I have no sense of humour where my Saturdays are concerned. Bastard.
But on a less personal note, I didn’t mean to imply that you won’t last. I meant that a few months down the line someone is going to realise that they’ve gone into this without thinking it through, and you’ll be the first casualty.
In the meantime, do you think you could see your way to financing a boat?
Stragbasher is right to question Toesave
Toe Save,
Remember the old hockey adage “If you don’t shoot, you don’t score” or “All the shots you don’t take don’t go in”. If you need to reach your goal you need to take a chance but like in hockey even a flukey goal counts.
I am sure Toe’s getting lots of managing experience and can take a project on with more confidence. Just try out all the scenerios in your head and make you you analyze it like the Big Blue IBM chess computer.
Just remember what your priority is:
Make money for your company! and you will be fine. It may take a while but you can do it.
Take all the negative energy on the thread and turn it into a motivating
reminder for your project to prove the naysayers wrong!
Toe seems like a decent chap, its BDC I have doubts about. I met with them last year about moderating a
Stragbasher obviously hits all the important business questions.
I get the feeling that Toe Save is right now running this program solo. As with any venture, it’s all in the execution. Business success is in the execution of the idea. To execute the idea successfully, one needs a team and Forumosa is Toe Save’s team so he posted his questions here. Who knows if BDC can surround him with the tools he needs to succeed but they apparently think they need him and his ideas to make themselves succeed.
I think it would take about a month or so before we should see something tangible and get a better idea of whether or not this program can fly or ends up like the dodo. I hope he does succeed.
I am not part of anyone’s team if they’re making money out of me and I’m not getting paid.
Free advice to a commercial organisation? Yeah right.
Yes, indeed stragbasher. OTOH, we as individuals are commercial entities in our own right. Everything that we say here is “free advice” and undoubtedly helps people be more successful in ways we can’t imagine. Yet we don’t directly receive reward from it and still we continue to share and be helpful. In the end, we all gain in some way or another.
Never! I consider you a valued counsel. You, as far as I
Sure, examining ability is reasonable. But neither that activity, nor the highlighting of an unrelated past failure, should be the focus.
A Less Than Shiny Record
Lost job in 1832.
Defeated for state legislature in 1832.
Failed in business in 1833.
Sweetheart died in 1835.
Had nervous breakdown in 1836.
Defeated for Speaker in 1838.
Defeated for nomination for Congress in 1843.
Lost renomination in 1848.
Rejected for land officer in 1849.
Defeated for U.S. Senate in 1854.
Defeated for nomination for Vice President in 1856.
Again defeated for U.S. Senate in 1858.
and…
“Abraham Lincoln is, in [the opinion of many people], the greatest public figure in American history - a rare combination of an extremely effective politician and deeply compassionate and humanitarian man. But Lincoln suffered a multitude of failures and setbacks in his life which he did not let get in his way as he finally won the presidency and changed the course of history. If you have recently seen a revese in your life which has been hard to accept, look at Lincoln’s life as an example of how temporary defeat hardly need mean ultimate failure.” (( showcase.netins.net/web/creative … ilures.htm ))
Although ToeSave would probably look stupid in a stove pipe hat, you get the point.
More power to ya ToeSave.
Seeker4
Do you really see a similarity between Toesave and Abe? Perhaps you should enrol in Toesave’s venture(s). Then again, are two idiots better than one?
Do you really see a similarity between Toesave and Abe? Perhaps you should join his venture(s).[/quote]
OK…I’ll connect the dots: The Chit Chat Cafe, regardless of its history (and currently severely overpriced food and drinks), is unrelated to the BDC endeavor.
Considering ToeSave’s positive approach and willingness to try something not already defunct (standard buxiban EFL), joining him might be a good idea. Thanks.
Seeker4
What exactly is so “not defunct” about his idea. After all, he doesn’t have one - beyond those suggested by others.
You go ahead and join him; and be sure to let us know how it works out.
You’ll be belly-up in three months. I’ve seen it again and again and…
The clock is ticking. Tick, tock, tick, tock…
As the story goes, there was an ambitious guy in the 1950’s and 60’s that had an idea for a business. During the planning stages, he would meet with his senior management. At these meetings, he would propose ideas to be included in his master project. Some of these ideas were warmly received, some not, and still others were labeled completely absurd. The ambitious guy would take no idea to the execution stage unless it had first been deemed absurd by every single member of senior management. His reasoning: Unless he had reached that stage, he had not yet found anything to meet his own standard of revolutionary entertainment.
The ambitious guy was Walt Disney.
One man’s idiot is another man’s creative genius and multi-billionaire.
Sorry to wimp out, but it’s way past my bedtime. Us idiots need a lot of rest 
Seeker4
P.S. - Then again, every once in a while an idea simply stinks…I just don’t think this is one. But, as “they” say, “The devil’s in the details”.
Not so.
The Chit Chat Cafe was actively promoted here by Toe, who denied various accusations that were made until he parted ways with them - at which point he changed his tune. I think some people felt that he had misrepresented the situation, but to be honest I didn’t follow the story in enough detail to have an informed opinion. Nevertheless, I get the impression that some people still doubt Toe’s personal credibility, which has a bearing on the current situation.
Would you work for someone you don’t trust? Hold that thought, while I move on.
You only need two things to succeed. One is a foolproof plan and the other is total commitment, which stems from believing in yourself and your project.
I think Toe scores pretty highly for the latter, and if people keep pointing out the pitfalls he should be able to devise a plan that will avoid them. So he could be on to a winner, if he’s in charge of the situation enough that he’s not dictated to by events.
Actually, I’m a little puzzled as to what Toe is actually going to be doing. He’s not teaching the courses, he’s not writing them, and I doubt that he’ll be doing the sales and marketing. So he has some vague ‘in the middle’ postion that, frankly, gives me the willies.
Do you have a clear job description that defines your responsibilities and chain of command/communication?
I’m not sure who has sold who here.
Has the master Toe persuaded some people who should know better to give him a respectable salary in exchange for doing whatever he wants?
Or have they bought a Slave that will be their’s to do with as they will, that will eat shit and carry the can in exchange for less than I make right now for having fun?
(Or does your detailed job description include a bonus structure too? It should.)
I believe that eventually one party to this agreement is going to decide that they’re not getting what they thought they were going to get, and yet another contract will go down the toilet.
You do have a contract, right? You have a signed, sealed, agreement that guarantees you have a job to go to. This job isn’t going to evaporate before you start like they sometimes do, is it?
Contracts are worth shit anyway. (I’ll prove that to you when you buy me those loudmouths.) I’m in the process of renewing my ARC right now, and signed the new contract without reading it - because I don’t care what it says.
I have a good relationship with the employer, as I do with all the people I work for. The contract is merely a formality to enable the paperwork to go through. I don’t have one anywhere else, because this is a business relationship and business relationships rest on trust.
Trust, and respect actually. And that’s what’s bugging me about this.
I’ve bailed out on cntracts before where they weren’t being honoured. I’ve quit jobs where people were dicking with me. But I have never walked out on my obligations where people have treated me decently.
As I understand it, Toe has signed a contract, taken on responsibilites, and then renegued on the deal because he found something better. Which brings me back to personal credibility.
“I’m sorry, but we found someone who would teach the course for NT$50 an hour less.”
“Well, yes, I know we promised you X hours. But we got a better deal from someone else.”
In my book once you have a deal you stick with it and you don’t go looking around for better offers until you have given that deal time to mature. Business is a relationship where we share the same objectives and look out for each other. We don’t drop our business partners for no good reason.
That’s why I’m teaching someone else’s classes even though I don’t need the money and don’t want the work. My business partner needs help. And when I want time off (to go sailing in Hong Kong, as I did last year) I know that my partners will work with me to make it possible. We look after each other, we trust each other.
So, although I like the idea of what Toe wants to do, I don’t hear that little voice in my head telling me to work with him. That little voice makes most of my important decisions for me these days. When I listen to it it’s invariably right.
That little voice didn’t tell me to pursue BDC more vigorously after I interviewed them. It told me to be careful of the people who had me write a course for me recently, and then moved the goalposts. I chose to take the chance, and might even take the chance with Toe if he could put a decent offer on the table. But I wouldn’t make any meaningful commitment until I saw more evidence of real commitment from the other side.
And with that I should try and bow out of this thread, although I will continue to read. Toe is trying to do the right thing, all life is learning, and I certainly don’t wish him to fail in this. I hope it’s an enormous success and I have to eat my words, because there are far too many naysayers in the world and not enough good advice aimed at making good things happen. If you’re still there and making a go of this in six months I’ll be the one buying the drinkies.
But, one last question: 2.5 hours, twelve times? How the hell can you go sailing in that time? And I can only sail one boat at a time, although a choice of toys would be nice.
Strag has some good points. To do anything interesting and outside of Taipei, five to eight hours is more feasible. And sightseeing or adventure tourism is just re-hashing tourism English in many regards. Anything that takes place in Taiwan should consist of short one to two day weekend trips. And why should someone share bright ideas with 20 other people at Alleycats? If you want my
A quick reply…of course anyhting is possible. I just got a weekend in Kenting approved in like 10 seconds for the flagship course I am writing. Don’t sweat the small stuff…think big.
Well I think I’d like to add some thoughts here.
There was a discussion going at the start about what makes a good ESL teacher. From my experience good teachers come in many forms. But what they all share in common is a dedication to their work, and a dedication to their students. They all also share a desire to improve their teaching methods, or are at least willing to take the occasional risk. Is it a science or an art? Well, its a bit of both. You need to know what the students are going through learning wise, and you need to know what the heck you are talking about. Thats science. But you need to be creative, understand the culture, the likes of the students. Thats the art. I see many teachers who are too one way or the other. The science style is boring and clinical. Students stop caring. The artsy style creates fun, but little effective learning. The students drop out for a number of reasons. A teacher who stands in the middle of these elements can make a fun environment, where the students get the correct information, can ask for help, and can have a good chuckle.
ToeSave is a risk taker. (And a contract breaker it seems, but thats for his conscience to wrestle with) End of discussion.
As to the new “style” of learning… One thing that makes me skeptical is the mindset of the Taiwanese business employee. I have met a number of ‘good bloke’ types at senior management level, but very few people who are beyond the “company doormat” status lower down. These people simply cant operate outside of the box. Its not in their best interests to do so. Taiwanese mega-companies appear to reward slavish loyalty, Im thinking of all those old style premisis in Taoyaun county, and Xinchu, and there are many many of them. Yes Taiwan is changing rapidly, but are the people/ corporate structures changing quickly enough? I could put together a nice drama package giving the students the opportunity to discover themselves and explore their language potential, but would they sign up, would they participate if they did go along? Toe, maybe you should ask your employers if you can spend time learning about the structral systems in place in large companies. It would help you find the right balance to your activity programs. But if you are just going to ‘go bowling’ then what they heck are you really offering them for their money? Strike, spare, unlucky, its your turn. (Which they will have to pay through the nose for, if you want to offer westerners above average money. What, a 1000 dollars per hour?) Will this environment offer them the support to break their own mental molds? It seems that even the open minded big noses here are dubious as to this schemes potential. More than likely is that the employees will be ‘forced’ to attend, and will be glad when its over. They simply dont want to be ‘go-getters’. Is it a Taiwnese concept? Making money sure, but in a new way??? All in all i’d say you’d be hard pushed to find willing participants at these events. But I hope to god Im wrong. It would give me the chance to expand my own understanding of the Taiwanese.
Good luck ToeSave. The winner is the person who gets up one more time than he falls over. Let me recommend the book “Natural Born Winners’” by Robin Siegel. It helped me make a plan, and see it through. Its also motivational. If it all turns to crap I will give you a job. Its boring old buxiban work, and i’d kill you if you broke the contract… Ha ha ha.
Suggestions for ideas given for free… Like Chewy says, Id expect expense account wining and dining. Followed by dirty KTV…!
Okay, let’s deal with this once and for all. SB does not have all the facts. Yes, the contract I signed with our mutual laoban has been nullified. What is not known to the general public, which I will correct forthwith, is that a new, verbal understanding exists between us. He has given me his blessing to pursue this venture. I also continue to work for him as a consultant on various projects. There is a likelyhood that I will become his virtual head teacher. I am editing some text books he is creating. I am directing a voice over session for him. And once I get settled in my new post and have a semi-consistent schedule, I will teach for him again. So my conscience is just fine thank you very much.
And, he is a savvy businessman. There is a very good possibilty that by allowing me this opportunity, he will make even more $$$$ than he would have in keeping me.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Negatios, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I know what I am doing. I hereby cease defending myself. The wisest words on this thread so far have been the story about Walt Disney. I am gonna get a plaque made of that. So, what’s it gonna be boyz? Forumosa has a long memory. Ergo, so do I.
Let’s keep the thread on track and off personal. I have the vision and the wherewithal to pull it off. What more “credentials” do I need?
ToeRisesabove
[quote=“TomHill”]Well I think I’d like to add some thoughts here.
Exactly…I am developing a Lecture of Philosophy, have been for the last year, and am actually giving it a test run in 2 hours. I am about to challenge some very professional teachers to shoot holes in it. As I will at Alleycat’s on 8/28. I am discovering this exact thing about balance betwixt art and science. What I see is that ESL in Asia is far from a harmonious equalization as it is too heavily weighted in the science. Like all religions, we need to take the good and discard the rest. And we need to add copious amounts of Artistic Creativity to the scales. Once you, as educator, find this balance (truly personal, different strokes for all us folks), then you can understand how to best serve your students. What I hope to accomplish is simply an environment, a collective, an ensemble of professionals that help each other be the best they can be and have the most fun while doing it. Hey, I prefer to wake up in the morning excited about going to work over the darker moods I arose with all during my Kojen tenure (contract completed, irrespective of how much I hated the DragonLady I worked for) and the latter days of WSI (contract completed as well).
[quote=“TomHill”]
3) As to the new “style” of learning… One thing that makes me skeptical is the mindset of the Taiwanese business employee. I have met a number of ‘good bloke’ types at senior management level, but very few people who are beyond the “company doormat” status lower down. These people simply cant operate outside of the box. Its not in their best interests to do so. Taiwanese mega-companies appear to reward slavish loyalty, I’m thinking of all those old style premisis in Taoyaun county, and Xinchu, and there are many many of them. Yes Taiwan is changing rapidly, but are the people/ corporate structures changing quickly enough? I could put together a nice drama package giving the students the opportunity to discover themselves and explore their language potential, but would they sign up, would they participate if they did go along? Toe, maybe you should ask your employers if you can spend time learning about the structral systems in place in large companies. It would help you find the right balance to your activity programs. But if you are just going to ‘go bowling’ then what they heck are you really offering them for their money? Strike, spare, unlucky, its your turn. (Which they will have to pay through the nose for, if you want to offer westerners above average money. What, a 1000 dollars per hour?) Will this environment offer them the support to break their own mental molds? It seems that even the open minded big noses here are dubious as to this schemes potential. More than likely is that the employees will be ‘forced’ to attend, and will be glad when its over. They simply dont want to be ‘go-getters’. Is it a Taiwnese concept? Making money sure, but in a new way??? All in all I’d say you’d be hard pushed to find willing participants at these events. But I hope to god I’m wrong. It would give me the chance to expand my own understanding of the Taiwanese.[/quote]
Man, you guys fixate on my words so literally. Listen, when I write, its a stream of conciousness. I don’t want to edit my thoughts. Bowling, Sailing, Hockey League, these are stimuli to get you to think of your own limits and how to supercede them. But, for the record:
I disagree with TH about conforming to standard operating procedure of Taiwanese corporate structuring. Taiwan is changing, but sometimes it really feels like 2 steps forward and 3 steps back. Why can we not be some catalysts of that change? How much of a catalyst you are depends on you. Personally, I will be teaching the flagship course for Core&Corner, directly challenging the top echelons of this very structure. I am in the position to interact with CEOs…and interact I will. Take a look at my few forays into political discussion. I am ridiculous. Just ask Okami. But these ridiculous notions force them to defend their structures when I use topics such as Taiwan disarming completely as fodder for discussion. I try to get them hopping mad so they stop thinking about creating perfection and just speak.
I also disagree because historically Chinese people will accomplish anything, if they are lead to it. 1 million Communists are leading 1.3 billion Chinese to the brink of self-destruction. Do they try and stop it? No, they conform and rationalize it.
In my world, you are not a teacher, you are a leader. You can get your students to do anything if you do it with the right blend of energy, intelligence, animation and humour. Hell, prep isn’t even that important.
hey, no threatening…I almost got banned yesterday because I let my vitriole get the better of me. If I broke my contract with you, you’d be giving me your blessing as my current Laoban has. And this stuff about getting back up? I am so due baby. And the bases are loaded, game 7 yanks, balh blah blah…I am gonna park this one.
The see ya later 'tater, Goodbye, Mr. Spalding…
Thanks for the job offer tho…I don’t do kids no more tho…If it ever comes down to that, I go scuba diving until a shark eats my face off.
Someone has to say it…What the Tom Hill are you talking about? hehehehe
Well, suffice it to say we’ll work something out. Although your way sounds way fun, I think that we are going to offer a stipend by way of commissoning your outlines. I am working on procedural…erm…thoughts right now, but I invite you all to come up with some serious thoughts of your own about how you would like to be compensated for your syllabus creation. This will be on the agenda for our first AlleyCat’s night, 8/28…6:00PM.
Bear this in mind. Without you, there is no course. You are the draw. It is your very uniqueness that protects your interests. I have no desire to teach Strag’s (I will now continue use of this epithet until he relinquishes his obsession with ToeTrolling) sailing course…and yes Strag…you will teach a sailing course for me, regardless of all your fears.
ToePredicts
PS…to all…thank you for your committment to my thread…I am now realizing a small dream in that I am getting paid to be 'umosan.
Toe,
I apologise first and foremost for the contract breaking references. I had meant them in jest, but I see they were inappropriate. 
Please accept my apologies.
I agree with your philosophy of teaching, but I would add that it must be possible to work for big corps like Kojen and still wake up feeling excited about going to work. Let your life inside the classroom be separate from the crap that goes on in the office, thats my motto. I have worked as a teacher in at least 50 schools, all with a different ethos, but I still feel happy everyday cos essentially its me and the students. ( i was a supply teacher, before you ask.)
My reference to ‘bowling’… I mean that you will have to offer more than the usual events, or they will have to be structured in an unusual way. I have been ‘handicapped bowling’ before, where you have to bowl from a wheelchair, or wearing a paper-bag to remove your vision. Give it an extra twist. Also as these events will be mostly corporate they’d need an element of team-building.
I guess I didnt want to convey the message ‘conform’ to standards. I was serious about spending time knowing the corporate structures. Know thine enemy and all that. Mrs Hill, a life long true blue, still cant get her head round the whole thing. She often asks, am I seen as successful, or as a total bitch? People in big corps are ants, like it or not. Such people aren’t necessarily waiting for these opportunities that you talk of, so you will need to consider the best way to get them to participate.
I add at the end that I was really offering you my cautionary advice. No threatening, no insults. I have however been in Taiwan so long that the ‘tough love’ effect has ingrained itself. Know what I mean?
Good luck, i really mean it.
HillHeals 