How is the new method working out? Do many businesses accept Apple Pay now?
Pretty much any business that has a credit card machine already accepts Apple Pay.
The article above is announcing Apple Tap-to-Pay, which allows the customer and a merchant who doesn’t have a credit card reader to tap their iPhones together for payment.
I haven’t seen anyone done it yet, and I doubt it will be very popular as it requires the merchant to have an iPhone. Most other current mobile payment solutions only require them to display a QR code on a sign.
So I’m a bit confused with the way my Apple Pay works (with my E.Sun Visa), maybe someone can help me understand who is overcharging and why is it E.Sun.
I’m Replying to Explant because it seems related to this 5% sales tax somehow (?).
Apple gives me invoices for every product I buy, which states:
Inclusive of VAT at 5%
But then when I check my credit card statement, I see an amount to If you don't recognize a charge - Apple Support of exactly 5% on top of the apple invoice price.
It is not an extra fee, it is literally the price inflated +5%!!
I buy something costing NTD $90 on Apple’s invoice incl VAT? I receive a $95 charge from Apple on my Visa.
I’m going to have a talk with E.Sun but is this normal here in Taiwan?
I think there might be two different things here? If the item is NT$90 inclusive of 5% VAT, it shouldn’t be billed at NT$95 because that’s not what “inclusive” means.
Maybe that’s the foreign transaction fee or something? (Although it does seem a little high for that, and for my cards those are always billed separately from the main item not together with it.)
Why would there be a foreign transaction fee on a E.Sun debit card in Taiwan?
What do you mean by “Apple’s invoice”? Are you buying something from the Apple Store?
If so, the invoice should be broken down like this:
- Price of the item: $9,525 (Not the advertised price)
- 5% VAT: $475
- Total amount charged: $10,000 (This is the advertised price of the product)
The phrase “inclusive of 5% VAT” means the total advertised amount includes the 5%.
If you’re using Apple Pay but not buying anything from Apple, then you shouldn’t receive an invoice from them.
If it’s billed in another country. Not unusual.
It sounded like he’s buying things from Apple with all the “Apple’s invoice” stuff, especially if it’s NT$90 inclusive of tax as stated. If it’s NT$90 inclusive of tax, the additional NT$5 clearly isn’t the tax because then it would be exclusive of tax.
Maybe OP needs to clarify what they’re talking about.
@fonserbc specified using Apple Pay here in Taiwan with E.Sun VISA card.
If you found it clear, you wouldn’t have needed to write this:
I don’t use Apple Pay, and I don’t know what they’re buying. I do know what “inclusive” means, so if the post was accurate there’s no reason for the inclusive tax to be added a second time.
So again:
It’s clear that they are using Apple Pay with E.Sun Card, and it’s clear that they’re in Taiwan.
So we can exclude the possibility of a foreign transaction fee.
Okay.
Please direct your additional thoughts to OP rather than me. I’m finding it too early in the day to be conversing with you.
Thanks for the interest @Andrew and @user86 and help.
I’m in Taiwan, my Apple ID region is set to Taiwan, and Apple is charging me TWD, there shouldn’t be a foreign transaction unless apple has it’s company set up at a fiscal paradise… like what it’s stating in the bottom of the invoice as Ireland. Maybe Visa or E.Sun is charging me 5% because of it?
Sharing here some images so you can see. Worry not, I have removed all identifiable information.
I will go to the bank to ask some questions regardless.
Subscription from my iPhone:
Invoice from Apple:
bottom of invoice, notice Ireland.
Charge on my VISA:
Yeah, that’s most likely the case. The charge is coming from outside Taiwan, so there will be a foreign transaction fee.
Same with subscribing for Netflix, Spotify, Disney+, … - all will result in a foreign transaction fee. Although 5% seems a bit excessive. I think I’m charged around 3% or 4%.
Note that with many credit cards, you’ll get back the foreign transaction fee in some kind of cashback / points / …
EDIT: Mhh, no - I just checked a recent Netflix charge:
Note that it says “ 海外線上交易” (“Overseas online transactions”) - which your screenshot doesn’t show. Also, the amount shown in the E.Sun Wallet app is the original amount without any foreign transaction fee being added (that will only be shown on the statement, I think).
So your best bet is probably inquiring with Apple about why they charged you more in this case…
And just for the sake of completeness:
So I’ll receive NT$16 worth of PiCoins which should offset the foreign transaction fee in this case.
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Mmm maybe it’s my card conditions. It’s a Debit card too, which they already gave me a weird face when I asked for one here in Taiwan E.Sun. (seems like here credit cards are the norm)
I will dig further, thanks
The strange thing is that usually a foreign transaction fee should be shown separately and not be charged as part of the amount. So it really looks like Apple is charging your card $410 for some reason…
What does the eGUI-invoice say? (You should receive that one via email some hours/days after the charge)?
5% sounds steep, however apple pay charges additional transactional fee over to the issue.
I would check the card’s T&Cs if there is any mention of additional charges for apple pay. Normal standard for TW cards is 1.95% crossborder fee for credit cards, usually debit cards are cheaper.
Sort of sounds possible that Apple says prices include sales tax and the physicals tore selling it are charging an extra 5%. It’s common enough for shops to add tax later, especially for businesses that get a receipt with tax ID to deduct business costs. I would ask the shop, seems like a possible mix up. Although it absolutely shouldn’t happen.
Ah sorry I didn’t realize you were talking about charges for Apple app subscriptions.
Yes, they are considered foreign online charges in TWD and your Taiwan bank will likely charge a foreign transaction fee. It is not VAT.
My Cathay United bank charges around 2%. In fact, I just received two invoices from Apple last night: One for $60 and another for $150, and Cathay charged me an additional $5 as a foreign transaction fee for the $210.
The foreign transaction fee was a separate line item. Maybe your bank just does it differently (and has a very high percentage!)
I wonder if these fees are only applied if you use Apple Pay as your payment method. Maybe you can try using another debit card not linked to your Apple Pay.
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So I went to E.Sun yesterday to ask about this and, even though they didn’t attend me in English and my mandarin is simple conversational, I managed to understand that the 5% overcharge that shows in the debit card app is an amount they secure on transaction, but then if I check the end-of-the-month statement, and my bank statement, it shows separately from the base price and they told me it is a 1.85% in my case.
So yeah. Purchases of digital products to Apple cost me an extra 1.85% (likely to Google too).
So as I see it, because Apple doesn’t want to pay income taxes in Taiwan for digital goods, and funnels its purchases to Ireland, I have to pay my bank 1.85% extra. Thanks Apple.
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