I picked up this machine from Costco a few weeks ago. However, to my increasing frustration, I have been unable to make a decent loaf so far. The loaves that come out are very short and doughy - I guess it might be a problem with the yeast.
I have been mostly following the recipe below - adding the ingredients in the order listed.
Water 270ml (at 40-50 degrees)
Butter 3 tablespoons
Sugar 3 tablespoons
Salt 1/2 teaspoon
Bread flour 1 1/2 cup
Wholemeal flour 1 1/2 cup
Milk powder 2-3 tablespoons
Instant yeast 4 1/4 teaspoons (using fermpian brown brand)
Using the ultra fast 2 pound setting (no. 7).
Have also tried variations using the regular setting with similarly disappointing results.
If anyone has any suggestions about what I am doing wrong, I would be very grateful.
Could very well be the yeast, we have the same bread maker and no problems.
The fast setting No.7 does actually require fast-acting yeast. As our yeast gets older, we tend to use a little more to counter-act the ageing.
Also we don’t use the fast setting…
Lostinasia - the yeast was only purchased a few weeks ago. The production date is listed as March 2011, expiry date March 2013. We have been keeping the yeast in the fridge.
Have been measuring by volume - maybe buying some scales and measuring by weight would help.
Steviebike - have tried using the regular setting as well, but the result is the same. Do you use any of the recipes from the instruction booklet, or can you recommend any recipes that work well with the machine?
Maybe I should try some different yeast. Do you recommend instant yeast or dry yeast?
We (when I say we I should really say my wife, I just hand her the ingredients as the 2nd chef ). We use dry yeast and just keep it in a dark cool place (as can be in Taiwan). No problems. Our first Kaiser was actually broken! The mechanism was broken. Wondering if you have some mechanical or electrical problem? The 2nd one is perfect.
We also use the cake recipes - last one we made was carrot cake, came out just fine. We did however add slightly more yeast (than stated). The fast bake loaf is 3.5 tps of yeast right? How much you using on standard setting?
[quote=“Steviebike”]We (when I say we I should really say my wife, I just hand her the ingredients as the 2nd chef ). We use dry yeast and just keep it in a dark cool place (as can be in Taiwan). No problems. Our first Kaiser was actually broken! The mechanism was broken. Wondering if you have some mechanical or electrical problem? The 2nd one is perfect.
We also use the cake recipes - last one we made was carrot cake, came out just fine. We did however add slightly more yeast (than stated). The fast bake loaf is 3.5 tps of yeast right? How much you using on standard setting?[/quote]
Fast bake is 4 1/4 tsps of instant yeast or 8 tsps of dry yeast. Regular is 2 tsps of dry yeast, which I guess is equivalent to around 1 1/2 tsps of regular yeast.
Machine seems to be turning okay, will watch it more closely next time.
Be careful with yeast and salt and sugar … they can kill the yeast if mixed wrongly … it kills is by osmosis, rupturing the yeast cell and dehydrating it effectively killing it.
Remember that dry yeast must first rehydrate (in your dough mix or in water) before it can start it’s job … you can test the yeast by using a little sugar in water adding the yeast and wait until it starts bubbling.
Yeast is killed at temps. over 42 C
BTW, there is no ‘fast’ bread baking in a baker’s dictionary …
[quote=“Belgian Pie”]Be careful with yeast and salt and sugar … they can kill the yeast if mixed wrongly … it kills is by osmosis, rupturing the yeast cell and dehydrating it effectively killing it.
Remember that dry yeast must first rehydrate (in your dough mix or in water) before it can start it’s job … you can test the yeast by using a little sugar in water adding the yeast and wait until it starts bubbling.
Yeast is killed at temps. over 42 C
BTW, there is no ‘fast’ bread baking in a baker’s dictionary …[/quote]
Can I still use the instant yeast on a regular setting? I have a whole pack sitting in the fridge.
Have been careful not to let the yeast come into contact with any sugar or salt. I put the yeast in at the end in a little hole I make in the flour.
Wrong … put the salt last … sugar can go in between, but in a non-sweet bread you can not use more than 2% sugar (of the flour weight) … in a sweet bread there is loads more yeast in …
Yeast needs ‘sugars’ to live and multiply … but not too much …
Hold the salt on the side rim … until most of the flour is mixed in …
And really, to get a flavorful bread it can not be done quickly … a quick bread is made without yeast, other leavening agents are used …
[quote=“Belgian Pie”]Wrong … put the salt last … sugar can go in between, but in a non-sweet bread you can not use more than 2% sugar (of the flour weight) … in a sweet bread there is loads more yeast in …
Yeast needs ‘sugars’ to live and multiply … but not too much …
Hold the salt on the side rim … until most of the flour is mixed in …
And really, to get a flavorful bread it can not be done quickly … a quick bread is made without yeast, other leavening agents are used …[/quote]
No, not the salt with the yeast in water … dry yeast in lukewarm water with a little sugar, than … flour, remaining sugar, yeast mix … than salt, fat (shortening, oil, margarine, butter) …
You never put yeast and salt, sugar together in water … test the yeast in water and some sugar … instant dry yeast can be mixed in the flour, than mixed with water and sugar … than salt.
Thanks Belgian Pie- think the problem may have been that I didn’t mix the yeast in water to start with (which I thought was unnecessary for instant yeast).
Have tried a new loaf following your method - hopefully in a couple of hours I will finally have a proper loaf out!
Thanks Belgian Pie- think the problem may have been that I didn’t mix the yeast in water to start with (which I thought was unnecessary for instant yeast).
Have tried a new loaf following your method - hopefully in a couple of hours I will finally have a proper loaf out![/quote]
Mawv, you’re using ‘instant yeast’ (usually bought in large foil packs in baking supply shops) so as BP says, it can be mixed in the flour; unlike ADY (active dry yeast, what supermarkets tend to carry) it does not need to be soaked in water first. It does not hurt to add it to water first, but for all but the driest (e.g. bagel) doughs this is not necessary. However, it is advisable to proof (test) any yeast once every now and then for viability by adding it to some barely warm water along with a tsp of sugar and waiting 10 min. to see if it foams up.
Second, weigh, don’t measure your ingredients, especially the flour. If you DO measure the flour, lift it by spoonfuls from your flour bag and drop, don’t press, them into your cup, then level the cup by scraping off with a knife. Do not pack it, and never ever dip your measuring cup into your flour bag to fill it, as this packs more flour in, and your flour to liquid ratio will be significantly off, which can result in a dense, short loaf. Also note that if you change part of the regular flour specified in a recipe to whole grain flour of your own accord, you’ll need to up the water slightly, as bran absorbs lots of water, and your dough may be dry and the loaf short and dense if you don’t adjust like this.
Third, dough needs to rise to double the first time, and then needs to rise to between 60-100% when proofing (before baking). You cannot set a clock to judge when it’s done. You have to actually look to see if it’s ready, and this will vary depending upon the freshness and amount of the yeast, the flour to water ratio, other ingredients, and importantly, the ambient (room) temperature. If you merely set a timer like a dumb bread machine does, the timer could go off before the dough has risen enough the first time, or before the loaf has proofed (2nd rise), and you will of course get a short, dense loaf. This is why bread machines are inferior. If you get a machine that lets you choose when to start the next cycles (e.g. punch down and later bake)
then you can overcome this problem.
Simply adding lots more yeast to force a quicker rise results in inferior flavor – not only will there be a yeasty flavor, but all the natural flavors that it takes time for yeast to produce in the dough through slow fermentation will not have had enough time. Always use the slowest setting on your machine, never the quickest, and use the smallest amount of yeast that will produce good results.
One option is to use the machine to mix a batch, adding only half the flour called for, and only 1/8th of the yeast. Pull the dough out once it’s mixed, put it in a greased bowl, cover, and after an hour in summer or 2.5 hours in winter, move it to your fridge. Pull it out the next day, let it rest at room temp a couple hours to dechill, then add the remaining yeast and flour, and let the machine resume its slowest course.
An even better option is to buy a good bread book which emphasizes the need for slow fermentation, pate fermentee, etc. like the Bread Baker’s Apprentice by Reinhart, ditch the bread machine, get a good oven, and learn to bake bread the traditional way.
[quote=“Dragonbones”][
An even better option is to buy a good bread book which emphasizes the need for slow fermentation, Pate (Bade) fermentee, etc. like the Bread Baker’s Apprentice by Reinhart, ditch the bread machine, get a good oven, and learn to bake bread the traditional way.[/quote]
). We use dry yeast and just keep it in a dark cool place (as can be in Taiwan). No problems. Our first Kaiser was actually broken! The mechanism was broken. Wondering if you have some mechanical or electrical problem? The 2nd one is perfect.