Do you support a carbon tax?

[reztrop]

Do you support a carbon tax?

• Yes
• Only if the revenue was used to reduce payroll taxes
• No!

Do you support a carbon tax?

It has a regressive effect on people with low incomes. Individuals with lower incomes will see more of their disposable income spent on energy costs. On the other hand it encourages energy conservation by penalizing people for using more. The revenues from the tax could be returned to the people by lowering their payroll taxes.

[bob]

[quote=“reztrop”]Do you support a carbon tax?

It has a regressive effect on people with low incomes. Individuals with lower incomes will see more of their disposable income spent on energy costs. On the other hand it encourages energy conservation by penalizing people for using more. The revenues from the tax could be returned to the people by lowering their payroll taxes.[/quote]

Good point. I will need to revise my position.

Membership in world trade bodies should be contingent on a commitment to reducing CO2 emissions. That commitment should be demonstrated in the form of a tax, the revenues from which would be used to finance alternatives to fossil fuel consumption. If oil or coal is burned and the CO2 sequestered it would not be taxed. [this is an addition to my proposal - thank you] Since emmissions from automobiles and home heating cannot be sequestered the oil would be taxed and subsidies for home insulation would be made available and public transportation would be improved. China and India would argue that their economies are developing and that they have not made the same contribution to the problem that we have in the west and so should not be required to pay the same tax rate. They have a point. These issues could be brought up when the time comes to negotiate the taxes that each country would be required to charge. What should not be allowed is for “any” country to opt out of the agreement completely and China and India could certainly not be let off easily.

forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … &start=730

A payroll tax reduction to those laboring at the low ened of the pay scale makes sense.

[redandy]

No, energy prices, especially for gasoline are already jacked up, and people don’t need a tax to tell them the value of efficiency. Plus, I have no confidence that it won’t go the way of most taxes and ultimately end up being a matter of who can afford the best lobbyists and tax advisers.

[bob]

@redandy

No, energy prices, especially for gasoline are already jacked up, and people don’t need a tax to tell them the value of efficiency.

They are jacked up as much by the excessive profits to oil companies and the bloated salaries given their executives as by the tax on gas. The tax on gas does not even pay for the construction and maintenance of highways. And while people may not need a tax to tell them the value of efficiency they do apparently need one to tell them the value of setting wise priorities. How many over sized homes, over sized automobiles, over sized cruise ships, over sized airplanes and over sized bodies do we need to see before coming to that conclusion?

[fred_smith]

They are jacked up as much by the excessive profits to oil companies and the bloated salaries given their executives

What is this obsession about corporations? ocean liners? SUVs? suburban housewives? you are a caricature of a San Francisco hippy. Have another smoke and chill man… peace…

[bob]

NO! NO! I beg of you… Let us have at least one intelligent convesation.

[redandy]

Yeah I got it, the oil companies are a bunch of evil money grabbing a-holes. I’m quite aware that they don’t give a damn about me. But so what? They’re going to make money whether there’s a tax or not.

The thing is, most of what will supposedly be accomplished via tax is already happening by price increases and the increasing marketing efforts of environmental groups. The message is getting out there. Furthermore, I would posit that the market will better reflect real world solutions than the tax would. When legislators start writing the tax every two bit lobby group with a sob story is going to show up at the door with some reason why we should feel sorry for them and give them a break from these oppressive carbon taxes. Meanwhile, the rest of us who have to deal with the tax are in effect going to be subsidizing their freebies because we’ll be bearing a market induced burden on the price plus the tax burden.

[Screaming_Jesus]

As a carbon-based lifeform, I think such a tax would be fundamentally unfair.

[bob]

@redandy

When legislators start writing the tax every two bit lobby group with a sob story is going to show up at the door with some reason why we should feel sorry for them and give them a break from these oppressive carbon taxes. Meanwhile, the rest of us who have to deal with the tax are in effect going to be subsidizing their freebies because we’ll be bearing a market induced burden on the price plus the tax burden.

If they can afford a lobby group they probably are not that oppressed. Fuck em. Tax lobby groups too. I also think that there should be a tax imposed on the cremation of screaming jesus.

[redandy]

As a carbon-based lifeform, I think such a tax would be fundamentally unfair.

:roflmao: