But why should he get paid for it?
Thatās why they should get an electronic monitoring ankle bracelet slapped on.
Because Iām stuck inside and complying with the laws.
Why should they subsidize quarantine hotels?
On HSR heading back to Taipei.
This time, 3 cars, almost everyone is complying with the Covid safety rules. One elderly lady is chowing down on pineapple cake, no mask of course. Train staff passed her twice so far, but said nothing. At least she is just eating quietlyā¦so I guess no harm done.
Because you chose to enter twice during a pandemicā¦
It was your choice. Why should they pay you for it?
If you had to travel for work, then your company should pay for it. If you are self employed and had to travel for work, list it as a business expense on your taxes. The only time the government should be refunding you for your quarantine expenses are when they are asking you to leave and return. If you choose to travel during a pandemic, then be prepared to pay for your quarantine. The whole process is already subsidized a lot as it is.
I also entered during the pandemic, but that was because I just so happened to be out of Taiwan when the restrictions were put in place and had to get home. It took me a while because I was out of the country to get the documents ready for my spouse ARC application, but ultimately managed to get back just in time for the birth of my daughter. I feel I was justified to return as when I left COVID-19 wasnāt even classified as a pandemic yet. I wouldnāt leave again and then return, despite desperately wanting to take my daughter to meet my family, as it would be irresponsible to do so.
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Too late to change system now
Why would you choose to go globetrotting during a worldwide pandemic and then whine about not getting financially compensated for your quarantines? Seems a bit odd.
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Some difficult truths being spoken here, especially about how individual actions and public health intersectā¦
But let me also add something. None of has lived through anything like this. Given the unfolding situation, some of the rules and regulations keep shifting. Some of us may be caught flat footed; some of us may have miscalculated possible outcomes or consequences.
In this situation, no one has the whole picture. Some of us evidently make dumber decisions than others (Iām looking at you, disgraced cargo pilot!). But if our fellow forumosans are complying with the law (particularly with public health measures in Taiwan), then thatās pretty much what we would hope forāalong with continued good health in our communities and of all the people we care about.
Guy
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Itās the same reason why they subsidize hotels. To encourage compliance and make it easy. If people feel like they are being rewarded for compliance they are more likely to play by the rules. Positive rewards.
Canada is taking the exact opposite approach. Instead of subsidizing hotels, it looks as if they are actually charging a symbolic punitive amount and requiring a hotel stay for at least 3 days (unlike Taiwan where you can still stay in your own place, or, outside of Taipei, an Airbnb). This hasnāt gone over well with people and there are some high-profile lawsuits underway. Not just one, nor just two, but three.
This is referring to the new entry policy in Canada, right?
As if infected arrivals would not be able to transmit the virus after three days. What a joke!
No wonder Canada and elsewhere in North American has been in such rough shape.
Guy
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The longer this goes on, the less black and white peopleās choices will be. it was easy for me to make the choice not to travel last summer or even during Christmas time, as difficult and lonely as it was. but as time goes on, the choice of whether to take a trip to the USA is more complicated, at least for me. my mom is in her 70s, Iām an only child, and she wonāt be around forever. weāve lost a year of seeing each other and 2021 isnāt looking promising. itās easy to judge people ~ Iām not talking about people who travel for fun, but others ~ but if this is the new reality for the foreseeable future, we should have grace for each other. just my feeling. (please donāt tell me, ājust move to the usā as if its that easy. believe me Iāve thought if it but my life and job are here).
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Stay in touch with Skype or facetime or whatever platform worksāas Iām sure you are already doing.
The situation requires us to be creative and as resilient as possible, ideally without messing around with other peopleās health!
Guy
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Itās three days then home quarantine for 11.
But the reality is if you provide a test 3 taken days before entry, do a test upon arrival, and do a test at the end of your 3 days youāre at a point where combined with mask wearing the risk is perfectly acceptable to go outside.
The awesome honour system. Who needs enforcement?
You go Canada! Iām sure everything will work out great.
Guy
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They closed the barn door after the horses escaped. The politicians are all back from their Caribbean vacations now so itās OK to essentially ban travel for the plebs so they can look like they are doing something.
All they needed to do is like Taiwan. You can quarantine at home but hire people to call randomly to ensure people are at home. Of course too many Canadians would cry that their rights are being violated.
Cry at rights being violated lol. Yeh, fuck civil liberties right!
The only reason the very real problems with the ādigital fenceā arenāt being brought up is because the opposition party in Taiwan is extremely retarded and focused on hyper local issues like Ractopine in pork.
Taiwan has pretty strong privacy laws on paper, where are the reviews of the digital hygiene of this system?
Your rights arenāt being violated to be told to quarantine at home and to be watched for those 14 days. Itās because people think the rules donāt apply to them that gives government more authority in their mind to act more authoritarian.
What privacy issues do you believe this raises, just out of interest? People are obligated to stay at home (or quarantine facility, or whatever) at a specified address during the quarantine period - if theyāre not allowed to leave their home at all, do they actually have a right to the privacy of their movements? If they leave the geographical area of where theyāre supposed to be, theyāre necessarily breaking the law, no?
IIRC, isnāt one of the reasons that Taiwan was able to act so quickly that it had already passed some act after SARS to allow such monitoring in the event of a pandemic?
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Ok sure
- how long is your location tracked for?
- what sort of identifiable information is sent to CECC (if you can speak Chinese youāre called by them) or the Foreign Affairs Police (if youāre an English speaker)? How is this information handled and disposed of?
- whatās the relationship between the government and telecoms that enables this tracking?
- if the system identifies other cell phones near you what other information is passed on to authorities? How long is this tracked for? How is this information disposed of?
4b) are there big data/AI algorithms being used to create inferences of relationships between active cell phones that may be in proximity to eachother? - what passport information does NIA pass on to CECC/Foreign Affairs Police? Does it include a roster of people in quarantine in the area with photos? Are these photos passed to any sort of AI/machine learning algorithm connected to the city wide cctv system? When does this tracking end? How is this data disposed of?
For the adults in the room interested in digital policy/privacy law there are a lot of unanswered questions here, which unfortunately arenāt being addressed. TH Scheeās blog is a great start. He does identify real problems by merging all of these databases.
https://youtu.be/9e6Uikbh3vA related