Even if doing that draws the ire of China, what would China be able to do about it?
Stop conducting trade with them.
Stop conducting trade with them.[/quote]
You mean stop accepting FDI. 
Destroy their economy?
AFAIK it’s legally impossible because both Taiwan and China still claim to be “China”.
Quite. It baffles me that so many countries actually think they benefit from China’s industrialisation. Since 1990, China has had no discernible impact on the economies of either Europe or the US, at least from the average person’s point of view. Sure, we can all now buy cheap clothes and DVD players that fall apart as soon as we get them home, and I’m sure a lot of rich people have got even richer, but I don’t think the universe would implode if China threw its toys out of the pram and said “we don’t want to play with you any more”.
Short answer: Taiwan is not an independent country. It’s the last remaining stronghold of the ROC, which was otherwise defeated by the communists. Imagine a revolution in the US that caused Obama to pick up and move the government to Guam, but he refused to recognize the rebels and claimed he was still the rightful leader of the country. 60 years down the line, people would be wondering why Guam isn’t de jure independent, but Obama II would argue that’s because he isn’t president of Guam, he’s president of all of the US. He just works from the temporary US capital in Guam… Never mind those guys in the white house, they’re all imposters.
If we’re looking to blame someone, it’s the uncompromising Chiang dynasty who really thought they would get China back and stifled any attempt at Taiwanese nationalism. If they had embraced an independent island nation in the 50s, 60s, or maybe even 70s, when China was preoccupied with building itself up and had little international clout, the world would most likely have an independent nation called Taiwan today.
AFAIK it’s legally impossible because both Taiwan and China still claim to be “China”.
Quite. It baffles me that so many countries actually think they benefit from China’s industrialisation. Since 1990, China has had no discernible impact on the economies of either Europe or the US, at least from the average person’s point of view. Sure, we can all now buy cheap clothes and DVD players that fall apart as soon as we get them home, and I’m sure a lot of rich people have got even richer, but I don’t think the universe would implode if China threw its toys out of the pram and said “we don’t want to play with you any more”.[/quote]
We’re about to find out as the Chinese economy goes into a tailspin. Countries like Australia that export raw materials and foodstuff to China will suffer but for most of the world’s economy it will be triffling from what I read. Maybe .2%.
AFAIK it’s legally impossible because both Taiwan and China still claim to be “China”.[/quote]
That’s only recently, under Ma. For 15 years previously the executive held the opinion that Taiwan was a separate state. Still didn’t help with recognition.
2 Chinas would be more likely. But the Generalissimo wouldn’t have it.
Given by what he was writing in his memoirs through the Nixon administration, I would say that there was no chance in hell he would embrace some nation called Taiwan and give up any possibility of getting back the mainland. Chiang could never get over being betrayed by his own generals after the '47/'48 elections which gave the PLA 1 million experienced troops who knew how to use U.S. weapons given to them by the ROC government. Those Communists were “unbeatable” before that with U.S. protection through the Lend Lease Act and loans.
With these things weighing on him, one can understand why he had no interest in just doing something different in Taiwan that would have pleased the Taiwanese that just wanted to take control of the mainlander’s government.
It’s funny how we view CKS as being stubborn and wrong for wanting to keep the country he inherited intact and not divided before and after 1949, but Charles De Gaulle is a hero for getting back France, and Abe Lincoln is a hero for doing whatever it took to keep the U.S. together. It’s like the continuation of the U.S. is the right thing, and the continuation of the R.O.C. is wrong.
[quote=“Hokwongwei”]Short answer: Taiwan is not an independent country. It’s the last remaining stronghold of the ROC, which was otherwise defeated by the communists. Imagine a revolution in the US that caused Obama to pick up and move the government to Guam, but he refused to recognize the rebels and claimed he was still the rightful leader of the country. 60 years down the line, people would be wondering why Guam isn’t de jure independent, but Obama II would argue that’s because he isn’t president of Guam, he’s president of all of the US. He just works from the temporary US capital in Guam… Never mind those guys in the white house, they’re all imposters.
If we’re looking to blame someone, it’s the uncompromising Chiang dynasty who really thought they would get China back and stifled any attempt at Taiwanese nationalism. If they had embraced an independent island nation in the 50s, 60s, or maybe even 70s, when China was preoccupied with building itself up and had little international clout, the world would most likely have an independent nation called Taiwan today.[/quote]
AFAIK it’s legally impossible because both Taiwan and China still claim to be “China”.
Quite. It baffles me that so many countries actually think they benefit from China’s industrialisation. Since 1990, China has had no discernible impact on the economies of either Europe or the US, at least from the average person’s point of view. Sure, we can all now buy cheap clothes and DVD players that fall apart as soon as we get them home, and I’m sure a lot of rich people have got even richer, but I don’t think the universe would implode if China threw its toys out of the pram and said “we don’t want to play with you any more”.[/quote]
We’re about to find out as the Chinese economy goes into a tailspin. Countries like Australia that export raw materials and foodstuff to China will suffer but for most of the world’s economy it will be triffling from what I read. Maybe .2%.[/quote]
No matter what is going to happen to China future economy growth. China has become largest economy in Eastern Asia region. Both DDP and KMT has to confront this reality. It is fact, it is not a joke. I think there is sign that battle between DDP and KMT has pushed some of Taiwanese people to China side.
[quote=“Betelnut”]
It’s funny how we view CKS as being stubborn and wrong for wanting to keep the country he inherited intact and not divided before and after 1949, but Charles De Gaulle is a hero for getting back France, and Abe Lincoln is a hero for doing whatever it took to keep the U.S. together. It’s like the continuation of the U.S. is the right thing, and the continuation of the R.O.C. is wrong.[/quote]
They are viewed as heros because they won.
CKS on the other hand…
[quote=“dan2006”][quote=“Betelnut”]
It’s funny how we view CKS as being stubborn and wrong for wanting to keep the country he inherited intact and not divided before and after 1949, but Charles De Gaulle is a hero for getting back France, and Abe Lincoln is a hero for doing whatever it took to keep the U.S. together. It’s like the continuation of the U.S. is the right thing, and the continuation of the R.O.C. is wrong.[/quote]
They are viewed as heros because they won.
CKS on the other hand…[/quote]
Not simply because CKS lose. Even though CKS was perceived as a WWII hero, his army has done many atrocities to Chinese civilians. For example, in one case when Tang Eng-Bo （湯恩伯），CKS’s favorite general, ordered all men to be evacuated from the town, which they came to help defending against Japanese, and let his soldiers freely rape the women. In another case, Chinese army buried alive thirty something of their own sick soldiers. In a trip to China accompanied by Hemingway, Hemingway’s wife, Martha Gellhorn, interviewed CKS and his wife Madam Song in Chong-Ching 重慶，the temporary capital. Gellhorn inquired about many injured soldiers, whom they saw in the hospital received no medical care at all. Madam Song replied to her in cold blood that China had too many people and not everyone could receive proper care.
It is not written in KMT-censored history that many villages and towns actually preferred occupation by Japanese to occupation by KMT army during WWII. So the core issue is not about keeping the continuation of a nation but about treating the men and women of the nation as human beings.
Let’s ask Nanjing how they feel about that.
Let’s ask Nanjing how they feel about that.[/quote]
The evidence for a large scale of massacre in Nanjing done by Japanese army is not solid. There were about 250,000 residents in Nanjing before Japanese occupation and there were about the same number of people living there after Japanese occupation. Actually when KMT soldiers retreated from Nanjing, they looted the city. It would not be surprising if CKS turned the whole story around as a propaganda to smear Japan.
I bet you don’t believe comfort women were a thing, either?
Actually I believe that. Japanese Imperial military has done atrocities in SE Asia, Taiwan, Korea, and China. I don’t deny that.
In Nanking you also have the accounts of the foreigners sent to the zone that was later run over by Japanese army.
First it was not well known tragedy. But then many other horrible atrocities in the many theaters of WWII also have gotten less publicity.
I find denying the rape of Nanking to be as morally reprehensible as denying the White Terror or the Holocaust. It makes me sick.
Of course he must, that happened to Taiwanese women. Rape of Nanking happened on the mainland and we all know that the Chinese are nothing but lying imperialists.
Disgusting. The victims of the rape of Nanking deserve to be recognized regardless who they were.
You are right about the error of the Chiang government in the 1960s and 1970s. If they had cut a deal with the Mainland before 1971, they might be sitting in the UN now…
But thank you for that thought: Obama on Guam! I wish!