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Work Teaching English in Taiwan
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[quote=“TomHill”]Toe,
I apologise first and foremost for the contract breaking references. I had meant them in jest, but I see they were inappropriate. :blush: Please accept my apologies.
I agree with your philosophy of teaching, but I would add that it must be possible to work for big corps like Kojen and still wake up feeling excited about going to work. Let your life inside the classroom be separate from the crap that goes on in the office, thats my motto. I have worked as a teacher in at least 50 schools, all with a different ethos, but I still feel happy everyday cos essentially its me and the students. ( I was a supply teacher, before you ask.)
My reference to ‘bowling’… I mean that you will have to offer more than the usual events, or they will have to be structured in an unusual way. I have been ‘handicapped bowling’ before, where you have to bowl from a wheelchair, or wearing a paper-bag to remove your vision. Give it an extra twist. Also as these events will be mostly corporate they’d need an element of team-building.
I guess I didn’t want to convey the message ‘conform’ to standards. I was serious about spending time knowing the corporate structures. Know thine enemy and all that. Mrs Hill, a life long true blue, still cant get her head round the whole thing. She often asks, am I seen as successful, or as a total bitch? People in big corps are ants, like it or not. Such people aren’t necessarily waiting for these opportunities that you talk of, so you will need to consider the best way to get them to participate.

I add at the end that I was really offering you my cautionary advice. No threatening, no insults. I have however been in Taiwan so long that the ‘tough love’ effect has ingrained itself. Know what I mean?

Good luck, I really mean it.

HillHeals :smiley:[/quote]

TH,

U rock. I got tough skin. I didn’t need it wih regard to your post. Your comments are spot on and great food for thought. Don’t worry about pulling your punches. I want everyone to shoot holes in my theories…that’s how I deepen the discussion.

I still disagree about familiarization with the inner workings. I’ve seen enough. I hear it every night from the future Mrs Save. I want no part of it. I will stomp the anthill and force them to rebuild…as far as their preconcieved notions of learning a language goes. This is my way. It may not be your way or anyone else’s for that matter. But I bet you would learn a thing or 2 from watching me in action.

Whether it’s creating a flying army of hand washers in Yoyo Ban or forcing a class of professionals to speed date…I always challenge. Its my way. I use face against them. SB led me to freshtreks…and that led me to bungee jumping. What better way to face your fears? On the way down they have to scream in English or do it again. I really like the blind bowling, but isn’t their English speaking ability the same as a disability? Not to :flog: , but if the other team gets a strike, you have to do some English task.

We had a meeting today and have already come up with a number of challenges facing us. I look forward to meeting all those interested in learning more about the project at Alleycats next week. I think we’ll have a very stimulating conversation and I know we’ll have some excellent pizza.

ToeWinWins

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Perrenial Lurker…

TK… is not at his post…

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Not so.

The Chit Chat Cafe was actively promoted here by Toe, who denied various accusations that were made until he parted ways with them - at which point he changed his tune. I think some people felt that he had misrepresented the situation, but to be honest I didn’t follow the story in enough detail to have an informed opinion. Nevertheless, I get the impression that some people still doubt Toe’s personal credibility, which has a bearing on the current situation.

Would you work for someone you don’t trust?[/quote]
In a perfect world, no. I have in the past though as has everyone reading this thread most likely. That said, your points are well taken.

When I contributed all of the upbeat quotations and stories (Lincoln, Disney), I was just trying to make a point, chose to be the

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Jeez, seeker, you’re turning on the great Toe. My turn to swap hats now.

Sure, a person’s past actions may indicate his future behaviour - but people are able to learn from their mistakes and consciously modify their behaviour.

A little book that I’m fond of dipping into occasionally advocates keeping a record of your mistakes, analysing every situation that goes bad and noting everything you did that contributing to the failure, actively criticizing yourself to find the flaws in your methods.

And having done this, you are supposed to look back through your record regularly and say - “Wow, what a valuable lesson. I must remember to do so-and-so differently next time.”

Toe’s ‘mistake’ was not to be involved with Chit Chat. Toe’s mistake was to give the impression that he was trying to take advantage of people, which has created a negative feeling that is still remembered. Hopefully he has learned from that and will choose his words more carefully in future - but he still has to overcome the poor reputation that he is starting out with.

The disney story doesn’t impress me, by the way. History doesn’t record the millions of people with off-the-wall ideas that never amount to anything. For every Disney or Bill Gates there’s a thousand Wallaces teaching their dogs to clean windows.

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Just pointing out both sides and trying to be balanced.

Agree, that was my original point.

You’re just a tough guy to impress. I’ll have to try harder next time! :laughing:

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I am pretty much unimpressible these days, but send me some money and you may succeed.

I wanted to add a link to this thread, which was started by the next Disney, Gates, or Clive Sinclair: [Teleoperated Deskoid Robotic Communication PC

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[quote=“stragbasher”]

Toe’s ‘mistake’ was not to be involved with Chit Chat. Toe’s mistake was to give the impression that he was trying to take advantage of people, which has created a negative feeling that is still remembered. Hopefully he has learned from that and will choose his words more carefully in future - but he still has to overcome the poor reputation that he is starting out with.[/quote]

It is becoming apparent that subtlety and nuance can really lead to some misunderstandings. This quoted text for example. What Strag is referring to was when I posted something to the effect that everyones’ fears about ChitChat were actually true, that ChitChat was just trying to lure them into English teaching for beans (arr, arr, arr…coffee beans…arr, arr, arr).

Now, is Strag intimating that I gave the impression, thereby telling us, the reader that he, Strag, knows that my about-face was the vindictive sarcasm of me rage, rage, raging against the dying of the light? Does he tell us that I was joking but misunderstood?

Or, does he, Strag, give the impression or intimate that I willingly deceived everyone, thereby telling us, the readers, that he, Strag, considers me a liar?

Hard to say huh?

If you had kept reading after that “confession”, you’d have read where Durin’s Bane calls my credibility into question due to this “admission”…

I immediately replied by saying that it was indeed a joke. Maybe I can be clear here…now…

ChitChat don’t want your English. Never has, never will. It is just a vacuous, over-priced Coffee Shopp…

Any claims to the otherwise were bred of me just being sick and tired of everyone being so suspicious of the place and my exasperation with said place. Sorry for the confusion.

In fact, I want to extend that apology beyond this confusion to all confusion my flip, stream-of-conciousness style may have caused to any and all. Let me say that I also am learning alot from this thread.

Now, I enjoyed the Walt Disney story as a metaphor for process. Obviously, things must be well-planned.

A dryer, more reposed, business-like Toe may have quoted this as being the most relevant and salient reminder of how to do business successfully:

In fact, this is what I chose to print today and give to my team that will assist me in developing a plan. A plan I will share with all my pizza buddies Saturday night…at AlleyCats…6:00 PM. But I digress.

You guys are really opening my eyes to alot of things. I am listening very hard. But the personal trust issues from people who don’t know me are taking their toll. People who know me know me to be pretty straightforward and always goofy. I like to make people laugh. that’s my raison d’etre for pretty much life itself. And I want to share a really great idea with a very worthy community…Forumosa.

Please read the ChitChat thread if you still need to flog that dead horse…but I was in charge of nothing there. Time to take the horse to the glue factory…please…

In exchange, I will temper my hubris with due humility. My enthusiasm is only an attempt to try and share with you how excited I am about the potential. Come for beer and pizza and let’s talk this out…I will present our brushstrokes to you and then decide for yourself.

If you have some trust issues still, can u do me the honor of PMing me first and if I can’t satisfy you with my answers, by all means, take it public. But I fear my attempts to be funny, subtle and nuance-laden are casting shadows where they don’t belong.

Toe :notworthy:

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Ah don’t worry - such is the nature of a public forum. I wouldn’t say the audience is entirely hostile. :wink:

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Nuances? Online? You have to be joking. Even the smartest of us can be complete knuckleheads sometimes.

Keep It Short and Simple.

But I agree, let’s forget about Chit Chat and concentrate on buying some boats. Although I wanted to give Mr Pendulous a hard time at first that’s getting boring. I have a policy of looking out for the pitfalls with anything new, listening to the little voice in my head (not the little one in my pants), and then giving things a whirl anyway.

Think of it as investing a small amount of risk capital. Instead of money you give some of your time, which is worth money. You just have to ask yourself if the potential return on your investment is worth risking the loss for.

If nothing else, the indomitable thing that donkeys don’t have is pouring enough enthusiasm into this that you have to believe that he’s in with a chance. And having browbeaten these people into hiring him maybe he can also make them finance Toe’s Manwhoring Service? Or whatever.

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Okay. News:

I just got out of a meeting with the powers that be and have negotiated a starting salary of $800NT/Hour. Upon completion of your first course and based on member feedback, you will be eligible for up to a $200NT/Hour bump. So, we will be paying $1000NT/hr.

Secondly, each course you teach will have a TA. Guess what? You get to hire your own TA. We will discuss this further at the Pizza Intakes at Alleycats.

Our first PI is this Saturday. Follow these instructions to book your pie.

ToeRecruits

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Ouch! Plus travel then?

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Why does one need a TA? Or is the idea to bring some eye candy to the class? :howyoudoin:

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Why does one need a TA? Or is the idea to bring some eye candy to the class? :howyoudoin:[/quote]

It is optional to have a TA. Say your course requires the running of a slide show or power point…or if you want to film your students…lots of reasons for a TA.

And eye candy…

ToeDrools

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What about a class on porn watching? For 12 classes we could drink beer, watch porn, and I could teach the lewdest most-vile slang around. I guarantee they would enjoy this class and could actually use the slang for a variety of social occasions. I would even have a

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Yes, I would like to work for NT800 an hour piloting and teaching a course I spent hours writing and which I will no doubt be required to submit to my employer to use as he/she sees fit in the future.

Signed _____________________

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Why watch

I prefer participation sports…
A full bore porn class with all the accompanying terminology and vocab…
"I love it when you *** your *** in my ***… use your imagination

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[quote=“Chewycorns”]What about a class on porn watching? For 12 classes we could drink beer, watch porn, and I could teach the lewdest most-vile slang around. I guarantee they and would enjoy this class and could actually use the slang for a variety of social occasions. I would even have a

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[quote=“Weary Queen”]Yes, I would like to work for NT800 an hour piloting and teaching a course I spent hours writing and which I will no doubt be required to submit to my employer to use as he/she sees fit in the future.

Signed _____________________[/quote]

Jaded Queen,

Blah, blah, blah…

I have said again and again that the copyright is protected by your own uniqueness. How the hell am I going to teach Strag’s Sailing course??? How are you going to teach my theatre course???

I have also said that you will be commissioned for writing the syllabus.

Please go steal someone else’s dreams. You contribute nothing to this conversation.

ToeImportunes

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It sounds like a highly reasonable deal you’re putting on the table there, Toe.

No matter that I may be used to earning much more per hour for my labour, I’d find it an enticing proposition even if it paid next to nothing.

I envy those who are sufficiently unencumbered by other responsibilities that they are able to commit large chunks of their time and energy to your venture.

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I don’t want to teach practical pornography with you watching, no matter how much you pay me.

But honestly, Toe, it’s all about the Sun Yat Sens. 800/hour PLUS taxi fare is not even standard for corporate gigs. You can get more than that for run of the mill stuff. You want special but don’t pay special you look like you want to exploit people. You want creativity, which requires work and extra skills/experience, you have to recognise the value of those skills and experience. That means you have to pay people more than Hess.

You may laugh, but I did some corporate classes (Telecoms, oil industry, clothing) for Hess. They gave me an ARC and paid me 600/hr, with a guarantee of 14 hrs per week. Do the math. But I never taught more than ten hours a week, and they paid an average of another grand a week for transport. Do the math again. They even paid me to go their corporate headquarters and teach their admin staff how to speak English. (Must’ve been a shortage of teachers at Hess that month?)

It was easy work, and I had the flexibility to be creative as long as the basic bookwork was completed. You want more than that, for less reward and the only justification you are offering is the opportunity to be ‘outside the box’.

I don’t even know what this box is that you’re referring to. Point it out to me, show me the limits I’m unaware of, because the only one I’m aware of is that I’m not making enough money yet to achieve my goals. And offering that kind of money before even talking to people about their ideas sounds like limits have already been set.

If this was just about short-term gratification I wouldn’t be in Taiwan - I would have taken that ride to the Caribbean on that 60-foot yacht instead of coming here. But I didn’t. I chose to put my skills and talents to use in the service of my future life. The more of those skills and talents I use the more unique - and logically the more valuable - I become. Therefore the reward should be greater. This is only attractive if it offers the opportunity to achieve more than we are doing already, and I don’t think there are many of us here who measure our achievements in terms of face.

If you’re going to pay less than Hess, then Alleycat’s is going to be full of new graduates from Vancouver on Saturday night. I’ll be there anyway, because Alan confirmed that he got some Bacardi in and I want to hear what you have to say. So while I’m there I’ll talk to you about how much I get paid for newspaper editing and boyscouting with high school kids. Other than that, I promise to try and keep my mouth shut.

For free, here’s a model answer for you: