Oh, I thought the NS aspects of the ROC has been “rolled back” already in the 1940s? SCNR
Ok, except maybe in hsinchu.
Or at some KMT- Ralleys.
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That has been Taiwan’s great achievement. But there seems to be an ideological, or idealist, vacuum. Nationalism and socialism have been forgotten, I mean the principles, have been largely sublimated to make way for venture capitalism.
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The capitalism has been very successful, no?
The unsavoury aspects of the ROC dictatorship on Taiwan are well-known and execrable. I’ve raised a counter-discourse, which I think is necessary and critical: the KMT were not all bad, the ROC stood for something both in theory, and sometimes in practice. If the ROC were so worthless it would have already been replaced.
[quote=“BiggusDickus, post:23, topic:205495, full:true”]
That is the question. It’s been very successful for the rich, but not for the poor who are in relative terms getting poorer, while the environment becomes increasingly degraded. What Taiwan would benefit from is a more democratic-socialist approach. But you need the idea first, the principle: “Tian Xia Wei Gong”.
If we’re gonna change, might as be better than the rest of the world. No need for chr*stian calendar here.
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[quote=“Critter, post:25, topic:205495, full:true”]
They’re getting poorer relative to the rich. The increasing wealth gap is universal, arguably even more so in some supposedly communist countries.
However, absolute poverty levels in Taiwan are low compared to most countries. Everyone has healthcare and education. It’s not fair, of course, but neither is life.
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I think most people in Taiwan are getting richer . That’s what the numbers are saying.
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It depends on how one gauges poverty, but I recall fewer than 1% of Taiwanese being classed as in poverty. I’ll look up the figures later.
In fact Taiwan has been doing incredibly well.
Look at some of my friends overseas…Both out of work for one couple I know.
Also tax burden has been going DOWN not UP.
Also NTD strengthening for everybody.
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That’s a bit reductive. I would argue that wealth has a social aspect. The ROC emphasised sociability and nation-building. People may appear to have more money today, but what does money buy? I suppose relative to a point in the past, most people are better off money-wise, sure.
I’m just replying to afters that the poor are getting poorer…That’s not actually the case in Taiwan I think.
I agree a country is much more than earnings or GDP. I really want clean air here and a safe secure geopolitical environment.
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It’s pretty hard to replace things when you’re being prevented by a gun in one’s face.
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It would have been , if not for the PRC threatening Taiwan if it did.
As to the KMT not being all bad, they successfully carried out land reform, mostly because they didn’t really give a shit what was happening on Taiwan. They were content to siphon as much money as they could out of the development of Taipei. Their virtue was mostly standing back and not interfering in the development of the capitalist economy. Any reference to the "Three Principles"was lip-service for the hearing of their American paymasters.
There is an underlying assumption in what you say, i.e. that everyone in Taiwan wants to ditch the ROC. I think Taiwanese people’s feelings, like mine, are a bit more nuanced than that. There is a significant and relatively powerful minority here that still support the ROC and the principles it stood for. In this regard, Taiwan is a little like Northern Ireland, which has its own minority “loyalist” group ( a minority in Ireland as a whole.) In Taiwan, even those not from mainlander backgrounds will feel some sympathy for certain aspects of the ROC culture/ideology I believe. The majority in Taiwan probably do not actively support the idea of the ROC, but neither do they want to change the status quo, for the reason you mention of course.
Unionists are a minority in Northern Ireland? Where did you get that idea from?
They are consistently higher in elections, albeit not by a great deal.
I disagree. A clear majority are ready to move on. That’s the democratic benchmark. ROC diehards are holding onto a reality that will one day force their hand. Unite with China or remain independent from China. They are kicking the can down the road.
Northern Ireland has been afforded the right to leave or rejoin the UK if they wish. They are not a self-governing sovereign state being held at gunpoint to hold onto an untenable relic of the past as a defacto country with wording that doesn’t reflect the reality. But they are unequivocally part of the UK until they choose to leave by a referendum decided by a majority of people.
[quote=“BiggusDickus, post:36, topic:205495, full:true”]
They are a minority in Ireland as a whole, and the border was colonial gerrymandering–that’s the Irish nationalist point of view, not mine.
So, you think the majority of people in Taiwan would like to ditch the ROC from the constitution? Perhaps that’s true. I’m not sure it is a “clear majority.” There is a big difference between winning an election (DPP), and changing the constitution. Obviously the status quo is maintained under a kind of duress. I suppose if China weren’t threatening Taiwan the ROC would disappear sooner rather than later, but I suspect it would endure longer than you think.
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Of course. I think we seem to have reached an agreement…mostly. But in a world without China’s threats, all it would take is a majority referendum and the ROC disappears.