Eligibility for NWOHR passport+TARC if no active household registration at time of birth

it depends on your qualification to get a TARC, though I don’t see much point to get and keep a TARC when you don’t need it.

This is the regulation on TARC, and Article 18 is about renewal.
臺灣地區無戶籍國民申請入國居留定居許可辦法

Article 18

申請延期居留者,應於效期屆滿前一個月內,檢附下列文件,向移民署為
之:
一、申請書。
二、臺灣地區居留證。
三、其他相關證明文件。
前項延期每次為三年。但有本法第九條第一項第九款至第十一款及第十五
款情形之一者,依聘僱期間發給;有同條項第十二款至第十四款情形者,
依就學、受訓或實習期間發給。
依前項但書規定發給之臺灣地區居留證,其效期最長不得逾三年。
本法第九條第一項第十二款之僑生畢業後,於居留效期屆滿前,得以書面
敘明理由,向移民署申請延期,經許可者,其臺灣地區居留證之有效期間
,自原居留效期屆滿之翌日起延期六個月;延期屆滿前,有必要者,得再
申請延長一次,總延長居留期間最長為一年。

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Tando getting a TARC for taiwan(NWHOR)should have a Qualifications?i mean how about if someone started working like janitor or factory or helper they cant get a TARC?coz im thinking there work is in a low skill worker and who should apply for them for the TARC the employer or by The workers by themselves?

OP, sorry this is a kind of off topic conversation.

@Jasonong335933, as we talked before, there are several ways people can get a TARC. By qualifications, I meant it.
As for your situation, you are a NWOHR with a single nationality, so different from cases of most people on this forum. And iirc, I already posted on your question in some of your threads. Please check them.

Hi Hayashi,

For applying overseas, you can read my notes which I think are mostly here: Reasons for NWOHR getting TARC

It’s a little more complicated, but I felt it was a more stable choice for me than assuming once I landed in Taiwan the application process would go off without a hitch and not require papers from other countries, which would be easier for me to handle while maintaining my existing day job and daily life at the time. The least straightforward part is the medical exam, because the form technically asks for things like the administrator of the hospital system to sign your single person’s medical exam. It was probably written long ago when hospitals may have been less complex. That said, you may be able to get them to accept other signatures since they probably understand how crazy that is for a large hospital system, or if that doesn’t work out you could spend the time getting it done in Taiwan.

I agree with Tando that it probably is better not to assume perpetual renewal doesn’t have its own challenges. I think at the very least, it will look strange to government workers to see someone perpetually renew a resident visa without ever residing for several cycles, and it’s hard to predict where that will lead. I think there are also costs involved, and other expirations like Lain mentioned document authentication expirations, if I recall correctly. What if the law changes and everything before a certain year is invalidated and must be re-prepared? What if China takes over Taiwan and doesn’t care what a TARC is? These are extreme examples, but they could affect your plan. Sometimes doing things “just in time” or close to when you actually need them is best, as your actions will best reflect current conditions and requirements. Or you could try to just get the 1 year out of the way now. I’m not saying it’s 100% better not to do the multiple renewal route, but it’s less documented and you should check every angle carefully down to expiration of documents and there won’t be a lot of people doing the same thing to lend notes about their experiences.

Your plan to visit for a short trip is interesting. I think Fridays are okay, and it sounds like you already know that the immigration office may be closed on weekends and you’ll want to check the holiday schedule also before buying your plane tickets.

@Lain it would be great to hear more about the end part of the process with updating the HHR, whenever you do that. Also, if you have any useful links to info handy that would be great (I can dig them up later if it’s not convenient since I’m probably just too lazy+busy). I’m a little behind on researching that part, and everyone made it sound like you just need to have x number of days per y calendar years being within the country and then magically you can establish (or get added to) an HHR. However, in other cases like deceased parent(s) or cancelled HHRs, who knows what other conditions could exist without checking carefully.

About the possibility of renewing TARCs: Hm, scouting through other materials which we have, I’m not sure where that renewal maximum of 2 to 3 comes from. Of course, I don’t want to deny that such a limit exists, but so far I couldn’t find a hard rule. Just raising the possibility that this might be a case of SOP/that’s how we used to do it, but not actually rooted in the law.

The way I see it, and also referring to tando’s article: If you originally applied for a TARC because of work or study, then at the time of renewal these circumstances must still apply.

But if you have applied for a TARC by being the child of an ROC citizen (AF353, AF384, …), then at any time of a renewal, you would still fulfil these requirements. From my point of view, the TARC should then be renewable.

However, I still agree that by this approach, you’d make a large bet on that anything stays the same in the future. There are discussions about simplifying the process of acquiring citizenship, but who knows, there might also be a negative, unforeseen change.

Which brings me back to your approach of applying for the TARC. Let me clarify something about the health examination first:

  • Yes, you can apply for the TARC outside of Taiwan. In this case, the health examination can be done at your home country (or where you live). But keep in mind what multipass has to say about that. The one crucial thing is whether the report will be accepted by the NIA. While it is possible, I think it’s simply more likely if you do the examination at a hospital in Taiwan.
  • If you apply for the TARC while in Taiwan, and you would do the health check here, the results will only be available after about 2 weeks. This is from the hospital where I did mine, and they even clarify “No express service available.” Not sure whether you would find another clinic that would do this quicker.
  • Can you do the health examination in your home country, but apply for the TARC in Taiwan so that you can submit the form on the date of your arrival? Theoretically, I think so, but I just wouldn’t risk it.

You raise a good question whether it’s theoretically possible to apply for a TARC, but leave Taiwan during this process, all done with your NWOHR passport and the Entry Permit. From my point of view, let me just tell you that when I would do the TARC application, I wouldn’t even think about leaving Taiwan during that time. I just don’t want to risk anything. My over-arching goal would always be to minimize “weak points” which somebody/something could raise against you, or might raise issues at a later time.

Now, I think that there’s no actual law that prevents the applicant from leaving. An applicant might have come to Taiwan, but an “urgent family matter” or something like that required him to leave again temporarily. This sounds human/reasonable to us, but similar like queuing for a seat in a restaurant, the procedure could also enforce that you give up your spot if you leave.

I’d definitely root for you and support you where possible if you do go forward with your coming/leaving strategy. It would probably be also very insightful for other applicants in the future (about what is possible, etc.). However, I think there is another option that we haven’t discussed yet: You might be able to apply for the TARC via an agent in Taiwan.

Theoretically, using an agent is always possible in government applications (just think about the applicant being in quarantine or someone who can’t move due to a health issue). I think it’s a little bit easier if you would do a Taiwan-local application with an agent than an overseas application with an agent. This is because if you apply overseas, there is another part in the chain of responsibility (the local TECO). In the other case, you would still need to come to Taiwan, but the agent could at least take the issued TARC in your place and safe-keep it so that it’s officially issued in the eyes of the government.

Still, this sadly cannot answer when you should apply for a TARC: Now and “use” it later, or apply in the future with the risk that something has changed by then? Perhaps you already mentioned that before, but is your retirement “far away” like 25 years from now or something like 10 years from now? I understand that your work largely won’t allow you to stay the required duration, but will this always be the same in like 3 years from now?

I can only tell you that when I decided on my plan to become a “real” Taiwanese, I didn’t want to wait any second longer. But this is because it means very much to me.

@multipass I definitely plan to collect all of our material and useful links perhaps in something like a Wiki, but part of me is still in “hibernation” until my application has gone through. I want to see that it works with my own eyes, so to say. I hope everything works out, and then all of our cases can be helpful as a reference for future applicants.

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@Lain makes sense! I’ll add notes too if I find new info.

Another couple of thoughts for everyone to consider:

  • I don’t have time to check in detail right now, but I’m not sure if the government is actually obligated to issue a TARC to a qualified individual, or if they reserve the right to deny it for anyone for any reason. This could possibly present an additional risk if they feel that the repeated renewal without residing was some kind of misuse of a visa intended for residing within the country.

  • Right now some people have been throwing around the idea of changing national health care because of overseas citizens coming back to get care during the pandemic situation. I think it’s unlikely because there are much higher priority things to work on from a government perspective, but retirement benefits for some workers were changed (reduced) within the past several years to make the government budget more stable. If you’re planning to do this for retirement and making financial bets, keep in mind that 20 years from now, benefits may be quite different.

I agree.

Indeed, this is a very valid point. In my current judgment it feels overly risky to keep renewing a TARC from overseas if I don’t plan to use it in the next few years. It could look odd on my record when the time comes to actually use the TARC. So I’m currently thinking this is not a good idea – it’s better to apply for the TARC when I need it. But I’ll ask at the TECO office about the conditions for a TARC and if, in their opinion, I fulfill the conditions.

At the same time, during my next trip to Taiwan, I can try to check at the city office to make sure my father’s HHR is up-to-date and to do any needed preparatory work like registering my father’s marriage and death at the HHR office – even if I won’t apply for a TARC immediately, this kind of preparatory confirmation and registration work could still be done beforehand.

Thanks @multipass . That’s good information. To confirm my understanding, when you say “keep in mind that 20 years from now, benefits may be quite different”, by “benefits” are you referring to the possibility of health-insurance “benefits” changing in the future? In my case, I would definitely want/need to be on the national health insurance system (living now in another country with single-payer healthcare, I wouldn’t want to put myself a situation where I would be excluded from national health insurance). On the other hand, I’m not concerned about retirement “benefits” in Taiwan, since I would receive nothing (like a pension) from Taiwan’s pension system since I never paid into any Taiwan pension.

Are there any other “benefits” (other than national health insurance, which I would want to receive, and pension, which I assume I will not receive) that would be relevant?

This is probably the biggest wildcard in the whole situation – not only regarding the TARC application, but more generally regarding China’s views on dual nationality. If this were to happen, conceivably citizens with dual nationality might even be forced to renounce their other nationality. Tax obligations and reporting obligations might change. And so forth.

Slightly more than 10, definitely less than 25.

For my situation I see three broad options in terms of timing. Ignoring the issue of when to apply for the TARC, the bigger issue is when to spend the 1 year living in Taiwan.

  1. Spend the 1 year after retirement (maybe 10-15 years from now). Dermerit: laws might change and make it more difficult for me to apply for TARC and acquire HHR/full citizenship. Merit: No need to worry about taking time off of work.
  2. Spend the 1 year living in Taiwan ASAP, then move back to my current country of residence. Due to other life circumstances this can be at the earliest around 2022. Demerits: I would need to give up my currently stable job and possibly cause a 1 year gap in my employment history. This could cause problems when I try to get a job again after living the 1 year in Taiwan. Also this might cause unforeseen obligations to Taiwan (tax payment obligations or tax reporting obligations). Merit: gain full citizenship immediately under the rules as currently understood, without future risk of the rules changing.
  3. Abandon the entire plan, due to major unforeseen circumstances like changes in Taiwan’s political status, or major changes in dual-nationality laws (such as excluding returning NWOHRs from national health insurance, etc.).

Let’s talk about work for a moment. If you don’t mind my asking, what are you doing for work now while you are living in Taiwan?

My understanding is that, if you apply for a TARC privately as an individual, then you do not have permission to work in Taiwan. This means that during the 1 year while you are establishing residency on the TARC, you cannot work. Is that right?

Let’s take this one step further, into a bit of a gray area. Say I am currently employed by a foreign company, and I get my salary paid into my foreign bank account. Furthermore, assume my foreign company would allow me to work remotely from Taiwan for 1 year while I establish residency on the TARC. Question: would this be allowed on the Taiwan side, if my status is still establishing the 1-year residency on the TARC? I did a bit of searching and I think, unfortunately, this still would not be allowed as it would still be classified as “work” in Taiwan (even though the work is done for a foreign company and the salary is paid to a foreign bank account), because the work activity itself is being done in Taiwan – and such work activity is probably forbidden on an individually-acquired TARC while establishing the 1 year of residency.

Going further, then the other option (if I wanted to work) would be to find a new job at a Taiwanese company (that does not require any travel outside of Taiwan for 1 year), and ask them to sponsor my TARC. I think this is a slightly different process than an TARC application as an individual (without employment), but I think such an employer-sponsored TARC would still be valid for purposes of establishing the required 1 year of residency – again, assuming the company agrees never to send me on a business drip during that crucial 1 year.

Before discussing the details of an employer-sponsored TARC and establishing 1-year residency on that – @Lain if you don’t mind, would you like to share your current work situation while you are now establishing your 1-year residency? Are you allowed to work? Are you working? How does your employer relate to your TARC application? No worries if that information needs to be private for whatever reason.

Finally, another question which I’d like to raise again (but I will also check at the TECO office): what obligations to Taiwan (tax payment obligations, tax reporting obligations, military service obligations, etc.) are created to Taiwan (a) when an NWOHR passport is acquired? (b) when HHR and full citizenship are acquired? In particular, for the next 10 years or so I will probably not live permanently in Taiwan, meaning that if I were to acquire the NWOHR passport or even full citizenship, I would still be living outside of Taiwan. Hence it would be important to know what obligations to Taiwan are created as one takes the steps to gain full citizenship.

If your TARC is based on employment, you should stay for 3 years continuously.

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Hayashi, let me only discuss one part of your post for now, namely about working in Taiwan. Whether/when/how you do the TARC application we can perhaps discuss another time.

The thing about working while having a TARC is a really confusing one because it touches two complicated subjects: Getting the right to work legally in Taiwan, and the definition of what is working in Taiwan.

First of all a small note, as mentioned before I’m mostly familiar with TARC cases based on AF353 or AF384. If one acquires a TARC via employment then obviously that person has some kind of work permit, and if you are a student then as far as I know there are some specific regulations governing that. But let’s discuss being one of AF353 or AF384 TARC applicant.

In general, if foreigners want to work legally in Taiwan, they can apply for an Open Work Permit. The Open Work Permit allows you to do any kind of work without relying on an employer, who would alternatively arrange the working permit for you. As far as I know, foreigners can only apply for one if you also have an alien permanent resident certificate (APRC, in contrast to simply ARC). This kind of foreigner would have lived in Taiwan for 5 years, and then applied for an APRC (just to emphasize, TARC is “our” NWOHR thing, foreigners do not apply for a TARC foreigners renouncing their citizenship also apply for a TARC). Alternatively, foreigners marrying Taiwanese citizens are granted working rights anyway.

Now, how can a TARC holder work in Taiwan, possibly to finance his 1-year stay until citizenship? This can be answered rather straightforward: If you are an NWOHR, but do not have citizenship/nationality (= passport) of another state, then you can simply work in Taiwan legally. However, if you do have dual citizenship, then you are considered a foreigner when it comes to working rights which means that you require a work permit.

“Require a Work Permit” means that either your employer arranges everything, or you have an Open Work Permit. So who can apply for an Open Work Permit? This is regulated in this law, article 51: Employment Service Act - Article Content - Laws & Regulations Database of The Republic of China (Taiwan)

  • A refugee permitted to stay in the Republic of China;
  • One permitted to live with his/her lineal relative who has a registered domestic residence in the Republic of China; or
  • One permitted to stay permanently in the territory of the Republic of China.

For the second, the Chinese version says “經獲准與其在中華民國境內設有戶籍之直系血親共同生活者” and for the third “經取得永久居留者” (roughly: has acquired permanent residency.) Keep that in mind for later.

Obviously we can ignore the first case so let’s look at the 2nd one. This is more or less the status which you have when you are a TARC holder based on AF353. To be specific, your ROC parent has a household in Taiwan, and you may or may not live directly with him. The wording says 共同生活 which means “living together,” although I can’t say for sure whether this means you really need to live in the same building. Theoretically, what happens if your ROC grandfather allows you to live with him, and then he goes on a 1-year world trip (but keeping his HHR active)? Alternatively, let’s interpret the criteria to be the same of applying under AF353 which means: Your ROC dependent is alive, and has a household registration. Which is in contrast to AF384: your ROC dependent may or may not be alive, but the HHR is “unused” (until you come and join it).

And indeed, when it comes to acquiring an Open Work Permit, this seems to be the difference between AF353 and AF384. AF353 may simply apply for an Open Work Permit, where it seems AF384 cannot (c.f. http://soggyspen.pixnet.net/blog/post/255424484-我們無戶籍國民怎麼工作%3F). The reason behind could be that, for the government, the active household is some kind of “guarantee” which AF384 applicants cannot offer. Why this guarantee needs to be there I don’t know, and it seems NWOHRs without another nationality are granted working rights out of mercy.

In the linked blog post, the author mentions that AF384 holders have troubles applying for an Open Work Permit, but it might still be possible. Here is the application form: http://hr.mcu.edu.tw/sites/default/files/MCU/外國人工作許可申請書(個人)_1.pdf (I pulled it off somewhere, so if someone knows the official location, please add that)

Let’s look at what is required for TARC holders. Address of Resident in Taiwan (在台居住地址) is probably where you live—more on that later. Then on the 2nd page: “one original most recent 3-month household registration transcript of lineal relatives living with the Employed” (直系血親共同生活者3 個月內之戶籍謄本正本及親屬關係證明文件).

Notice that on this form, in contrast to many other government forms, you can only fill out one address field. Usually you provide both your HHR address, and the address of where you live. But it seems here they only want one address which is the address of your dependent (“lineal relative(s) living with the Employed”). The blog author now says that, if the HHR address of the AF384 holder is the same as the one that you would enter there, then you could obtain an Open Work Permit. For him (the author) this was not possible, because the address of his father’s HHR was not updated when he moved elsewhere and later passed away, so he couldn’t live there anymore (I assume the apartment simply belonged to someone new). All of this raises the questions:

  • Like mentioned before, does the TARC holder really needs to live there with his dependent? Must he not have any other living space? (Let’s say the HHR address is in Taipei, but you want to have another room in New Taipei City just for fun).
  • Does the ROC dependent really need to live? The blog author simply says this might go unnoticed. You need to bring an HHR transcript, but what if your dependent’s HHR transcript never says that he already passed away [in another country]?

OK, so it seems like it’s getting a little bit difficult for AF384 holders to apply for an Open Work Permit. Perhaps the criteria of “Who can apply for an Open Work Permit” really doesn’t include him (“One permitted to live with his/her lineal relative who has a registered domestic residence in the Republic of China …”). But let’s briefly look at the next one: One permitted to stay permanently in the territory of the Republic of China.

The target of this wording probably is foreigners who have an APRC, but I just find it a little bit strange … isn’t the TARC something like having a permanent residency (= 經取得永久居留者)? After all, you don’t need to leave Taiwan, simply put. And for what it’s worth, a foreigner’s APRC is cancelled if he leaves Taiwan for too long, (c.f. Resident certificate - Wikipedia) so what really is permanent?

I know that I’m probably getting carried away a little bit, but I just find it strange that AF384 are seemingly arbitrarily excluded from applying to an Open Work Permit. Does this mean the government didn’t think about how AF384 holders support themselves during their stay, or perhaps really expect them not to work? I find both possibilities equally strange.

Part of me wants to know what would happen if an AF384 holders walks into the MOL and asks for an Open Work Permit—are we worrying too much, and they have some SOPs guiding that? But then again, I currently don’t want to risk anything …

All in all, to answer the question on how a TARC holder can support himself while waiting for citizenship: You could apply for an Open Work Permit and work legally, you could live off savings, or perhaps you are receiving money without working … Which brings me to the second part (yes this post is long).


I’ll begin this with a follow-up question to:

Question: would [working for a foreign employer] be allowed on the Taiwan side, […] I did a bit of searching and I think, unfortunately, this still would not be allowed as it would still be classified as “work” in Taiwan (even though the work is done for a foreign company and the salary is paid to a foreign bank account), because the work activity itself is being done in Taiwan […]

Just curious, what source of yours says that this is not allowed? I would like to know so that we can possibly group different views on this problem.

As a matter of fact, the question of “Can I work in Taiwan?” has been going around Forumosa for a while. It doesn’t only concern NWOHRs—digital nomads come to Taiwan and work online, largely not for Taiwanese, and it seems tolerated or at least not prosecuted. Are they breaking the law unknowingly?

The law is written very strict, something like “a foreigner must not work in Taiwan,” and it also clarifies that what they mean by “work” is not based on having written contracts or compensation, but simply the act of working itself.

However, when this topic comes up, most people quite reasonably argue that doing online work for someone entirely different does not really concern Taiwan at all, even more so if the money that you receive by this stays in your home country. So far, on Forumosa, we got this hint of an answer here: Freelancing in Taiwan - #40 by yyy

According to this, if only your person is in Taiwan, but your work has no relation to Taiwan whatsoever (e.g. no one pays you NTD, you don’t spend NTD, etc.), then you could do this kind of “work” or more specifically, you don’t require a work permit.

Sadly, we didn’t double-check this answer, but I did some further research on this. Here is what I found:

https://laws.mol.gov.tw/FLAW/FLAWDOC03.aspx?datatype=etype&N2=1070507378&cnt=1&now=1&lnabndn=1&recordno=1

This is a government-issued clarification about the question what constitutes “work,” and that under specific circumstances, those people in Taiwan who do “work” do not require a work permit. There is no English version, but you can open the link and follow along and perhaps the others can double-check my interpretation.

Basically, it first clarifies that employment possibilities for local Taiwanese must be protected, and that no foreigner may work in Taiwan. However, they acknowledge that due to economic and cultural changes, it is necessary to revise their regulations: Provided that you do not jeopardize the employment possibilities of local Taiwanese, and your work falls under the category as specified in their attachment, then you don’t require a work permit while you “work” in Taiwan.

And then there’s the attachment (link at the bottom): https://laws.mol.gov.tw/Download.ashx?pfid=0000236522 Which is a table that outlines several “types of work.” The three columns are:

  1. The kind of work being done by the foreigner
  2. Examples of this kind of work
  3. Necessary considerations

Remember if you work falls in one of these categories, then it seems you don’t need a work permit. The 5th (the last) category is particularly interesting—the first columns says “其他非為境內任何人提供勞務為目的,且無妨礙本國人就業機會之行為” (Any other kind of work that is not done for any local entity, and that doesn’t jeopardize the local job market).

The examples include stuff like translating Buddhist scriptures, but (1) and (3) are interesting:

  • (1) (Abbreviated) A foreigner who is employed by a foreign government, a foreign non-government organization, or a foreign business who comes to Taiwan conducting interviews, doing background research, or collecting image materials.
  • (3) A foreigner who does not have a work permit, but sells goods online in a self-employed manner or sells goods at a market stall. However, these “goods” must not contain doing actual work for other people (e.g. doing massages or giving language lessons).

So it does seem that the government relaxes their rules a little bit, but what I would like to know:

  • Does my work merely need to fall under one of these categories (i.e. the first columns), or does it have to match one of their examples?
  • I’m actually surprised that selling goods at a market stall is legal for foreigners—of all things that would be illegal, I would have that counted in because you are earning real NTD money. Instead, the table states “goods are OK, but services aren’t,” implying that the government thinks these services will target real persons in Taiwan (e.g. the massages thing). But what if a service is done online for people completely outside of Taiwan?

Perhaps the others could join in and offer their thoughts on these exceptions. Did I misunderstand something? Anyone here who would offer writing a message to the MOL asking for clarification?

I apologize that my post will not be able to add much to the topic of working during the TARC residency, since I don’t have information on that. But picking up on a couple of points and topics in your post:

I fall into the second category, holding the citizenship/nationality of another country.

It was just somewhere here on the forum. I’ll review my notes and post the link here if I find it.

Returning to another topic, unrelated to work but related to (re-)establishing my own HHR in Taiwan during residency, something you said earlier, and something you said in your latest post, caught my eye – the issue about the validity of the old address on an old HHR (my father’s old HHR that I would want to re-activate and re-use as my own):

My question on all of this is: What if the old address on my deceased father’s old HHR is no longer valid? Can that pose any problems for me if I were to try to use that old HHR (with invalid address, of deceased parent) as my own for purposes of establishing 1-year residency on the TARC?

Specifically, the address on my father’s old HHR (as far as I know now – I need to check next time I am in Taiwan) where he used to live is now an unmaintained building where I think no one currently lives. I think the building has been classified by the city to become some kind of historical monument so it won’t be demolished. In other words – it is probably not possible to live at that exact address that is recorded on my father’s old HHR. Is this a problem?

I ask because of the comment you made in passing:

Now, the context of your comment above was referring to problems with getting an Open Work Permit due to an invalid (uninhabitable by the applicant) address on the old HHR of the deceased parent. The context of my question regards the earlier step of TARC application – will this invalid HHR address interfere with my TARC application and eventual acquisition of full citizenship?

Logically, if we assume that based on past successful cases that an old HHR (my father’s) of a deceased ROC lineal ancestor can in fact be re-used by a lineal descendant (me) to establish residency as a route to full citizenship, then the invalidity of the old address on the old HHR of the deceased lineal ancestor should in theory not interfere with the TARC/citizenship application, because it’s to be expected that the address (registered on an old HHR) of a deceased NWHR could very likely be occupied by someone else later.

Apologies for jumping ahead to that topic, but I just wanted to share my ideas on that in case it might be useful to others. Ignoring for now the issue of timing (when I would do the applications), basically my idea would be (similar to @multipass’s case) to try to get both the NWOHR passport application and the TARC application done at the local TECO office. Before going to the local TECO office, to make their job easy, I think I should prepare my own “case file” in advance that contains in printed form everything they might possibly want to see, including a “dossier” sheet explaining the key factors of my situation (deceased ROC father, marriage not registered in Taiwan, my birth not registered in Taiwan, etc.), a flowchart showing what I want to do (NWOHR passport → TARC → residency → National ID card), completed application forms, supporting documents for those that I have, placeholder documents for supporting documents that I don’t yet have but can obtain (e.g. criminal background check from my home country), and printed relevant excerpts from the law (both in English for my reference, and in Chinese for their reference) to support every part of the application (e.g. list of conditions needed to fulfill AF384). This way, when I ask at the TECO office, “can I get an NWOHR passport and a TARC?”, and when the TECO office sees the case file with all application forms completed and all supporting documents (even if some are placeholders) present, that will reduce their work to almost zero and enable them to just focus on what, if anything, is missing.

Again, sorry that I couldn’t add any more information about the work topic, but I also would be interested if anyone can offer any insights about what kind of work is permitted on an AF384 TARC.

If a lineal relative with the deactivated HHR is alive, the HHR should be activated to be used to get your TARC. To activate the HHR, the person should provide a proof the ownership or rental centract of the address’s place you want to register the reactivated HHR. And, you, the TARC applicant, can use the address for your TARC and future HHR, and can be regarded as living with the lineal relative.

If the person passed away as in your case, the HHR does not need to and cannot be activated, but you need to show a proof of ownership or rental centract of any address when you register your HHR.

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iiuc, permanent residency means HHR for nationals.

Would you therefore agree with my above proposed statements about “Status 3” and “Status 4”?

Also, do you have a link to the actual application form for registering my own HHR? “Registering my own HHR” is equivalent to applying for 定居, right?

To avoid confusion I’m trying to start using the proper Chinese terms for the various steps that I will need to take.

On a related matter, is this the proper link to the TARC application form?

申請台灣地區居留證

From: https://www.immigration.gov.tw/5382/5385/7244/7250/7296/居留/148063/

There probably isn’t a 英語 version of that document, is there?

here is how to apply for establishing your HHR after your 定居 is approved. In Chinese
https://www.ris.gov.tw/documents/html/2/3/4/702.html
Most probably you will establish a HHR just for you.

In some of my replies, I think I was confusing some information on cases HHR holder is alive and passed away.

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In the context of article 51 of the law, they specifically only talk about foreign workers (“Where the employed foreign worker is amongst any of the following …”).

Hayashi, yes, this is the application form, and yes it seems that there is no English version, although you could have a look at the “introduction” here: National Immigration Agency, R.O.C. (Taiwan) - 0303 Instructions on Document Submission in Applications for Residence or Extension of Residence or Change of Reason for Residence in the Taiwan Area by R.O.C. (Taiwan) Nationals Without Household Registration in the Taiwan Area

Be aware though that the English wording is not very clear. We can also help you fill out the application form when the time has come.

About your question of the validness of your father’s address:

  • If the ROC dependent is still alive and has an active HHR (so you would apply under AF353), then by definition the address in it is valid, otherwise the ROC citizen would not have a valid HHR.
  • If the ROC dependent has passed away (so you apply under AF384), and the address of the HHR that you will use is already gone, I don’t think this will a problem for your TARC application. The authorities know how to deal with this.

As a matter of fact, the author of the blog post mentioned that he had problems applying for the work permit (because of the “invalid” address), but he did succesfully apply for his TARC as AF384 (even with the “invalid” address).

I just wasn’t sure what the authorities will do, but it’s probably what tando said. With that being said, my initial reply to

Status 4: After staying one year continuously in Taiwan, I earn the right to register myself on my dependent’s HHR (on my father’s old HHR). The registration address would be my rental apartment in Taiwan.

was therefore incorrect because of the fact that in your case, it seems you will have to set up a new (HHR) address.

As for your plan on how to apply, yes it’s a good idea that you prepare some kind of replies to questions that may arise, but let me tell you this beforehand: multipass had to argue with the TECO about his application, several others had to argue with the TECO about whether they may apply, and when I applied I also had the relevant law excerpts with me to show the clerks, but that doesn’t help you at all if you meet someone who just won’t believe what you say, or lays out the law differently to what you believe is true (happened in my case).

Addendum to clarify:

Again, sorry that I couldn’t add any more information about the work topic, but I also would be interested if anyone can offer any insights about what kind of work is permitted on an AF384 TARC.

It’s part of my reply. As an AF384 applicant with dual citizenship, you must not work in Taiwan. But the definition of “work in Taiwan” is revised—if you work for a foreign company, it seems (by my newest research) that this is not considered work in Taiwan’s eyes or rather, you do not require a work permit.

Alternatively, to work as an AF384 applicant, get a work permit through a local employer or try to apply for an Open Work Permit. There is no stuff like “This work is allowed for an AF384 applicant”—it’s simply work with a work permit, do not work, or do some kind of work which is considered to be permit-free for Taiwan.

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So many walls of text… :dizzy_face:

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This is a really outstanding post/comment by Lain and the links are really helpful. I just want to add some additional notes and info about this comment and the subsequent ones:

In the linked blog post, the author mentions that AF384 holders have troubles applying for an Open Work Permit, but it might still be possible. Here is the application form: http://hr.mcu.edu.tw/sites/default/files/MCU/外國人工作許可申請書(個人)_1.pdf (I pulled it off somewhere, so if someone knows the official location, please add that)

The blog author also posted a link at the end of the blog post, which matches what I found via Google Search:

Please note that this is from the official ministry of labor government website and has dates for when it was updated and last reviewed. It is slightly different from the version of the form that you posted.

Note that the blog post seems to probably be from 2018:

Then on the 2nd page: “one original most recent 3-month household registration transcript of lineal relatives living with the Employed” (直系血親共同生活者3 個月內之戶籍謄本正本及親屬關係證明文件).

The version of the form that I posted in this comment instead says:

依親對象之身分證明文件影本。5.The ID certificate photocopy of the relative (in Taiwan) you depend on

Here we see it’s “依親對象” rather than “共同生活”. I’m not sure if this helps AF384 holders actually. Sometimes it feels like people sometimes treat AF384 as 依親, just that your relative is deceased. So, why did it change? Things don’t change for no reason, usually. It would be interesting to find out. At this point I can only speculate. This could be important because people in our situation may have our parent(s) 身份證 which I have presented before I think. Could that be sufficient for us? It would be interesting to find out.

Keep in mind that 對象 can sometimes mean a partner (i.e. marriage), although it doesn’t need to mean this. I don’t think it’s really meant to be restricted to such a definition in this case, but I think it could contribute to confusion or just an annoying tendency for some people to start thinking of us in that context automatically. In combination with the fact that our TARCs have “spouse” fields (empty for those of us who are not married), I just find the whole process to be riddled with possible assumptions about how laws should be applied.

If you look at the various criteria for TARC applicants, there is no designation of which count as 依親: https://www.immigration.gov.tw/media/42540/相關證明文件一覽表.pdf

Does anyone have any documentation that shows which categories count as 依親? I find it interesting that on our TARCs, there is only a possible field for “spouse” but not for dependent relative.

If you search Google for images related to “依親居留證”, it’s not easy to find examples of AF353:

https://www.google.com/search?q=依親居留證&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwiEyPGhkNHpAhXIAaYKHRvYC8QQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=依親居留證&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzIECCMQJzIECCMQJzIECAAQGDIECAAQGDIECAAQGDIECAAQGDIECAAQGDIECAAQGDIECAAQGDIECAAQGFC_lQFYo5kBYOSaAWgAcAB4AIABpwGIAYYCkgEDMS4xmAEAoAEBqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWc&sclient=img&ei=d9XMXsSwFciDmAWbsK-gDA&bih=803&biw=1394

I found this example but it’s really old and fuzzy, but to me it doesn’t look like it lists 依親 for AF353 (this is almost 2 decades old, though – another case of multiracial/multinational people having trouble in Taiwan): 台烏聯姻 5混血兒終於取得居留權││TVBS新聞網

If you look closely, if looks like in the photo AF353 was classified as 海外僑民, which may be outdated terminology or at least not what our TARCs say currently.

Also a small note about this:

(just to emphasize, TARC is “our” NWOHR thing, foreigners do not apply for a TARC)

I think this is true for most cases, but there is or was at least one case where naturalizing foreigners who renounce their original citizenship must be on a TARC while waiting for a specific duration to qualify for HHR and passport, I think (or something like that). So, yes, TARC is in most cases for people with heritage from someone with Taiwan HHR, but there is one or more cases where a foreigner with no such lineage/heritage may get a TARC.

Notice that on this form, in contrast to many other government forms, you can only fill out one address field. Usually you provide both your HHR address, and the address of where you live. But it seems here they only want one address which is the address of your dependent (“lineal relative(s) living with the Employed”).

I might be going crazy, but I didn’t see this. All I saw was one field for address, which is for:

在台居住地址Address of Resident in Taiwan

and under 申請人(Name of foreigner):

住居所

To me, this seems like it would be the 居留證 holder.

Also, note that this form is a “one size fits all” solution for all cases. However, not all cases will need all fields. We don’t know which are required fields for which scenarios. For example, there is a section if you have someone act as an agent on your behalf to fill out the paperwork, and this is certainly not applicable/required for all applicant scenarios.

So, do AF384 need to have a relative vouch for them as seems to be the spirit/intent of those fields? Or do they simply not need to fill them in? I’m not sure if any of us truly can answer that unless we’ve applied and talked about it in depth with several official sources.

Another example of form fields like this: tax rates for home ownership are different based on if you reside there or not. The application form for identifying the home as the one you primarily live in has fields to indicate if you have a 居留證, but the same form later also has a field for HHR. If the form anticipates that the applicant using the form could be on a visa, they probably can’t be expected to fill out the HHR part, right? I can write more notes after I go clarify that with that office for that form, but this is just an example of form fields applying to different people/scenarios differently for a single form.

Part of me wants to know what would happen if an AF384 holders walks into the MOL and asks for an Open Work Permit—are we worrying too much, and they have some SOPs guiding that? But then again, I currently don’t want to risk anything …
According to this, if only your person is in Taiwan, but your work has no relation to Taiwan whatsoever (e.g. no one pays you NTD, you don’t spend NTD, etc.), then you could do this kind of “work” or more specifically, you don’t require a work permit.
Sadly, we didn’t double-check this answer, but I did some further research on this. Here is what I found:
勞動部勞動法令查詢系統-判解函釋
This is a government-issued clarification about the question what constitutes “work,” and that under specific circumstances, those people in Taiwan who do “work” do not require a work permit. There is no English version, but you can open the link and follow along and perhaps the others can double-check my interpretation.

Because I didn’t want to do it myself, I asked a relative to help me ask the labor office, and he said the office told him that if the work is outside of Taiwan, for a non-Taiwan employer, and the employee is employed outside of Taiwan (i.e. the legally binding agreement is formed outside of Taiwan), the ministry of labor does not care about it. That said, they handle labor issues, but isn’t deportation or visa cancellation handled by the NIA? Can 1 office truly answer this question on their own? I assume NIA wouldn’t take such action on their own if the labor office does not see it as a violation, but is that a safe assumption? What about the tax office?

@Hayashi:

Returning to another topic, unrelated to work but related to (re-)establishing my own HHR in Taiwan during residency, something you said earlier, and something you said in your latest post, caught my eye – the issue about the validity of the old address on an old HHR (my father’s old HHR that I would want to re-activate and re-use as my own):
My question on all of this is: What if the old address on my deceased father’s old HHR is no longer valid? Can that pose any problems for me if I were to try to use that old HHR (with invalid address, of deceased parent) as my own for purposes of establishing 1-year residency on the TARC?

I don’t think the address currently needs to be valid for the TARC application. I think it’s just that the HHR needs to be not cancelled. A lot of streets and buildings were demolished and renamed and addresses changed over the past generation or two. Many addresses changed or do not exist anymore.

On the subject of address, I used a relative’s address for my TARC (not lineal relative and this relative is not used in my application in any way) and it’s just a way for them to know where I plan to reside. I recently bought a new home, and went to change the address. One staff person correctly asked if I bought a home and gave me a form, and as a side note incorrectly asked if I was from Hong Kong, maybe because currently there aren’t a lot of other types of people at the immigration office (although I still consider it to be total speculation on their behalf, maybe because I’m multiracial and Anthony Wong has been in the news lately). I explained to them I was a NWOHR. After I filled out the form I got another ticket and went to another counter, where another staff person looked at my TARC and asked if I was a “依親” case. I wasn’t sure how to respond so I said yes (maybe this was incorrect and we don’t count as 依親), but my mother passed away already, and then they said “well then what are you going to change the address to?” and I explained that I recently bought a home and they asked to see the ownership papers, which I provided them with. So based on this recent experience, my understanding is that the address is just where you officially live, but if you have a living relative that you’re using for the TARC as a relative you’re depending on, then you’re supposed to use that address. Note that in practice, everyone knows that an HHR address is not necessarily where someone actually sleeps day-to-day (after all, during elections people often travel back to their HHR address to vote in their local district), so I assume if you’re using a relative to depend on for your TARC, they probably want you to use the same address but realize you might not be there every day/night.

I think this might relate to what Lain wrote about the blog post:

For him (the author) this was not possible, because the address of his father’s HHR was not updated when he moved elsewhere and later passed away, so he couldn’t live there anymore

The blog post says:

在申請居留證時,填寫的居住地址一定要與你的直系血親的身分證/戶籍謄本上的地址一致。這麼一來,雖然對方已過世,從法律的觀點還是可以證明你與父/母親曾經同居過(縱使沒同居),工作許可證即便會被核准。

To put it less technically, this sounds like office worker bull**** to me. What I mean is, it sounds like what the government office told him was possibly not correct. How would that prove that you lived with the deceased relative if you used their former place of residence for your TARC as your current address of residence after they died? What if we lived together in a foreign country? Just to rant more, specifically this:

從法律的觀點還是可以證明你與父/母親曾經同居過

So I left my mom’s body at birth and then we just never lived together? That’s pretty rare. So if your mom dies in childbirth, the government says you deserve no related rights? This all just smells a little off to me. It smells like an office worker just made up their own interpretation. I’m speculating, but it wouldn’t be the first time this happened.

This way, when I ask at the TECO office, “can I get an NWOHR passport and a TARC?”, and when the TECO office sees the case file with all application forms completed and all supporting documents (even if some are placeholders) present, that will reduce their work to almost zero and enable them to just focus on what, if anything, is missing.

Yes, definitely do this, but beware that it doesn’t mean the TECO office knows how the AF384 workflow works. You may still need to explain it to them, and if they tell you otherwise, tell them they need to talk to the immigration office in Taiwan. One specific TECO office worker gave me such bull**** reasons why I could not apply (i.e. they didn’t finish reading a sentence???) and seemed to only believe me when I told them point blank that the NIA in Taiwan told me I could apply and under what rationale they explained to me. The entire conversation was in Chinese, also. I had to explain to them in Chinese how the law they are supposed to facilitate works. Not all TECO experiences are like this, but be prepared for this type of person.

@tando :

iiuc, permanent residency means HHR for nationals.

I don’t think so, at least in this case. The law Lain was referring to is about work permits and the section is specifically about foreign people engaging in work, and nationals with HHR need not apply for a work permit, so it wouldn’t make sense to include them here I think. I think in this context, this most likely is specifically about a 永久居留證 holder and therefore 永久居留者.

Example of just one type of 永久居留者, presumably without HHR and under another nationality:

image

Here are more items for the 定居 process:

Note this:

九、載有正確設籍地址之證明文件:指戶口名簿、國民身分證、房屋所有權狀、近期房屋稅單或租賃契約正、影本(五者擇一,正本驗畢退還)。但設籍地址與依親對象相同且已檢附其國民身分證(或戶口名簿)者,免附。

Again, for setting up the HHR you have options. You can use 1 of 5 options. One of the options is lease contract (i.e. rental agreement). Make sure you get that from your landlord if you’re renting and not planning to use one of the other 4 options.

Also, here we see again some differentiation for people who are using the status of 依親

And for getting the HHR and ID card:

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yes, I tried to mean this and nationals cannot get the APRC.

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It doesn’t matter for my case, but I happened to read about exactly this case yesterday, so in the spirit of reinforcing our collective correct understanding, I’ll post the link here:
https://www-ws.gov.taipei/Download.ashx?u=LzAwMS9VcGxvYWQvcHVibGljL0F0dGFjaG1lbnQvNDIyNDExMTc1Mzg2LnBkZg%3D%3D&n=NDIyNDExMTc1Mzg2LnBkZg%3D%3D&icon=..pdf

Page 87 of that document says:

So, it’s exactly as you said. And although that document doesn’t concern NWOHRs specifically, it does contain a lot of practical information about moving to and living in Taiwan.

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This is an old information, which is not applied today. They get TARC and NWOHR status before renouncing original nationality now.

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