Dual recognizion - I know of one small country who tried, and the Taiwanese were more than willing to cooperate, however the Chinese broke off diplomatic relations once they got wise to the scheme.
Therefore, no, I don’t think the best Taiwan dip salesperson could bag that one.
[quote=“TainanCowboy”]Does the PRC control the 3rd country?
This is pushing the point of a country including Taiwan as well as the PRC in their diplomatic recognition. Not an easy sell granted. But its an “inclusive” one that needs to be sold.
Facts are facts and the PRC is not going to go away. At some point in time Taiwan, and the PRC, has to recognize that there is more benefit to both parties to allow mutual recognition with 3rd countries.
This is where the diplomatic wizardry has to come into play. Who are the world-class negotiators working for Taiwan? [/quote]
Anything may happen 10-20 years from now, especially in the context of a mainland peace agreement under which Taiwan doesn’t seek “more” independence… but as of right now, there is no world-class negotiator that can manufacture a deal out of thin air.
Beijing’s policy is very simple: choose either the PRC or Taiwan. There has never been even the slightest hint of deviation from this principal. Of all the 150+ countries out there, none have relations with both for precisely this reason.
Expected… Taiwan should spend no more money in this losing battle, and definitely not continue its “dollar policy”.
I can’t believe countries let themselves be bullied by China into choosing one or the other. Someone should grow some balls and recognize both; others would follow.
[quote=“Aether”]Expected… Taiwan should spend no more money in this losing battle, and definitely not continue its “dollar policy”.
I can’t believe countries let themselves be bullied by China into choosing one or the other. Someone should grow some balls and recognize both; others would follow.[/quote]
I guess people out there don’t realize it’s been tried, and not everything in this world is about the size of balls.
Recognition is a two-way street. Any nation that recognizes Taiwan will have their diplomatic relations with Beijing terminated. Their embassy in Beijing will be closed and their ambassador credentials revoked. Beijing will close its embassy and withdraw their ambassador as well.
FTV News attributed the switch to the US$450 million in loans and grants going to Costa Rica from China. Apparently Taiwan isn’t going to try to compete with that.
Why the hell does Taiwan care?
Some third-rate third-world countries that they buy off with dollar diplomacy…like Costa Rica is a major world power.
Taiwan would be better off if they pressured the U.N. to recognize two Chinas instead of one. No one cares about a handful of Central American banana republics…no one, not even Taiwan. But if France, the U.K., Russia, the U.S., and all the other major powers stood together and recognized the ROC and PRC as two separate entities in the U.N., then some good could be done. As is, the ROC is wasting precious money that could be better spent, bribing puny tin-pot nations that no one cares about, just to bolster its prestige. Just drop the pretense, “ROC” and be what you really are - Taiwan.
Now there’s useful, actionable advice.
There is no point to the “ROC”. The “Republic of China” is laughable. Everybody knows that the PRC is the real China. As soon as the KMT in Taiwan gives up the pretense of the “ROC” and just recognize that Taiwan is just Taiwan…
So, what you’re saying is… the force keeping the United States, France, the UK, and the UN from granting recognition to the ROC (or Taiwan) is the KMT?
Yes. Exactly.
50 years ago there was a war. The KMT lost to the CCP. Instead of “manning up” and admitting that they lost, they had to do the stupid, idiotic Chinese thing and sacrifice “face” to reality. They had to pretend that Taiwan was “China”. It’s the entire reason that there’s a problem now… a stupid ideological difference over 50 years ago. If the KMT would throw away the maps that show that they own Mongolia and Tibet, and give up the pretense that they are the “legitimate” government of “China” that would improve relations 100%. Everyone knows that the KMT’s pretense to being the legitimative government of China is laughable. No one takes it seriously. Chiang Kai Shek lost and became a tin-pot dictator of a puny little island that has no importantance to the greater world.
[quote=“Quentin”]There is no point to the “ROC”. The “Republic of China” is laughable. Everybody knows that the PRC is the real China. As soon as the KMT in Taiwan gives up the pretense of the “ROC” and just recognize that Taiwan is just Taiwan…[/quote]Q -
I think that would be a major 1st step.
Taiwan is Taiwan. Not the ambiguous construct “ROC.”
No need to declare any “independent” status…Just quietly assume the world position of…TAIWAN and be done with it.
No “dual China” recognition problems. China(PRC/CCP) is China.
Taiwan is Taiwan.
Thats the Diplomacy sell.
[quote=“TainanCowboy”]No “dual China” recognition problems. China(PRC/CCP) is China.
Taiwan is Taiwan.
Thats the Diplomacy sell.[/quote]
TainanCowboy,
You can’t buy something no one wants to buy. 上赶着不是买卖.
It’s a serious case of delusion to believe the only thing keeping George Bush from recognizing an independent Taiwan is his confusion over Taiwan’s real name, and KMT obstructionism.
cctang -
Bush has nothing to do with this.
And delusion is all in the mind.
Taiwan has a lot to add-value to its ties with other nations. A position which should emphasized is the advantages that Taiwan can bring to the table.
Unfortunately a lot of this strength has been sold out to the PRC by Taiwans business greed.
This needs to be changed to strengthen Taiwans world status.
As long as the KMT/DPP/whatever dog fight is emphasized more than Taiwan nationalism no progress will be made on this.
And this feeds the PRC position. Divide and conquer from within.
TainanCowboy,
But every country has “sold out” to PRC as you put it. Why would Taiwan be any different? Are not Taiwanese entitled to be rich?
[quote=“TainanCowboy”]Taiwan has a lot to add-value to its ties with other nations. A position which should emphasized is the advantages that Taiwan can bring to the table.
Unfortunately a lot of this strength has been sold out to the PRC by Taiwans business greed.
This needs to be changed to strengthen Taiwans world status.
As long as the KMT/DPP/whatever dog fight is emphasized more than Taiwan nationalism no progress will be made on this.
And this feeds the PRC position. Divide and conquer from within.[/quote]
That sounds like an awful lot of talking points with precious little substance. What exactly are you proposing, and is it realistic?
The main screwup in Taiwan’s diplomacy did not happen under the current administration. It happened during the 1960’s when they had a realistic chance of getting dual recognizion to work.
Chiang Kaishei and the KMT blew that out of sheer incompetence, and no finger pointing at DPP’s attempt of keeping the pieces together is going to change that.
Weird that the DPP is getting criticized by the KMT for merely continuing their policy.
Sometime unfinished books are finished by ghost writers when the author cannot finish the book themselves. In many cases, the book is of lesser quality than on finished by the original author.
In other words, just because the DPP inherited the Strait Issue, doesn’t mean they will do as good a job resolving the issue as the KMT.
Now there’s useful, actionable advice.[/quote]
That’s what I was suggesting too. Who cares about Costa Rica? Have the G8 lead, the rest will follow…
Last night flipping through the news channels while they were having their “panel discussions” I happened to land on TVBS when they stated: You know why we lost Costa Rica, Chen Shui-bian himself said why! Then they went to file footage of Chen in short sleeves -possibly, some news conference while abroad- saying China had invested one billion in CR and three billion in CR’s stock market. He stated then that there was no way Taiwan could compete with that.
The anchor then went on to blame Chen for Taiwan not being rich enough to beat China at this money game. When he started saying if the economy was that good then how come we could not beat them at this game, I flipped channels again, but my point is why nobody asks the question: is this the right way to do it?
I would have like to see Taiwanese businesses and factories in Central America prosper, rather than having Chinese government officials invest tax money on buying off property from a few banana republic fat cats.
Furthermore, I didn’t know CR’s stock exchange was worth that much -it is quite new-. I know some serious money goes around there -Arias’ own holding company’s, held in conjunction with the Catholic church, does not receive investments over less than several hundred thousand dollars- but a significant part comes from “laundry”. many factories have fled because they cannot compete with China’s costs, so what is the deal here?
On today’s CR’s paper there was Arias saying he was “dissapointed” in the Taiwanese, that Taiwan could have given more, and that he asked for 100 million USD and Taiwan said they could only give 50. I think he confused the island with the North Pole and Chen with St. Nick.
Arias stated that “this new relationship will derive in huge benefits and will bring prosperity and development”. He also declared that they would strive for a free trade agreement with China as soon as posssible.
Just as an afterthought, isn’t CR the only country that has signed but not yet approved CAFTA (the free trade agreement with the States)?
CR has some clout -compared to other Central American countries- at an international level because of the peace, stability, no army myth, good word of mouth from ecotourism, and, oh Arias’ Nobel Peace Prize. However, these assets are already in jeopardy because of bad governance, and this alliance with China is, IMHO, nothing more than just one more symptom.
Oh well, my point is that Taiwan is not willing and able to engage in dollar diplomacy, and really, doesn’t need to. Let go of excess baggage, let go of old thinking, focus on how to be more competitive at an international level and the rest will come.
ps.
who was the bright guy who took most industry to China? who supported China after Tiannamen? that was 80’s, so not DPP.
Not by all deductions of the possibilities.
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