I have a BA in Education with emphasis on Social Studies. Just curious about the possibilities of pursuing a 2nd bachelors in Chinese language or maybe a Masters in Chinese/Asian studies while in Taiwan.
What are the costs, entrance & application issues? Do I need to already be able to read Chinese? Since I lived in Taiwan twice, I can speak it OK.
Thanks for your insights.
Are you seriously asking whether you need to be able to read Chinese to get a degree in it?
Seein as we are not admissions center staff maybe your should write to to some of the universities here and ask for tht information.
Of course you could google search each universities name and look at their websites.
Yeah no need to be ablre to read Chinese to get a Degree in Chinese… not at all.
Just like you dont need to be able to read English to get a degree in America, Australia, England, NZ South Africa or Canada. .
Well, back home, when you start a B.A. degree in French, English, etc. in college, they start right from the beginning. I’ve been told it is the same in Europe. However, Taiwan is still quite closed about it and I seriously doubt a non Native would be allowed even to apply.
There is a pilot program in ShiDa, a B.A. in Chinese Language Studies for Foreigners, but the poor guys were sent to teh old overseas chinese school facilities, and are not happy campers. Hence, I cannot reccommend it. Nevertheless, AFAIK, this would be right for you.
It would be a nice addition to your studies, saying as a tool for teaching elementary Mandarin in the future.
EDIT:
Please remember there are lots of scholarships available, even if you are not from the “diplomatic allied countries”.
OK, let me rephrase that for the slow folks:
Does anyone know of a program where I can earn a 2nd Bachelor’s degree in Chinese in Taiwan without having to first be able to read Chinese to enter the program?
BTW, thanks for the info Icon . I’ll try checking into that.
I happen to know of such a program here in Taichung. Feng Chia University has a Bachelor’s in Business Admin that is conducted in English. You should also know that many universities have master’s programs conducted in English, such as NTU, NCKU, NCHU, NCTU, NTHU, NSYSU, FCU, etc. Pick a school, go to the website, and do some research!
PM if you have any specific questions. I did a lot of research on the subject last year.
[quote=“beef eater”]I happen to know of such a program here in Taichung. Feng Chia University has a Bachelor’s in Business Admin that is conducted in English. You should also know that many universities have master’s programs conducted in English, .[/quote]
[color=#0000FF]Duh… beefeater fails basic reading comprehension.[/color] Probably the education at that second rate facilty that gave that hopeless education. 
Please read what the OP wrote Does anyone know of a program where I can earn a 2nd Bachelor’s degree in Chinese
The OP is not after a degree taught in English. The OP simplly needs to be informed if there is a Bachelors Degree in Chinese where having Chinese language ability is NOT a pre-requisite to entering the degree program. 
I would think that the OP needs to have a very good ability in Chinese in all areas to undertake a Degree in Chinese in Taiwan as he would be studying with local students. Perhaps a long term Chinese language program would be suitable prior to gettng into a local degree program in Chinese. Much like what Ironlady did.
Well, back home, when you start a B.A. degree in French, English, etc. in college, they start right from the beginning. I’ve been told it is the same in Europe. However, Taiwan is still quite closed about it and I seriously doubt a non Native would be allowed even to apply.
[/quote]
Non-native speakers can apply for whatever they want and admissions standards vary, at least as far as PhD admissions are concerned (I guess for lower degrees the requirements are the same or lower). To get into the English Dept at NCCU you need a high score in HSK or the Taiwanese equivalent; to get on to Ed Psych at Shida you have to convince them that you’ll be able to follow the course. A colleague got in there without much Chinese reading skills, on the basis that much of the reading is in English.
With the single exception of Chinese, I think, you could get away without being able to read and write. Chinese/Asian studies might be OK depending on where you applied.
In the UK you can start certain language courses from scratch (Chinese or Japanese, certainly NOT French). But these are not courses mainly for native speakers of the language being learned, so it’s not clear how that analogy helps OP.
[color=#0000FF]Duh… beefeater fails basic reading comprehension.[/color] Probably the education at that second rate facilty that gave that hopeless education.
If you must know, I was making it known to him that English-taught programs are available as another option. Sorry for attempting to be helpful, sir. Now go release some tension out back. I would like to also add that I never mentioned that I am well-educated, but I sure as hell didn’t attend a “second rate [sic] facilty [sic] that gave me a hopeless education.” That whole sentence is in need of editing. My education through high school could have shown me that, of course.
Rant over.
Well, back home, when you start a B.A. degree in French, English, etc. in college, they start right from the beginning. I’ve been told it is the same in Europe. However, Taiwan is still quite closed about it and I seriously doubt a non Native would be allowed even to apply.
[/quote]
Non-native speakers can apply for whatever they want and admissions standards vary, at least as far as PhD admissions are concerned (I guess for lower degrees the requirements are the same or lower). To get into the English Dept at NCCU you need a high score in HSK or the Taiwanese equivalent; to get on to Ed Psych at Shi-Da you have to convince them that you’ll be able to follow the course. A colleague got in there without much Chinese reading skills, on the basis that much of the reading is in English.
With the single exception of Chinese, I think, you could get away without being able to read and write. Chinese/Asian studies might be OK depending on where you applied.
In the UK you can start certain language courses from scratch (Chinese or Japanese, certainly NOT French). But these are not courses mainly for native speakers of the language being learned, so it’s not clear how that analogy helps OP.[/quote]
Eh, a few things, from my humble experience:
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Non Taiwanese cannot apply for any program they want. There is a booklet -which you can get either at MOFA or MOE, that tells which universities and courses furriners can apply for.
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Current scholarship students must pass a specific tests in order to continue their studies. The Government here still expects them to manage a 4 year BA or a 2 year MA with the rest of the students after one year of Mandarin learning . Not quite logical, but still, there is a certain threshold -caveat emptor.
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Again refer to the booklet mentioned above for courses supposedly taught in English -which, as from actual practice, are only partially in English if you are lucky.
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Currently, there is only one program offering a B.A. in Chinese Studies for foreigners.
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All rules detailed above do not apply if you are Overseas Chinese -which we know get a different deal.
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I do not understand your last paragraph, but I will try to make myself clear. Back home we are native Spanish speakers, hence, getting a BA in English means you will minor in teaching, translation, literature or linguistic research. Same with French. They will test your knowledge when you start, but many people start from 0 and hence must undergo a grueling intensive one year program to get them to a working level and then on to other coursework that helps them master the language. From what my German friends tell me, they also studied Mandarin grammar, literature and history as intensively and course detailed as we did our English. That was the correlation I was building upon.
Well, back home, when you start a B.A. degree in French, English, etc. in college, they start right from the beginning. I’ve been told it is the same in Europe. However, Taiwan is still quite closed about it and I seriously doubt a non Native would be allowed even to apply.
[/quote]
[quote=“I”]Non-native speakers can apply for whatever they want and admissions standards vary, at least as far as PhD admissions are concerned (I guess for lower degrees the requirements are the same or lower). To get into the English Dept at NCCU you need a high score in HSK or the Taiwanese equivalent; to get on to Ed Psych at Shi-Da you have to convince them that you’ll be able to follow the course. A colleague got in there without much Chinese reading skills, on the basis that much of the reading is in English.
With the single exception of Chinese, I think, you could get away without being able to read and write. Chinese/Asian studies might be OK depending on where you applied.
In the UK you can start certain language courses from scratch (Chinese or Japanese, certainly NOT French). But these are not courses mainly for native speakers of the language being learned, so it’s not clear how that analogy helps OP.[/quote]
[quote=“Icon”]Eh, a few things, from my humble experience:
- Non Taiwanese cannot apply for any program they want. There is a booklet -which you can get either at MOFA or MOE, that tells which universities and courses furriners can apply for.[/quote]
[color=#4040FF]Really? Then I apologize! The thing is that at the two universities where I’ve taught I’ve had foreign students (Hungarian, Mexican, Japanese, Paraguayan…) studying all kinds of BA degrees mainly intended for Mandarin-speaking Taiwanese: English, History, Diplomacy… so I just assumed it was open house. There were no special arrangements made for these students, and there were only ever one or two per course.
What sort of courses are actually barred from foreign participation, do you know?[/color]
[color=#4040FF]I didn’t comment on that, but I’m sure you’re right.[/color]
[color=#4040FF]I didn’t say that the courses were taught in English. But for nearly all university courses (except Chinese courses) most reading and the main textbook are in English. This is a real problem for Taiwanese students, who often graduate with the most superficial knowledge of their subjtec for this reason.[/color]
[color=#4040FF]Specially for foreigners, you mean? Or no foreigners are admitted to programs mainly intended for Taiwanese at all? So the MOFA/MOE book explicitly says that foreigners are banned from all other Chinese studs/lit courses?[/color]
[quote=“Icon”]5. All rules detailed above do not apply if you are Overseas Chinese -which we know get a different deal.
- I do not understand your last paragraph, but I will try to make myself clear. Back home we are native Spanish speakers, hence, getting a BA in English means you will minor in teaching, translation, literature or linguistic research. Same with French. They will test your knowledge when you start, but many people start from 0 and hence must undergo a grueling intensive one year program to get them to a working level and then on to other coursework that helps them master the language. From what my German friends tell me, they also studied Mandarin grammar, literature and history as intensively and course detailed as we did our English. That was the correlation I was building upon.[/quote]
[color=#4040FF]But this thread is about getting a degree in Chinese in a Chinese-speaking country. You have to compare it with getting a degree in Spanish in your home country, Mexico or Spain or wherever you come from, not with getting a degree in English or French in that country.
I myself did a degree in Chinese in the UK, and that is available ab initio (ie from 0). But French and Spanish are not, and to be honest I do not think it likely that ab initio university degrees in English are available in your country either.
Ah, lots of questions! Let’s elucidate:
OK, we agree that in some parts in Europe, UK and Germany as we both konw, you can start off Chinese Mandarin from 0 to Hero -M.A. in Asian Studies or whatever the ultimate goal may be. Again, I was jut making the comparison: if even us have it, why don’t they have it here? It would be wonderful to be able to have something like that her, in the actual environment. It would be a normal expectation, correct me if I’m wrong. It would be interesting to know if such a goal can be pursued say, in Beijing.
The program I mentioned is a particular pilot one, exclusively for foreigners. I am not aware whether something similar exists elsewhere. The students there start with a very basic level, and pursue intensive studies of the target language.
As to what scholarships students are studying, well, you have to use up that scholarship, you have to find a place that accepts you, and something not so hard as to be flunked easily not that takes more time than the money you have been given. One year of Mandarin is all tyou get sponsored for -and while generous- if you started from zero as most students do, you will still need a lot of sweat and blood and tears and help -Divine Intervention. back in teh day when we were fewer, special accomodation had to be made -taking the tests in English, for instance, but it still depended on the instructors. Many were very kind and helped a lot of the early students who opened the doors for the flood -in comparison- that we have now.
Back in the day, as I mentioned before, even English literature her at Masters level was atught in Chinese -for the students’ confort, as I was told by the head of the school. That would have been unacceptable back home. It has changed a lot, but you can read other people’s complains about programs that advertise themselves as “international” and “English language taught”… and don’t deliver. I am not saying that the one at your school is, I do not know anything about it, but I do stress the fact that they are rare birds if they do as they say.
Yes, I insist, there are certain programs, especially in medicine, where foreigners are not accepted. This to me sounds logical, as I know many Taiwaneseas who study overseas, then try for years and years to pass the tests here to be able to have their license, and fail continuously. Just as there are certain jobs we cannot do, too. Their place, their rules. And remember, these keep changing. Less than 5 years ago, no foreign students were allowed in the maritime university in Keelung -no one had tried before, they said-. Now, there are several, even a girl I’ve heard.
Again, we have strayed off the course of the main topic. Going back, in summary, we have yet to find a suitable program like the one you took for the OP here in Taiwan, making all these questions moot.
[quote=“Icon”]Ah, lots of questions! Let’s elucidate:
OK, we agree that in some parts in Europe, UK and Germany as we both konw, you can start off Chinese Mandarin from 0 to Hero -M.A. in Asian Studies or whatever the ultimate goal may be. Again, I was jut making the comparison: if even us have it, why don’t they have it here? It would be wonderful to be able to have something like that her, in the actual environment. It would be a normal expectation, correct me if I’m wrong. It would be interesting to know if such a goal can be pursued say, in Beijing.
The program I mentioned is a particular pilot one, exclusively for foreigners. I am not aware whether something similar exists elsewhere. The students there start with a very basic level, and pursue intensive studies of the target language.
As to what scholarships students are studying, well, you have to use up that scholarship, you have to find a place that accepts you, and something not so hard as to be flunked easily not that takes more time than the money you have been given. One year of Mandarin is all tyou get sponsored for -and while generous- if you started from zero as most students do, you will still need a lot of sweat and blood and tears and help -Divine Intervention. back in teh day when we were fewer, special accomodation had to be made -taking the tests in English, for instance, but it still depended on the instructors. Many were very kind and helped a lot of the early students who opened the doors for the flood -in comparison- that we have now.
Back in the day, as I mentioned before, even English literature her at Masters level was atught in Chinese -for the students’ confort, as I was told by the head of the school. That would have been unacceptable back home. It has changed a lot, but you can read other people’s complains about programs that advertise themselves as “international” and “English language taught”… and don’t deliver. I am not saying that the one at your school is, I do not know anything about it, but I do stress the fact that they are rare birds if they do as they say.
Yes, I insist, there are certain programs, especially in medicine, where foreigners are not accepted. This to me sounds logical, as I know many Taiwaneseas who study overseas, then try for years and years to pass the tests here to be able to have their license, and fail continuously. Just as there are certain jobs we cannot do, too. Their place, their rules. And remember, these keep changing. Less than 5 years ago, no foreign students were allowed in the maritime university in Keelung (Jilong) -no one had tried before, they said-. Now, there are several, even a girl I’ve heard.
Again, we have strayed off the course of the main topic. Going back, in summary, we have yet to find a suitable program like the one you took for the OP here in Taiwan, making all these questions moot.[/quote]
The MoE doesn’t dictate which schools foreigners go to, its up to the schools and departments to decide if foreigners can apply. All the MoE states is that the foreigner population of a school cannot exceed 10% of the normal student population or something like that.
Therefore, while I could study in the X department at Y university, I can’t study in the Z department at the same uni because of departmental regulations. They can also not allow foreigners into the BA program, while allowing them to be in the MA, PhD program or some combination thereof.
Just checkout their websites and they’ll usually have a listing of what departments you can apply to, if you can apply to that university. They’ll also usually have a listing of what are the requirements, such as tests, chinese ability, english ability, etc.
I believe Sh-Da offers a degree programme in Chinese for second language learners.
Another rule is that you can’t get a second B.A. in Taiwan. So you’d need to get a Master’s.
[quote=“twocs”][quote=“Icon”]
4. Currently, there is only one program offering a B.A. in Chinese Studies for foreigners.
[/quote]
Another rule is that you can’t get a second B.A. in Taiwan. So you’d need to get a Master’s.[/quote]
You can, but then you cannot submit any of your undergraduate records to your university. You can only submit your high school transcripts.
Right. Many things keep changing. For instance, it used to be that you couldn’t get your PhD from the same university if you had studied your MA there. Not anymore.
C’mon, people, back in the day they wouldn’t give you a scholarship for college if you had studied Chinese here. Weird, huh?
At any rate, to earn a Bachelor’s degree in Chinese Language at a college in a native Chinese speaking country would certainly require the student to read Chinese. Full stop. That’s what having a degree in a language means. There is a distinction between a BA program for non-native speakers – which includes learning the nuts and bolts of the language as part of the curriculum – and a BA program for natives, which focuses on writing, stylistics, literature and the like. I seriously doubt that a foreigner could keep up in such a program unless it were either a) a genius individual or b) a seriously fourth-rate university program.
Also, do not expect anything in the line of help, accommodation (reasonable or otherwise) or support from the school. Classmates – maybe. I know of one native speaking student who could not write (he was an ABC) who did a four-year degree in Public Health, but I think he got admitted in the first place as an ABC, and he had great people skills – so he never had to write. His classmates mysteriously did all his writing for him. It was amazing to watch.
I’ll look into more after I get settled in since I’ll be back in TW by early Feb. In my original post, I did mean a degree program in Chinese or Asian Studies for non-native speakers, hence my comment about not being able to read Chinese yet. I can speak Mandarin, but not read. But I guess that if it’s a program tailored for non-native speakers, then the ability to speak Mandarin would not be a prerequisite either.
Thanks for all the discussion on the topic. Gives me lots of info to start with.
Foreigners CAN study medicine in Taiwan but the fees are so high it’s not worth it. You have to take an admission test that covers Chinese, English, Biology, Chemistry and Physics. All in Chinese but surprisingly easy to deal with because it’s all multiple choice. There is no concession with the Chinese that you are testing against locals in their native language because they are doing the same with you in English. The only difference is that you are competing for foreign student places rather than local student places - and since you are the only foreign student applying you just have to meet the 80% minimum score.
I had a whimsical dream of going into medicine and CMU in Taichung were surprisingly helpful. Even though I didn’t technically even finish high school in the UK they took the scientific nature of my work into account and agreed to give me a place as long as I tested over 80%. They set me up with some third year students who I paid to help me get through the admission tests and gave me access to the university library.
Unfortunately the top brass decreed that foreigners (but not Malaysians, Singaporeans, ABCs etc.) had to pay 3x local tuition. With the exchange rate at the time around US$85,000 per year excluding books, equipment, lodgings etc. x 5 years that’s maybe half a million before you get anywhere near a hospital. That would make Taiwan more expensive than a decent American, Canadian or British medical school. Fair enough but not justifiable for me personally so I bailed out. I have heard nothing but positive things about the training associate doctors get at CMU, but Taiwan’s general science education is third rate at best - little more than lectures and a weekly multiple-choice test. For the local tuition rate it would be something I could suck up and deal with, but not for a premium price.
An interesting experience and a real shame it didn’t work out. Even though I earn more staying in business I wonder if I will regret it somewhere down the line.
If you wanted to study Chinese (in the same sense that you would study English Language or Literature in England or America) then I assume you would need to test into the program as above, but obviously without the science bits. I read and write Chinese at maybe newspaper level but I don’t have much formal education in the language and the Chinese part of the admission tests are incredibly hard for a non-native. The only way I would have got through it is by making up points on the English and science tests, so if the majority of your scores need to come from Chinese it’s going to be very difficult. I think you would need a good 4-5 years of formal education in Chinese plus a lot of real world use and a lot of reading to make it.