Dealing with gross incompetence - Banking

Business Money
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I am new to Taiwan so am still learning on how to deal with institutions, bureaucracy and people. I have learned that on occasion you have to get a bit upset to get things moving long.

I opened a bank account the day I received my ARC. I wired money from overseas the same day. The next day I went to the bank and the money was there (to the banker’s surprise). I had to answer some moronic questions about why I needed the money, etc. The money was then put in my foreign currency account and I was able to use it. Other than spending 3 hours opening the account and another hour dealing with receiving the wire transfer, all was well.

I then had more money wired in (from a different bank). I followed exactly the same instructions. The money was sent and I received a receipt from the sender of the wire showing the bank’s name, my Taiwan account number, etc.

The next day I went to the bank to ‘receive’ the wire. I was told it hadn’t arrived and that it takes 2 to 3 days (I know this is absolutely not true in this day and age). Anyway, they are supposed to call me when the wire comes in (they never do).

I was busy so I came back a week later. I was told money still hadn’t arrived. I showed them the receipt of the wire again. They told me to check with the sending bank as they must have screwed up and they still have the money. I asked them to check with HQ as I know the money is here. They just blew me off. The sending banker is a private ‘platinum’ banker and would call immediately if anything was wrong or the money returned.

Anyway, contacted personal banker who of course said money is at the Taiwan bank. The wire system is pretty solid these days.

So back to my bank I went. Gave me same BS. I was too tired to scream at them or push any further.

Today I went to a different branch. Was escorted upstairs to what turned out to be more competent employees. I explained the situation to the clerks but they said I should go to the branch I opened my account at. I said they were stupid, rude and had failed.

So they worked my case. It took a while. They called the offending branch and discovered they received the money the DAY AFTER it was wired. So they knew the money arrived. I also found out they sent a message via the wire transfer system asking for the complete address of the sender (the street was missing). I was told they have to be sure who the sender is so that is why they need the street address. I mean, the sending bank is of course checking the ID of the sender and it is coming from the same account. But of course having the actual street address is very critical at this point. I have discovered that Taiwan is ultra anal about stupid useless shit.

It gets worse. They sent the message to the intermediary bank instead of the actual bank that sent it. They gave me a print out of the messages, etc. And the message they sent was horrible. It wasn’t that the English was not perfect - that is OK - but the message would not be understood by a non-Asian. And the intermediary bank is Bank of America.

So they sent a message via the wire transfer system 2 weeks ago (to the wrong bank). They expected someone at BoA to then send a message to the originating bank asking for the info and relay it back to them. I am sure BoA has tons of staff just waiting to do admin work for incompetent bankers in Asia.

They didn’t get an answer from BoA so they did nothing (for 2 weeks!). Didn’t send another message. Didn’t call anyone (certainly not me). And certainly didn’t bother to spend a minute actually thinking about the problem. They just sat on my money and sent me running around.

But they never said a word to me. In fact, I was told to go back to the sending bank as they still have the money.

Today I messaged the sending bank to send the complete address.
But I doubt they will be able to as the wire system isn’t set up like that. The wire has already gone out 2 weeks ago And I have no idea if anyone at the bank here is actually doing anything to resolve the issue. The second branch - the competent ones - is not allowed to deal with it as I am not from their branch.

Further, the second branch employees said not to complain to management or the employees will get fired. What to do?

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Complain to the manager … with a Taiwanese friend .

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Funny how they lied about the money that was there, but they lied straight to you that it was not. Typical Chinese people behavior…

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This. Your friend will take the edge of your words and generously supply superficial face saving to everyone involved. They will still get a demotion or fired, but for something else.

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Welcome to Taiwan!

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Reading this just makes my blood boil.

Suffice to say I share your pain in dealing with Taiwan banks. In my experience Taiwanese pencil pushers in all areas like to lay out little traps for you to fall in. Some fine print here, or perhaps a rule completely undocumented over there, and when you fall in they point and snigger at you. There is no concept of the ‘customer is always right’, it’s more ‘look here is where you screwed up.’

My suggestion would be to try and get in contact with the back office/settlements area who are sitting on the cash in some holding account. I.e not the mouth breathers in bad suits you talk to in the branch.

I think Taiwan is very touchy about cash coming in, as we know they are not part of the UN, and so don’t have the anti money laundering protections that brings. So logic tells me a lot of dodgy cats are trying to get their cash in here. The questions the bank asks you about the intended use of your the money, are just the bank doing paperwork required by the government. With all of the rubbish policy making I see here, I would not be surprised if the banks are just completely snowed in regulatory paper pushing to the exclusion of being able to grow their business. Perhaps that’s why all bank branches here look like sonething from a country town in the 1980s, cork countertops replete with big red LCD displays of the current queue ticket number…

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As some posters have indicated, money laundering is a thing and branch non-compliance with regulations is pretty serious. That may be why they are picking at the details with addresses and things like that.

At the same time, I would encourage the OP to find and work with a more competent branch, one that is used to dealing with foreign currencies, international customers, etc. In Taipei City, I’ve had very good luck with the Mega Bank Zhongshan branch—they know what they are doing, they are nice to me, and things get done smoothly.

Best wishes,
Guy

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About 5 years ago you could waltz into any bank and get an account lickity split.
Now they want tons of paperwork like others said likely for money laundering checks

Now you cannot just open an account unless you have a very good reason, I’ve been told the main reason is your employer must need to deposit your paycheck there and they want a copy of your work permit to prove that too.

The bank’s are very incompetent.
In my home country too

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The first time is always painful. Once you’ve managed to get it done once, it’s usually easy after that.

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Keeping this quote for later out of context usage

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I can’t be the only one that opens up the active threads in a whole bunch of tabs, and then scrolls through the tabs, with the newest post at the top. And then you get a post like this as the top one you see, without context, and you wonder what the heck is going on.

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“T.I.T.”
This is Taiwan. Welcome to the land of 差不多.

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Can’t we mark it as solution?

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I send money the other way to BofA and it’s usually the same 2 or 3 people doing it for me. I don’t use a stamp/chop, I sign my real name (never took a Chinese one). The first couple of times it was a hassle, wouldn’t accept my signature. They said anyone could write that and we can’t read it. I said you just watched me sign it, what on earth are you going on about? As if someone having a stamp with what could be anyone else’s name is any different. She said we would check their ID too, wait, didn’t you just check my ID? Blank stare. Eventually they accepted my point of view and I’ve been doing transfers for years like this.

Last month, I go in and it’s a new girl doing the transfers. We get through everything and I sign. She takes the paper to the manager and of course I know what’s coming. Can’t take this. I produce the last 6 months of transfers and ask her if this is a new policy because you’ve been accepting my hand written signature for years…do you really want to do this? They took it.

I guess there’s no point to this, I just wanted to vent…perhaps once you’ve gotten a couple done the way you want, just keep a record of them. It seems to work in making a case should someone new come in or there’s some other problem.

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The signature is a problem for me too! Even when I signed up they matched up the signature on two different forms I had to fill out and said it didn’t match. I said it changes a little bit every time. My signature is particularly bad like that, but I’ve never had a problem before coming here. But they do not understand this concept of a signature which is a little messy and changes up a bit.

When they asked for my mobile number I gave them the full international prefix. That is what they ask for in my home country when you apply for cards and accounts, because you know, we actually travel outside of the country sometimes and need to be contacted internationally. I got a patronising explanation from the banker that in Taiwan ‘we use the local 09… mobile number format, since we are in Taiwan, that is all we need.’

As far as signing, my advice to anyone would be to get and use a chop, as if I have to sign for anything at the branch again, I may as well close the damn account. Do it the Chinese way, as that is the only way that works here…

Thanks for letting me vent too.

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Lol. It is good that they check your sign. If someone forged your signature, you’d have another post talking about “gross incompetence” how they don’t even check the signature! :slight_smile:

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There is a happy medium of not being completely anal about every squiggle and dot, and not checking the signature at all. That medium does not exist at my branch. Your mileage may vary…

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hmm maybe. We cannot say for sure until we see your signs (which is not possible).

But that makes me wonder, how do people without hands handle bank forms? Do they have a personalized stamp? Illiterate people can still use thumb impression I guess.

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Yea ive had similar problems. They have to call me to confirm what the purpose of the money is for every time i wire. If im in the shower or something and i miss the call i need to wait for them to call me back… Whenever that may be. Its a hassle. It used to take 1 day to wire. Now it almost always takes 2. One time there was a public holiday so the banks would be closed for several days, i needed the money and it had taken 3 days already so it was obvious they were not going to do it. I had to physically go to the bank and tell them to do it. Stressful day.

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Funny how they lied about the money that was there, but they lied straight to you that it was not. Typical Chinese people behavior…

It’s not lying, it’s saving face.

This whole episode highlights the idiocy of “face” culture. The clerks at the original bank didn’t know what to do, but to admit to the customer would cause them to “lose face”, so they have to pretend it’s the other banks fault, or the customer’s fault, or anyone elses fault.

Ditto on the member of staff who had to write a note to the BoA - they probably didn’t know how to do it, but to ask a colleague or their boss would cause them to “lose face” so they just did whatever and handed responsibility to the intermediary bank. Also no was allowed to correct their mistake even if it was spotted, as pointing out that someone else made an error actually causes both parties to “lose face”. What a country.

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