Does hockey have rules or not?

Discussion Open Forum
1

I don’t get it. Ice hockey is basically a nonstop series of fights interspersed with occasional hockey. Maybe if a fight is bad enough the players might have to sit in the box for a few minutes. But fighting is obviously not only permitted, but is probably encouraged to drive up ticket sales.

But every so often a fight has such disastrous results that everyone acts like they’re shocked and fighting is illegal in the sport and they launch a criminal investigation. That happened in 2000, after Marty McSorley slammed another player so hard with his stick that the guy was knocked unconscious and missed the next 20 games (see photo below). McSorley drew a one-year suspension and was convicted of criminal assault.

Then yesterday, Todd Bertuzzi punched Steve Moore from behind, driving his head into the ice, breaking his neck and splitting open his face. As with McSorley, a police investigation has been launched.

So what’s the deal? Can you blindside a player and slam his face in the ice or not? Can you hit someone in the head with your stick or not? Is it legal only so long as you don’t break the guy’s neck? Just trying to understand the game. :s

2

I guess you are being sarcastic? No you cant blindside players or slam their faces into the ice.

3

No, not being sarcastic. Is it legal to punch a guy in hockey? To slam him into the wall? It happens all the time. Is it like IP infringement in Taiwan – it’s technically illegal but no one follows the rules? Is there a written rule concerning what conduct (a) is perfectly legal (b) results in a few minutes in the box and © is a criminal act? The distinction seems very arbitrary to me – it seems to depend on the severity of the other player’s injuries. No?

4

Yes you can punch some one.
Yes you can hit him with a stick.
Yes you can fight.
but if you do… you’ll get a penelty. 2min, 5min, 10min or a game.
On top of that you could get a 1-x number of game suspensions.

In this case it will cost him a lot of money. Many games out. Probably an end to his hockey carrer. Possibly a civil suit. A criminal charge would not be unheard of but is unexpeted.

It is a game and the rules are clear. But this is a rare exception to the norm.

If it was a bunch of regular guys…it would be a criminal act and he probably would get sued.

Ski

5

“I went to a boxing match and a hockey game broke out.”
Rodney Dangerfield

6

I have met both Todd Bertuzzi and Don Brashear. Two really nice guys. It’s their job description that is menacing. As a player, I detest the violence in the game. But the fans want it and the rules won’t change. Therefore, there will always be room on the roster for an enforcer or two.

This is why I prefer Olympic hockey. Its the skill of the team, pure and simple, that wins…even if the officiating is completely and horribly pro-American (right Ladies?)

I was really sad to hear this about Bert…he really is a hell of a nice guy. I haven’t seen the clip…was it a sucker punch? Had Steve Moore been guilty of some earlier infraction and was on the receiving end of some retribution? This does not make up for a broken neck, and I hope he recovers and can continue his career. But hockey is a fast-paced and unpredictable game. As players, we accept the risk. The worst injury I ever sustained on the ice was a seperated shoulder…and that happened during warm-up.

7

Apparently Steve Moore had knocked out Vancouver Canucks star Markus Naslund on a borderline hit a couple of weeks ago. Moore had a bounty on his head when the teams played the next time. I don’t think Bertuzzi wanted this result from his action. He probably wanted to take revenge but I don’t think he wanted Moore to have a broken neck.

8

MT,

Here is a good discussion regarding tort liability in the US in connection with sporting events:

dcba.org/brief/sepissue/2002/art30902.htm

9

Erm, I just have to quip that Moore has “fractured cervical vertebrae”, not “a broken neck” in the classical sense. At least, whenever I hear that someone has “a broken neck”, the connotation is that the person is dead or permanently severely paralyzed.

As far as the hit, the poor guy was blindsided – Berwhozzi skated up behind him, grabbed his jersey, and hammered him, then crashed down on top of him. Several other players piled on. It was pretty rotten, and I hope the NHL bans the guy permanently. And I do think he should go to jail for it, too. Then again, while I think hockey is a decent sport (unlike, say, baseball), I’m not a fan.

10

[quote=Erm, I just have to quip that Moore has “fractured cervical vertebrae”, not “a broken neck” in the classical sense.]
May I point out that when someone has a broken neck, the thing that is broken is a vertebrae. How serious a broken neck will be depends on which vertebrae is broken, and how much damage the spinal cord has received. The higher up the broken vertebrae is, the higher up the potential paralysis will start. The spinal cord is usually damaged by the sharp edges of the broken bones. Minor damage causes reversible problems. More extensive cutting will result in paralysis.

11

[quote=“bababa”][quote=“MaPoDurian”]Erm, I just have to quip that Moore has “fractured cervical vertebrae”, not “a broken neck” in the classical sense.]
May I point out that when someone has a broken neck, the thing that is broken is a vertebrae. How serious a broken neck will be depends on which vertebrae is broken, and how much damage the spinal cord has received. The higher up the broken vertebrae is, the higher up the potential paralysis will start. The spinal cord is usually damaged by the sharp edges of the broken bones. Minor damage causes reversible problems. More extensive cutting will result in paralysis.[/quote][/quote]
As I wrote, the connotations are diferent. You say “broken neck”, people assume it’s broken clean through and has paralyzed or killed the victim. You say “fractured vertebrae”, and people assume some of the protrusions got broken or the bone got cracked. At least, that’s how I’ve always heard (and connoted) the usage. But whatever.

12

Ok Tigerman, from the Nabozny case in your article, the standard may be that:

(a) “a player in an athletic contest has a duty to other players to refrain from conduct that violates rules that are designed to protect participants from serious injury” and

(b) “a player is liable for injury in a tort action if his conduct is such that it is either deliberate, wilful or with a reckless disregard for the safety of the other player so as to cause injury to that player.”

It sounds like most professional hockey and football games contain conduct that would support civil liability. Under (a), it’s only necessary to violate rules designed to protect from serious injury. Such violations happen all the time, but often the players get lucky and there is no serious injury. Under (b), it’s only necessary that the conduct be with reckless disregard for the safety of others. That also sounds common.

Consequently, if the above standard applies, it seems in cases such as this not only should the hitter be liable, but the NHL should be liable to the injured player for permitting the regular violation of rules designed to protect from serious injury and regular violation of the civil liability of other players. Injuries such as this are totally foreseeable and to be expected. I’m not advocating filing of lawsuits. I’m just saying if that’s the legal standard it sounds like there is grounds for liability in virtually every game.

13

Erm, I just have to quip that Moore has “fractured cervical vertebrae”, not “a broken neck” in the classical sense. At least, whenever I hear that someone has “a broken neck”, the connotation is that the person is dead or permanently severely paralyzed.

As far as the hit, the poor guy was blindsided – Berwhozzi skated up behind him, grabbed his jersey, and hammered him, then crashed down on top of him. Several other players piled on. It was pretty rotten, and I hope the NHL bans the guy permanently. And I do think he should go to jail for it, too. Then again, while I think hockey is a decent sport (unlike, say, baseball), I’m not a fan.[/quote]

Alright, here’s what really happened. In an earlier game back in mid-Feburary between the Colorado Avalanche and the Vancouver Canucks, Steve Moore (an average 3rd or 4th line no name player) knocked out the captain of the Cancuks, Markus Naslund (the then NHL leading scorer at the time). What pissed off the whole Canucks organization then was that the hit went unpenalized and it was to their best player. The league reviewed it and saw it as a clean hit. Even Naslund himself said it was a clean hit and this is from the guy who got hit!

After that incident, the Canucks coach, GM, and certain other players ran their mouths off at the media in regards to Mr. Moore. The worst one was Brad May, who said he’d put a bounty on Moore. Bertuzzi, in the aftermath of that hit said, "he’s a piece of crap " and then went on to say “he won’t be in the lineup in March”.

The Canucks played the Avs again the very next week, but in Colorado with all the NHL heads in attendance. They were in attendance because of what certain Canuck players said. That game ended in a 5-5 tie and nothing came of it. Nothing could come of it for the fact that the league was looking closely at that game and it was in Colorado (enemy territory).

Another two weeks passed and the Canucks played the Avs again., but in Vancouver this time. What Bertuzzi did in this game is so asanine that it’s totally inexcusable. In the 3rd period when the Canucks were losing a laugher at 8-2 Avs, Bertuzzi wanted to fight Steve Moore, who had already fought Matt Cooke earlier. Cooke fought Moore for what he did to Naslund and Moore got his butt kicked in that fight. Bertuzzi should’ve just left it at that and leave Moore alone, but he wanted a piece of Moore to himself. Naslund is Bertuzzi’s best friend and linemate so just letting Cooke beat Moore up wasn’t enough for him. No, he wanted to do it himself! Steve Moore refused to fight Bertuzzi and kept ignoring him. Just to let you know, both Steve Moore and Matt Cooke are about the same size (Cooke is a bit smaller). Todd Bertuzzi is 6"3" and 245. Granted he’s an all-star and all, but he still outweighs Moore by 50 lbs and has a mean streak! He was pulling Moore’s jersey from behind and yapping the whole time in an attempt to get Moore to fight. Moore just ignored him and kept skating away. That’s when Bertuzzi lost it. He not only sucker punch the poor guy from behind, but also fell on top of him causing Moore’s head to hit the ice.

I’m a huge Nucks fan and Bert used to be my 2nd favorite Nucks player, but after what he did, I’m ashamed to be a fan. I have lost all respect for this guy. Acts like these don’t belong in hockey. The occasional fight is fined as long as it’s “controlled”, but this is going too far.

14

Mar 25, 2004: Colorado forward Steve Moore has been released from a hospital and faces weeks of rehabilitation following a hit by Vancouver’s Todd Bertuzzi that broke his neck. Moore, 25, was released from a Denver-area hospital late Monday. He is expected to wear a neck brace for six to 12 weeks and his physical therapy will begin after he recovers from the concussion and neck injury. Moore broke two vertebrae in his neck and nerves were stretched, but there was no paralysis or evidence of spinal cord trauma. He also suffered a concussion and deep facial cuts when Bertuzzi hit him from behind and drove him to the ice during a March 8 game. . .

taipeitimes.com/News/sport/a … 7750/print

I had forgotten about poor Steve Moore: 2 weeks in the hospital, 6 to 12 weeks neck brace, then physical therapy. Ouch.

Interesting article in the TT the other day on the need to test for steroids in the NHL. Sounds like a good idea to me. Sure sounds like a possible case of roid rage from 245 pound Bertuzzi in this case.