Crime and Countries

Politics International Politics
21

I think it’s a more a breakdown of the political/legal system. Look at what happened to Tony Martin. He was a British farmer whose home had been broken into several times. He finally shot 2 burglars killing one. Martin was sentenced to prison and was recently released on parole (over the objections of the parole board).

tonymartinsupportgroup.org/

newarkadvertiser.co.uk/featu … npview.htm

From The Telegraph:

Tony Martin refused leave ‘because of risk to burglars’

By Daniel Foggo
(Filed: 20/07/2003)

Tony Martin, the farmer who killed a criminal who broke into his house, has been denied a preparatory home visit before his release on parole next week because he is considered to be a “danger to burglars”.

In a meeting last week with the wing governor at his prison and Annette Stewart, his probation officer, Martin was told that he had been refused a trial three-day home release because the authorities felt that he might reoffend even during that short space of time.

It is normal practice for prisoners awaiting release to be given a few days outside to introduce them gradually to the prospect of regaining their liberty.

It had been thought that Martin had previously not been given the home visit because of fears over the security of his property. Concerns have been raised about Martin’s safety after his life was threatened by friends of the teenager he killed.

The revelation that the probation authorities are still reluctant to let him go, even so close to his release, sparked fury from his supporters last night. Malcolm Starr, a close friend, said: “This is the final insult.”

Henry Bellingham, Martin’s MP, who visited the farmer in prison last week, will take up the snub with the Government. He said: "I will be writing to the Home Secretary about this, it is quite extraordinary.

“Tony Martin has been turned into a political prisoner. The Probation Service is being vindictive. Even the matter of a house visit, a standard request for him to be treated normally, has been spiked and I find it stunning.”

The 58-year-old farmer related the conversation with Ms Stewart in a letter to Peter Sainsbury, the general secretary of the POW Trust, a charity which has been supporting Martin.

In the correspondence, a copy of which has been supplied to this newspaper, Martin said: “There was a meeting today after Malcolm [Starr] visited with the parole board for home visit. They still consider me dangerous.”

It is understood that Ms Stewart questioned Martin about his views on the burglar he shot dead, Fred Barras. Martin replied that he was “not going down that route again”.

Mr Sainsbury has now written to the governor of Highpoint, the category C prison in Suffolk where Martin is being held, demanding an explanation in writing.

A reply to Mr Sainsbury’s letter from the governor, which was handed to Martin directly on Friday, states that the home visit was not granted because he “did not fit the criteria”.

Ms Stewart has previously written a report on Martin which was submitted to the Parole Board before its ruling in January. In it she said that Martin’s support base in the country had made him more likely to reoffend.

“This is a case which has attracted immense and ongoing media attention and public interest,” she wrote. "I believe this has had an impact on Mr Martin’s own perceptions of his behaviour and his right to inflict punishment on those whom he perceives to be a threat to his own security.

“Indeed this may have contributed to his justification of the offending. This encapsulation of his views has served to disallow any rational contemplation by Mr Martin of his crimes and he does not express any remorse for the death of one so young.”

Martin was convicted of murdering Barras, 16, and wounding his accomplice, Brendan Fearon, 33, during a burglary at the farmer’s home in Emneth Hungate, Norfolk, in August 1999. This was reduced on appeal to manslaughter. He became eligible for early release last autumn, at the discretion of the Parole Board, after having served half of his sentence.

Although this was turned down he is now automatically entitled to parole having completed two thirds of his prison term. Fearon, who has more than 30 criminal convictions and is currently in jail, is seeking compensation from Martin under the Human Rights Act. Last night Mr Sainsbury described the refusal of a home visit for Martin as “absolutely appalling”.

“There has been no process by the Prison Service to fit him back into the community,” he said.

"Why is he not in an open prison now for a start? Normally prisoners are transferred to open conditions prior to their release to allow them to readjust, but not Mr Martin.

"The Parole Board have gone out of their way to stop him being released. He should have been released last September, which was his earliest possible release date.

“Then an idiot probation officer said he should not get it because he was a danger to burglars and now this. It is one insult after another.”

22

news.yahoo.com/fc?tmpl=fc&cid=34 … at=prisons

23

“Uniquely tough drug laws” in the US? Try possessing that stuff in Singapore, Malaysia or Thailand. :wink:[/quote]

It always helps, Rascal, when you understand the context of any comment made.

Several times upthread, I said among “developed countries”. The comparisons being made were between the U.S., Western Europe, Canada, Austalia (etc.) and Japan.

While Singapore is now considered by many to be among the world’s developed countries, it’s still most often not included as one of them in these broad international comparisons. The Economist magazine, for example, still includes it among the emerging economies in the back of its magazine when it reviews the status of many of the world’s markets.

24

[quote=“Cold Front”]

While Singapore is now considered by many to be among the world’s developed countries, it’s still most often not included as one of them in these broad international comparisons. The Economist magazine, for example, still includes it among the emerging economies in the back of its magazine when it reviews the status of many of the world’s markets.[/quote]

I don’t know about that. Singapore is ranked second in recent quality of life reports.

25

I think it’s a more a breakdown of the political/legal system. Look at what happened to Tony Martin. He was a British farmer whose home had been broken into several times. He finally shot 2 burglars killing one. Martin was sentenced to prison and was recently released on parole (over the objections of the parole board).

tonymartinsupportgroup.org/

newarkadvertiser.co.UK/featu … npview.htm

From The Telegraph:

Tony Martin refused leave ‘because of risk to burglars’

By Daniel Foggo
(Filed: 20/07/2003)

Tony Martin, the farmer who killed a criminal who broke into his house, has been denied a preparatory home visit before his release on parole next week because he is considered to be a “danger to burglars”.

In a meeting last week with the wing governor at his prison and Annette Stewart, his probation officer, Martin was told that he had been refused a trial three-day home release because the authorities felt that he might reoffend even during that short space of time.

It is normal practice for prisoners awaiting release to be given a few days outside to introduce them gradually to the prospect of regaining their liberty.

It had been thought that Martin had previously not been given the home visit because of fears over the security of his property. Concerns have been raised about Martin’s safety after his life was threatened by friends of the teenager he killed.

The revelation that the probation authorities are still reluctant to let him go, even so close to his release, sparked fury from his supporters last night. Malcolm Starr, a close friend, said: “This is the final insult.”

Henry Bellingham, Martin’s MP, who visited the farmer in prison last week, will take up the snub with the Government. He said: "I will be writing to the Home Secretary about this, it is quite extraordinary.

“Tony Martin has been turned into a political prisoner. The Probation Service is being vindictive. Even the matter of a house visit, a standard request for him to be treated normally, has been spiked and I find it stunning.”

The 58-year-old farmer related the conversation with Ms Stewart in a letter to Peter Sainsbury, the general secretary of the POW Trust, a charity which has been supporting Martin.

In the correspondence, a copy of which has been supplied to this newspaper, Martin said: “There was a meeting today after Malcolm [Starr] visited with the parole board for home visit. They still consider me dangerous.”

It is understood that Ms Stewart questioned Martin about his views on the burglar he shot dead, Fred Barras. Martin replied that he was “not going down that route again”.

Mr Sainsbury has now written to the governor of Highpoint, the category C prison in Suffolk where Martin is being held, demanding an explanation in writing.

A reply to Mr Sainsbury’s letter from the governor, which was handed to Martin directly on Friday, states that the home visit was not granted because he “did not fit the criteria”.

Ms Stewart has previously written a report on Martin which was submitted to the Parole Board before its ruling in January. In it she said that Martin’s support base in the country had made him more likely to reoffend.

“This is a case which has attracted immense and ongoing media attention and public interest,” she wrote. "I believe this has had an impact on Mr Martin’s own perceptions of his behaviour and his right to inflict punishment on those whom he perceives to be a threat to his own security.

“Indeed this may have contributed to his justification of the offending. This encapsulation of his views has served to disallow any rational contemplation by Mr Martin of his crimes and he does not express any remorse for the death of one so young.”

Martin was convicted of murdering Barras, 16, and wounding his accomplice, Brendan Fearon, 33, during a burglary at the farmer’s home in Emneth Hungate, Norfolk, in August 1999. This was reduced on appeal to manslaughter. He became eligible for early release last autumn, at the discretion of the Parole Board, after having served half of his sentence.

Although this was turned down he is now automatically entitled to parole having completed two thirds of his prison term. Fearon, who has more than 30 criminal convictions and is currently in jail, is seeking compensation from Martin under the Human Rights Act. Last night Mr Sainsbury described the refusal of a home visit for Martin as “absolutely appalling”.

“There has been no process by the Prison Service to fit him back into the community,” he said.

"Why is he not in an open prison now for a start? Normally prisoners are transferred to open conditions prior to their release to allow them to readjust, but not Mr Martin.

"The Parole Board have gone out of their way to stop him being released. He should have been released last September, which was his earliest possible release date.

“Then an idiot probation officer said he should not get it because he was a danger to burglars and now this. It is one insult after another.”[/quote]

After about 30 criminal convictions, don’t they cut off your hands or something. maybe hobble one foot so you can’t run or climb?
i wonder what kind of human rights violations this guy Fearon is alleging?

26

That’s included in my formula “uniquely tough drug laws”.[/quote]

Aren’t some of the major cartels sourcing the drug trade working with the CIA? there was a post here that an arrested drug dealer was later let out the back door, so to speak, after the CIA made some calls. how does the police, DEA, etc fight a drug war with this kind of crap (ok, so maybe this is a tiny number, but if he was a top lieutenant or something)

27

FB –

“Developed” usually refers to the productiveness and diversification of a country’s economy. Your article refers to crime in cities.

There are two reasons why Singapore is often not included among developed countries.

  1. Its small size exaggerates the quality of its economy. It’s easier for a city to have higher GDP per capita than it is for a country with a large rural area and population that tend to act as a drag on a national economy.

  2. The Singaporean government itself recently decided against calling itself a developed country, even after the OECD decided to label it one. I read that news about two years ago; it may have changed since.

28

[quote=“Cold Front”]FB –

“Developed” usually refers to the productiveness and diversification of a country’s economy. Your article refers to crime in cities.
[/quote]

But that’s what we’re talking about on this thread, isn’t it?

29

[quote=“fredericka bimmel”][quote=“Cold Front”]FB –

“Developed” usually refers to the productiveness and diversification of a country’s economy. Your article refers to crime in cities.
[/quote]

But that’s what we’re talking about on this thread, isn’t it?[/quote]

Yes, but in making comparisons between countries on any subject, social scientists usually like to compare similar cases (apples to apples, oranges to oranges) when they can.

One way to do this is to control for socio-economic factors. That is, you only use case studies of similarly developed countries so that when an exception among them stands out for some reason, it helps the scientist to pinpoint why it stands out.

If you use a whole bunch of dissimilar countries, then it’s harder to pinpoint why, for example, the U.S. has a relatively high murder rate or why it incarcerates a relatively high percentage of its citizens.

30

One reason obviously why Singapore makes a bad comparison with every other developed country is because it has such a strongly paternal government.

I like Singapore and I like its government. (Liberals give it far too much shit – the government’s success speaks for itself.) But few of the solutions Singapore uses to control crime are likely to pass muster anywhere else in the developed world.

31

That’s included in my formula “uniquely tough drug laws”.[/quote]

Aren’t some of the major cartels sourcing the drug trade working with the CIA? there was a post here that an arrested drug dealer was later let out the back door, so to speak, after the CIA made some calls. how does the police, DEA, etc fight a drug war with this kind of crap (ok, so maybe this is a tiny number, but if he was a top lieutenant or something)[/quote]

I don’t know about this. It sounds a lttle flaky. Allegations of this sort against the CIA are often floated by people who have something against the organization. Are there rogue elements in the CIA? Sure. Has the CIA sometimes done work that caused more problems than it solved? Sure. But those are entirely different than claiming the CIA is actually working for the drug trade.

32

Is there anywhere to find the information you’re talking about? Like which countries/cities are the best for living in all those socio-economic regards. Internationally speaking.

33

Sure, there are all kinds of places. Just google. However, Singapore will be at the top or competitive in almost all of them.

The comment I made was focused on deeper economic patterns than what is normally covered in the kind of comparison targeted for the media to use.

First World Per Capita Income But Third World Income Structure: Wage Share and Productivity Improvement in Singapore (PDF File)

34

By the way, I don’t have a vested interest in proving Singapore a Third World country. I admitted from the beginning that Singapore is often grouped as a First World country by many people for many reasons. I simply wanted to show why the city-state is often still not included in some kinds of comparisons. It’s a marginal case, as is Hong Kong, and, increasingly, Taiwan and South Korea.

But if you feel it’s important for me to include Singapore as a first world country, then, yes, I would then have to amend my original statement that said U.S. drug laws are “uniquely tough”.

35

Sounds like no charges will be filed against either the artist or the burglar. . . .
story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s … in_head_dc

[quote]Burglar Finds Bacon Head, Calls Police
Tue Aug 19,10:53 AM ET

LONDON (Reuters) - A British burglar who stumbled on a work of art that he mistook for a human head in a pickle jar was so spooked that he summoned the police to a house he had robbed.

Conceptual artist Richard Morrison had made the head from bacon wrapped around a wire frame floating in a jar of formaldehyde.

After the burglar phoned, police bashed down Morrison’s door to raid his house, near Liverpool in northern England. Morrison returned home to find that his house had been broken into twice, once by the burglar and once by the police.

“In light of the information received, it was of vital importance that we investigated, to ensure that there was nothing suspicious,” Detective Chief Inspector Stephen Naylor of Merseyside Police said in a statement on Tuesday.

“The reason for the damage was explained to Mr Morrison and we apologized. Arrangements are in place to replace the door.”

Morrison told The Times newspaper he understood why the burglar might have been confused by his artwork.

“It’s obviously a very macabre piece of work and I suppose at a glance it looks like a head, but I never expected it to get this reaction,” he said. “I gather the police were bracing themselves for a ‘Silence of the Lambs’ moment when they broke into my flat.”

Morrison said the police told him the scare had set the burglar on the straight and narrow.

“He had a crisis of confidence and confessed his crimes to his mother.”[/quote]

36

Mercer has some very interesting comparisons like this one here. Or klick here for their personal safety ranking which upset some of my friends from Singapore. :smiley:

37

Crimes Rates in U.S. Continue to Decline

Violent and property crimes dipped in 2002 to their lowest levels since records started being compiled 30 years ago, and have dropped more than 50 percent in the last decade, the Justice Department reported Sunday.

The annual survey by the Bureau of Justice Statistics identified about 23 million crime victims last year, down slightly from the year before and far below the 44 million recorded when studies began in 1973.

The rate of violent crimes – rapes, robberies and assaults – was about 23 victims for every 1,000 U.S. residents 12 or older last year. That compares with 25 victims per 1,000 in 2001 and 50 in 1993.

For property crimes such as burglary and car theft, the rate was 159 crimes per 1,000 last year, down from 167 the previous year and 319 in 1993.

38

That’s included in my formula “uniquely tough drug laws”.[/quote]

Aren’t some of the major cartels sourcing the drug trade working with the CIA? there was a post here that an arrested drug dealer was later let out the back door, so to speak, after the CIA made some calls. how does the police, DEA, etc fight a drug war with this kind of crap (ok, so maybe this is a tiny number, but if he was a top lieutenant or something)[/quote]
I don’t know about this. It sounds a lttle flaky. Allegations of this sort against the CIA are often floated by people who have something against the organization. Are there rogue elements in the CIA? Sure. Has the CIA sometimes done work that caused more problems than it solved? Sure. But those are entirely different than claiming the CIA is actually working for the drug trade.[/quote]

Cold front you have either forgotten or you never knew (or don’t want to remember)

Just one example: The CIA and the Contras
webcom.com/~lpease/collectio … ocaine.htm

39

I think anyone from UK, Ireland, France and similar countries would admit there is a huge level of medium level violent crime and huge rates of vandalism and property damage in those countries.
UK and Ireland are the worst for random drunken assaults on the streets or in bars and night clubs. I know quite a few people injured in basically random assaults from drunk people… facial scars, semi-blindness, minor cuts from flying glasses and of course I have seen way too many violent altercations where the guy who goes to help ends up getting beaten up.

There is an electric feel in the cities after the pubs all close at the same time and vast numbers of pissed people mill around with no easy way to get home. That makes the place exciting but dangerous at the same time.
That’s why in Ireland at the moment there is a significant backlash and alcohol control laws, smoking laws, public order etc. Maybe the UK will follow up soon.
I really believe if alcohol consumption was reduced UK and Ireland they would be 100% safer. The question is what else would people do with their time?
Play tiddly winks and marbles!

Anybody from the major cities in UK or Ireland could confirm a definite increase in gun crimes too but they are still almost exclusively confined to gang warfare, rather than the more society wide situation in the US. One thing the US, most European countries and Australia have going for them is the relative lack of this alcoholic society.
I sound like a puritan and I sure like a drink myself but alcohol has got be reckoned as the real scourge, not heroin or coke or marijuana etc.

The punishment is minor for most non-lethal violent crimes and that is also a problem.
It becomes more revealing when you live in other European countries, Australia, Taiwan etc…

40

“Lend me your ears!” :laughing:

Don’t Get Into a Bar Fight with This Guy

BERLIN (Reuters) - A British soldier stationed in Germany bit a man’s ear off after arguing with him in a bar, police in the western city of Paderborn said on Thursday.

“The row flared up inside the bar and continued outside where the soldier bit the man’s ear off,” a spokesman for police said on Thursday. It was not known if the man was drunk.

Police arrested the 23-year-old soldier after the dispute on Tuesday morning, then turned him over to British military police. Emergency services rushed the injured man, 32, to a nearby hospital where surgeons re-attached his severed left ear.

A spokesman for the 1st UK Armored Division told Reuters the incident was regrettable and was being investigated.

Some 5,000 British soldiers of the 20 Armored Brigade, part of the division, are stationed in Paderborn, a historical city where Holy Roman Emperor Charlemagne met Pope Leo III in AD 799.

Around 23,000 British soldiers are stationed in Germany.

story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s … _nm/ear_dc