying “Injustice!” (obviously also backing up my claims) or mentioning to him the authorities I could get involved to deal with the bullshit. May not work in your friend’s case, but it worked for me.
Solid advice from xiaojuan. Don’t do a runner. Your friend will need that paperwork from the job he/she wants to quit. Sure, they’re going to make it hell, but it’s only 30 days. Suck it up. Bide your time. Toe the line. You’re not the first and won’t be the last to break a buxiban contract. The odds of your friend winding up on the mythical blacklist are pretty good, provided it really exists, which no one has been able to proven conclusively to yours truly–and not that I care anyway.
I did a runner and had zero consequences from it. It all depends if the owner decides to actually follow through with the necessary paperwork to actually report the person. AFAIK, they have to complete several steps to report you, and while the guy might be pissed off, he’s probably going to be too lazy to actually go through the process.
I can’t say I recommend it, as this is Taiwan and anything could happen. However, I did it and have since received a new ARC. No one ever mentioned it. I never gave anyone a letter, but I think that is because I went from runner to student and back to worker. Dunno.
Isn’t there a nice long article on how to do this on Tealit?
Go to the CLA website. Find the Labor Standards Act. Read it very carefully, and then wave it in the employer’s face when he tries to fuck you around. He is not allowed to dock your pay as a “fine”. Do not do a runner. However, I’m pretty sure that if someone has been employed at a particular place for less than a year, it’s only ten days’ notice. I think one to two years is twenty days’ notice and more than two years is thirty days’ notice. Double check this though. A contract is illegal if it contradicts something in the labour laws here.
Threaten to expose him to Apple Daily and every other “news” outlet here. Threaten to stand outside his buxiban and hand out flyers telling people walking by and parents and students what a cunt he is. Threaten to poach his students and take them to the next job you have. Threaten to report him and his employees to the foreign police/immigration. You don’t have to actually do any of that, but you do have to make him think it’s going to be more painful for him to fuck you around than to just get you off his hands. Basically let him know that the public relations nightmare you will put on him will cost him a lot more than he’ll get from you. Wind him up very quickly at the start of the encounter, record him going off his rocker threatening you, and remain calm or silent during the rest of the conversation, which you are secretly recording. Do this several times. Then, it’s up to you whether you let him know that you have the recording.
In short, let him know that if he wants to be a cunt, you can, and will, be an even bigger cunt. Or, do what I did. Don’t say a word, and then do some of that (I never had to really escalate it – I was right on the verge of getting the media involved) all anyway so they get completely blindsided when the Angel of Death comes knocking at their door. For five months, I tied up at least six people (including a lawyer from Taipei) who were constantly calling me, emailing me and sending me letters. I said very little to them, fobbed them off and didn’t respond to them (so they would waste more time trying to contact me). I was their Vietnam. I always called their bluff. When they threatened to take me to court, I showed no emotion and the only thing I said to them was, “I’ll see you there then”. I think I really freaked them the fuck out, which is why they dropped it eventually because they probably realised that I wasn’t shooting to kill. I was shooting to maim, so I’d tie up three more people in support hauling the guy off with his guts hanging out. That was against Hess. This guy is going to be small potatoes if you want him to be.
On the other hand, you could be a pussy and let him walk all over you. Either fight to win, or don’t fight at all.
[quote=“GuyInTaiwan”]A contract is illegal if it contradicts something in the labour laws here.[/quote]The contract itself is legal but some provisions, when applicable, can only be sanctioned by the court. In other words, the employer isn’t allowed to enforce illegal clauses in the contract but he can try his luck in court.
Disputes over employment contracts are very common. Depending on the nature of employment and circumstances, the court may rule in favor of the contract beyond the scope of the law. This is especially true for employment that requires extensive training and/or if the employer suffers substantial loss. As far as private schools are concerned, you’re probably right, Guy. These teaching contracts are a laughing stock.
One thing I did was I found the relevant sections in Hess’ training manual where they claimed only 20 minutes of time outside of class was required. Then I asked the CLA to make Hess bring copies of all of my time cards, claiming that the extra time I worked was under duress because they had power over me to cancel my ARC, which would potentially have forced me to leave Taiwan at great expense to myself. I told Hess’s representatives that I would pay their 20,000NT contract breaking fee if they paid me the 80,000-100,000NT in unpaid overtime. Since they were paying me a wage, and not a salary, they had no right to try to twist my arm into doing anything more than the 20 minutes per lesson in the contract. Otherwise, they had in fact lied to me and entered into the contract in something other than good faith. I put it back on them saying they had broken the contract and forced me to leave, that they were the ones being unreasonable. Would they have won that in a court of law? Obviously, they either don’t think they would have, or it would have cost them more than they would have won. I guess, unlike many people, I enjoyed the sport of it and I also went into the whole thing quite prepared to lose. You have to be willing to lose in order to win. Perhaps from their view it would have been devastating if they’d actually tried to fight that and lost because word would have got around like wildfire. Dunno.
Your suggest he report him to the FAP and immigation when the bushiban owner and other staff are Taiwanese. :loco: :loco:
I was reported to the FAP many years for being an illegal teacher by a Canadian who knew I had just started teaching at a school just down the road from where he worked.
The FAP were not amused to have their timed wasted.
The person in question is working at a buxiban. Presumably, he’ll be replaced by another foreign teacher. There’s a lag period between starting a new job and getting an ARC (assuming that route is even taken and the whole thing is not under the table). Few buxibans will wait for that lag time, and want a new employee to start work immediately, which is, technically, illegal. Would the police or immigration actually do anything about that? Probably not, but in calling someone’s bluff, you don’t actually have to have a better hand, you just have to make your opponent fold because he thinks you have a better hand. In such a situation, you would just have to make the buxiban laoban think he would be in serious trouble if you were to report him and the police/immigration were to come and check him out. Likewise, making him think there’d be some sort of anonymous tip to the taxation department (because I’m sure many buxiban owners are dodging tax) might stick a rocket under him. Find a gap in his armour. Go for that.
Satellite TV: I don’t see the problem with snitches. They keep things honest. Anyway, my point was that you just have to make someone else believe you will do something. You may not actually have to do it.
Of course it’s illegal. When I said “technically illegal” you know that I meant that it’s illegal but people are lax about enforcing it. You know there’s a huge grey zone in Taiwan.
[quote=“GuyInTaiwan”]Satellite TV: I don’t see the problem with snitches. They keep things honest. Anyway, my point was that you just have to make someone else believe you will do something. You may not actually have to do it.
Of course it’s illegal. When I said “technically illegal” you know that I meant that it’s illegal but people are lax about enforcing it. You know there’s a huge grey zone in Taiwan.[/quote]
Funny how those being deported for working illegally don’t see it as a grey zone. It’s only a grey zone because people think they won’t get caught, it always happens to somebody else.
[quote=“Satellite TV”][quote=“GuyInTaiwan”]Satellite TV: I don’t see the problem with snitches. They keep things honest. Anyway, my point was that you just have to make someone else believe you will do something. You may not actually have to do it.
Of course it’s illegal. When I said “technically illegal” you know that I meant that it’s illegal but people are lax about enforcing it. You know there’s a huge grey zone in Taiwan.[/quote]
Funny how those being deported for working illegally don’t see it as a grey zone. It’s only a grey zone because people think they won’t get caught, it always happens to somebody else.[/quote]
Of course it’s a grey zone. People who get deported do not get deported because they are teaching under sixes English. They get deported because the address on their ARC is not the same as the location they are teaching. The managers are unable to get work permits for the teachers in the ‘kindy’ area of the school so they apply for a work permit in the ‘buxiban’ area of the school. The teachers work in the kindy area and if they’re daft/slow enough to get photographed when the FAP snail their way through the security doors then they get deported.
Come on, you couldn’t get any fucking greyer if you tried.
[quote=“tomthorne”][quote=“Satellite TV”][quote=“GuyInTaiwan”]Satellite TV: I don’t see the problem with snitches. They keep things honest. Anyway, my point was that you just have to make someone else believe you will do something. You may not actually have to do it.
Of course it’s illegal. When I said “technically illegal” you know that I meant that it’s illegal but people are lax about enforcing it. You know there’s a huge grey zone in Taiwan.[/quote]
Funny how those being deported for working illegally don’t see it as a grey zone. It’s only a grey zone because people think they won’t get caught, it always happens to somebody else.[/quote]
Of course it’s a grey zone. People who get deported do not get deported because they are teaching under sixes English. They get deported because the address on their ARC is not the same as the location they are teaching. The managers are unable to get work permits for the teachers in the ‘kindy’ area of the school so they apply for a work permit in the ‘buxiban’ area of the school. The teachers work in the kindy area and if they’re daft/slow enough to get photographed when the FAP snail their way through the security doors then they get deported.
Come on, you couldn’t get any fucking greyer if you tried.[/quote]
So the teachers get busted for working illegally because they don’t undertand the law, not because it’s a grey area. Its because reckless employers are willing to let their employees get shafted. Maybe if they started fining the employers the 750k fine I bet they’d rather not do that to the teachers who have no clue. They should give a warning to the teacher the first time they are caught. Or simply inform them with a notice when they get their ARC. Also they should refuse to give new work permits to schools that have put teachers in the position to be deported.
The employers take a punt that none of their teachers will get busted. You know that they too get hit with a big fine if a whitey gets caught in their kindy section. The fact is hardly anyone does get caught, and the profits from running a kindy far outweight the risks (which is only a fine for the school owners, but deportation for the teacher). Has anyone ever been deported while working for HESS?
The employers take a punt that none of their teachers will get busted. You know that they too get hit with a big fine if a whitey gets caught in their kindy section. The fact is hardly anyone does get caught, and the profits from running a kindy far outweight the risks (which is only a fine for the school owners, but deportation for the teacher). Has anyone ever been deported while working for HESS?[/quote]
Cannot say… but maybe they need to have effective enforcement and fine the employer and not deport the teachers.
The employers take a punt that none of their teachers will get busted. You know that they too get hit with a big fine if a whitey gets caught in their kindy section. The fact is hardly anyone does get caught, and the profits from running a kindy far outweight the risks (which is only a fine for the school owners, but deportation for the teacher). Has anyone ever been deported while working for HESS?[/quote]
Cannot say… but maybe they need to have effective enforcement and fine the employer and not deport the teachers.[/quote]
Well I can say - nobody.
If the government had a speed camera in the UK and some people who sped through it and worked for a certain company were never prosecuted. I’d describe that as a ‘grey area’ of the law. It seems I just don’t understand Taiwan culture.
Satellite TV: Of course they should enforce things, but they don’t. I suspect because there’s some pretty serious hongbao action taking place.
tom: I never heard of anyone at Hess getting deported for that, probably because of the above hongbao action. In some cases, at least, the police actually inform the kindergarten when they will do a raid. The kindergarten has a security door and an alarm. It all makes it impossible for anyone to get caught. That’s not the object of the visit. It would be very easy to solve this if anyone actually wanted to solve it.
[quote=“GuyInTaiwan”]Satellite TV: Of course they should enforce things, but they don’t. I suspect because there’s some pretty serious hongbao action taking place.
tom: I never heard of anyone at Hess getting deported for that, probably because of the above hongbao action. In some cases, at least, the police actually inform the kindergarten when they will do a raid. The kindergarten has a security door and an alarm. It all makes it impossible for anyone to get caught. That’s not the object of the visit. It would be very easy to solve this if anyone actually wanted to solve it.[/quote]
All it takes is a couple with a young kid in hand to visit and you don’t even have to say Ali Baba and those doors magically open.
