@finley
I do not know what your background is, but you make things very easy to understand. Do you mind looking at this article from
Steve Kirsch
Executive Director, Vaccine Safety Research Foundation (vacsafety.org)
Hereâs some positive news.South African hospital sees end of Omicron surge
Those articles we saw yesterday were a bit sensationalist.
Letâs recap this âexchangeâ (such as it is).
- afterspivak: claims that vaccination helps keep one out of the hospital
- finley: do you have any stats to support this claim?
- afterspivak: provides some numbers from Canada; does his best to be circumspect about the timeline involved, emphasizes that they do not account for what has happened since omicron took over
- finley: waves hands at said numbers; starts discussing other countries and omicron
- afterspivak:
Not all of us stay up late nights in the lab working on scientific matters. This evening, I ran into an old acquaintance who does, and asked: what would you say to the claim that vaccines do not help to keep one out of the hospital? The reply: statistically speaking, vaccines help just about every outcome. Itâs not a guarantee (some unvaccinated folks will laugh off a COVID infection; some vaccinated folks will have severe outcomes)âbut statistically speaking, on the whole, the vaccines help.
Guy
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England and itâs broken health system are now over peak of hospital occupancy already. Just let it rip and 5-6 weeks itâs over. And that without causing big problems.
Look at that graphic: SAGE Gloomsters Admit They Were Wrong About Omicron â The Daily Sceptic
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Deltacron now appears on the scene.
Combines Delta with Omicron. So, we probably get the high transmissibility Of Omicron with the deadliness of Delta.
Whatever. Itâs just a cold anyway.
Yeah, they sent us home to teach remote last week. I had a massive headache and fever all day yesterday and had a shite nightâs sleep. Took a couple Aleve this AM. Good thing the NY governor told us to NOT go to urgent care or ERs.
So when do we get to bomb Gina?
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Thatâs happening with all the strains all the time, Iâm sure.
While 25 cases of the uniquely recognizable strain have been found, Kostrikis predicted it will not last against the globally dominant omicron variant.
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Then more likely than not, if you get your âinformationâ from the popular press and from Google (which, I should point out, implements strong censorship algorithms to make anything other than the mainstream narrative disappear from the first page) youâre going to find yourself repeating propaganda without being aware of it. I know you have no background in math or statistics. I tried to give you a meaningful response which would take that into account without insulting your intelligence.
The world is being overrun by omicron, therefore I gave you results that pertain to the now rather than some soon-to-be-extinct variant. I gave you a report that was actually relevant to your claim, instead of âsome numbersâ that were not (and I linked you to the mathematical logic that explains why they were not just irrelevant to your claim but probably false - I didnât just wave my hands).
If âstatistically speaking, on the whole, the vaccines helpâ your acquaintance should be able to put some numbers on that. Iâll give this another go: if the harm caused by omicron is a trivial fraction of your all-cause risk, and the efficacy of the vaccine is modest, then the risk/benefit tradeoff is dominated by the potential harms of the vaccine. The number of youngish, healthyish people who have been harmed by omicron to date is somewhere around zero; meanwhile, the number of youngish, healthyish people who have been harmed by the vaccine (according to the adverse event reporting systems) is in the hundreds of thousands. Even ignoring the signal suggesting that vaccines enhance infection rates, Iâd say your acquaintance is not looking at the big picture here.
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Broadly, Iâd agree with this. There probably is a (marginal) case to be made for 10% or so of the population who might benefit from vaccination. But for everyone else, lockdowns and all the rest of it have caused so much misery and mayhem itâs just unreal, and vaccines seem to have done nothing good. As you said there are much better ways of facing up to the virus, by addressing your all-cause risk with vitamins, exercise, diet etc rather than focusing narrowly on COVID risk.
There is something really weird going on in the US right now, with a huge surge of inexplicable âexcess deathsâ in the 18-64 age range, ie., people who werenât historically affected by COVID and arenât appearing in the COVID stats. But this isnât being replicated in other high-vax countries, so although some of them might be vaccine deaths, I donât think all or most of them are.
The next study showing what is shown everywhere. Double vaccinated are infected at higher rates than unvaccinated.
I would be interested however in two things. Antibody testing to see the rate of people who previously had covid for all groups. Could be in favour of the unvaccinated.
And secondly the amount of tests for each group. With so many infections now asymptomatic and in many countries vaccinated also needing tests, that unvaccinated simply donât test as much or fake the tests, as they are opposing the system and induced fear going on.
So it would still be more important to see hospital admissions by group and stop the testing all together when assessing the vaccines. There could be unaccounted things going on. Plus the fact that Iâm sure the vaccinated are way more scared, so negative Placebo effect. Remember we talk about a flu with omicron.
I see more and more people evidence to abruptly stop vaccination of non risk groups. But I donât see enough evidence yet to stop vaccinating risk groups. For omicron risk groups are much smaller than for Delta, maybe 1/4 population instead of 60 percent in rich countries. Its likely now obese or over 70 instead of overweight or over 50 to show positive effect of vaccination. And stop endangering healthy young people with those wannabe vaccines.
Its important to look at things objectively, and I feel both the vaccines will save us fraction as well as many people opposing vaccines do not do this. I donât consider myself anti vax at all. Just consider myself to correctly read statistics and numbersâŚ
Why do I see vaccines still more positive than the numbers above. Because of the track record in preventing severe disease. But they were never adequate for healthy and young⌠Side effects way too big for what they preventedâŚand I still see being healthy including a high vitamin D level as key. I feel Vitamin D is more effective than the vaccines ever where sice Delta from looking at the data.
Still there is the question of vaccines destroying your immune system long term, so I donât base and weight there yet, because data for that is not existing yet. Same goes for actual long covid without the fear and propaganda Factor in the other direction.
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Presumably she actually believes what she said. Supreme Court Justices are not exactly known for their propensity to just make stuff up during debates.
On a lighter night⌠a joke going around the 'net.
Church goers were told by their pastor that the Omicron variant is in town, and all of them will be affected and some will truly die.
The worshippers rushed out of church and ran to the local tavern.
Hearing of the news from the incoming crowd about the possibility of death, the drinkers at the tavern high-tailed out and ran to the church.
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https://twitter.com/aginnt/status/1480221818430517248?s=20
And âpiss[ed] offâ they shall be.
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Ainât nobody does revolting peasants like the French.
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And Novak Djokovic has WON his case and will be released, Passport returned.
BUT, he could still get the boot.
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Glad to see there are still real men out there taking a stand.
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glad im not in china right now, seems the most absurd place on earth for this shit right now.
Theyâve got a lot of stiff competition. Absurdity is reaching such sublime heights these days they should probably hold an Olympic event for it.
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