Wait… are you replying to Fox or me here? I’m confused because I’ve re-read what I’ve written and can’t find anything ‘intolerant, prejudiced or bigoted’…
You see that little flag thingee under his monicker? That’s the flag of England, that’s where he comes from. 'Nuff said.
HG[/quote]
I’ll drink to that.
[quote=“derek1978”]Keep your optomistic views as long as you can. Eventually, be it a month - a few months - or a year from now, you will need that positive energy to keep you going.
The [color=darkred]reality[/color] is, there are some Taiwanese that do view foreign English teachers in a negative way. There are others who don’t. Knowing this, you need to be prapared to face both ends of this reality. When you are puting in long hours, pouring your heart and energy into your teaching efforts, and taking a genuine interest in your students acadmeic success and then have this reality surface…it is like a kick in the ass and a slap in the face. It can sting, especially when you are a tad bit homesick. (And you will be a tad bit homesick - everyone has those days).
So be prepared my optomistic friend. Keep your head up above the shit that is oh so common on Taiwans sidewalks and remember your reasons for coming here. Good luck and see you around![/quote]
I never said I didnt believe that some Taiwanese have these biases. I was just saying that I thought j99l88e77 was full of it if he/she thought that most people move to Taiwan to teach English because theyre losers at home…
[quote=“Fox”][quote]
Tom, [color=red]you come up with some crap at times, but you’ve clearly out done yourself this time.[/color] Who are you to judge what the Chinese should or shouldn’t learn or whether or not English is of value to anybody? [color=red]Just because you are not mature or patient enough[/color] to handle someone’s crappy English, or feel some how slighted because somebody took an opportunity to try their English out on you, hardly seems to justify [color=red]the remainder of your nonsense.[/color]
Like this:
[quote]I hate the drunk teacher, and I hate the pushy parent equally. But in my mind the drunk is making out as a consequence of the parents greed. They parents, don’t forget, continually complain about Whitey, even though he is the reason they chose that school.
[/quote][/quote][/quote]
Fox, a number of points spring to mind.
-
It is not OK to hurl insults on this website. You are one of the long term users of this board and perhaps you still feel it’s alright to tell me I talk crap. Well, it isn’t. You should suck it up, try to understand more about what I wrote, and stop thinking with your heart instead of your head. You have done this to me on more than this one occasion.
-
You are not an English teacher, correct? Would I have the same opinions about your profession as you have? Could I tell you that you were, based on your experiences, talking garbage?
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Are my opinions not to be voiced? Can they not be addressed and discussed properly? If they do not deserve public debate, do they still deserve your public scorn? I suggested that the Taiwanese could better use their time in studying business, than in learning a language which they will rarely, rarely use? Is that such a shocking opinion? Does it really imply I am short tempered and impatient? Do I suggest that someone speaking English to me is a slight? My point was that the learner learns the language, doesn’t actually leave Taiwan to work (like the other 99.99% of kids I have taught) and they will very very rarely get a chance to use this thing. It is therefore impractical. Fox, please remove from your mind any thoughts of hatred or malice on my part and then read my post again.
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The parents of many young kids do greedily wish that their child will become a financial genius. I suggest this based on my experiences, and not on data, and it isn’t an emotional call. It is an observation of mine. Drunken foreign lothario’s make a lifestyle from this greed.
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Do you say those things to your family? “Morning Fox.” “Ah, get over yourself, nonsense maker. Tis mid morning.”
[quote=“Fox”]
This just feeds people’s prejudice, but it’s really a big, “So what!”
I don’t think you can use your criteria to judge the reponsibility or otherwise of a teacher in the classroom to their job. It is the sort of judgemental attitude that makes sense to Mormans living in Salt Lake City, but it doesn’t make a lot of sense to me and it doesn’t mean that a teacher is irresponsible, ill prepared or incapable.
“It doesn’t put one in the right frame of mind to teach children.” How would you know that?[/quote]
I’ve been working with “professional” teachers for the last five years. I’m talking about teachers who have certification to teach in the public schools of their home countries.
Time and time again, the worst teachers, despite their qualifications or lack thereof, were those who were regularly plastered on the weekends and came into work worn out from spending the weekend hanging out in a bar, hanging over a toilet, and hanging out over a bar toilet. They would do the minimum amount of work possible and crawl onto a nap mat during their kids’ naptime to catch up on their sleep. They were not there for the kids. They were there to make money and party. There was absolutely no doubt what their purpose for being in Taiwan wasn’t - teaching.
The best ones, the ones who actually cared about the kids and spent time talking to them when they weren’t being paid to and were sincerely concerned when it didn’t seem like they would pass the class, *the ones who weren’t playing “Paper, Scissors, Stone” in front of the kids to see who would be the one “stuck with them” and who would get to save the table at the bar, or *get drunk the night before the buxiban field day and show up still plastered, were those whose lived didn’t revolve around alcohol and drugs.
I think I’ve worked with probably 20+ teachers during my time at my former school. Not enough to create a formal sample of experiences, but enough to say that you shouldn’t dismiss that poster’s conclusion, either, because from what I’ve seen, he’s pretty much on the money.
Anyone who lets their partying interfere with their jobs as a teacher has no business being involved in shaping young minds.
I find it funny that anyone who has ever enrolled their kids into a mediocre buxiban would complain about bad, overpaid teachers. I mean, hell, they’re the ones who have created a market for anyone with the right skin color and nationality, despite their language abilities, teaching abilities, and motivation, to teach their kids.
They have the power to change what kinds of people are teaching their kids if it’s that big of an issue to them. 
(* These things did happen at my school with “real” teachers. The people who did these things were never told that were “three minutes from being fired” as I was.)
[quote=“Bodo”][quote=“Namahottie”][quote=“TainanCowboy”]
They voiced the opinion that these “teachers” were here working with their (in a collective sense) children, making damn good money and not giving their children a good role model. Their words – not mine.
I did mention that the best role models were those of the parents. This was understood, but countered with the mention of the high place teachers held in the traditional Chinese scheme of things. I have heard this before; but frankly I have seen some dipshits at the young Cowboys school, so I have my questions about this also.
This group also includes several active and retired college professors.
Just my observations from a select, and probably atypical, group.
No outright hostility or bad-mouthing of the “import teachers.” More of a ‘resigned tolerance’ of the changing of things on the island.[/quote]
This is probably the most realistic post here. This is true, that teachers are one of the best role models as these children spend about 8 to 10 hours a day around them. Aside from me, most people have a teacher who they remember that has made a huge impact or steered them toward a better life. Teachers are the salt of the earth.[/quote]
Namma,
TC didn’t say in his post that English teachers are the “BEST” role models or even “one” of the best roles models, but simply that the culture in Taiwan is such that teachers are respected and looked to as role models simply for cultural reasons/history NOT because they ARE good role models necessarily. Now in your case, I am positive that they have good reason to look to you as a role model. You seem to me to care about your students and your responsibilities as a teacher. 
[color=red]
Although, you could work on your spelling a little, and be an even better role model for students learning English.
[/color]
Bodo[/quote]
Okay not only do I still have to work on my spelling on F.com because it really really matters but now i have to work on my reading comprehension skills. Sheezz when is it gonna end
[quote=“derek1978”]
The [color=darkred]reality[/color] is, there are some [/quote]
Reality is subjective.
Tom,
Actually I am an English teacher and an editor. You’ll see I’ve got a whole thread going in the stickies of lesson plans for adults. I have a language school for kids and an editing business that includes in its client list the National Palace Museum, the Central Weather Bureau, and a couple of Taiwan’s only five Thompson’s Indexed journals. Now it is open season on my English.
When I read what you wrote I took offence for all the people who have to swallow your malicious characterizations such as, "greedy parents, drunk teachers, ‘Seben hundree fotee ay dorra,’ useless shop assistants. You use these insults with gay abandon. It’s inflamatory and if I tell you I think its crap, it’s because I think it’s crap.
“The drunk teacher is making out as a consequence of parents’ greed.” That is simply jaded nonsense.
But take my opinions with a grain of salt. It’s the Internet. I like all your posts even the above one and I’m not trying to stop you posting inanity. God knows I post plenty of that.
IminoU,
What people do in their private lives is their own business. Being out drunk the night before work doesn’t in and of itself make you an irresponsible teacher. It just doesn’t. It might be a symptom, but it ain’t the disease.
It definitely isn’t this:
“It doesn’t put one in the right frame of mind to teach children.” It might be the only thing left to put you in the right frame of mind to teach children.
No other word for it but dignified.
Teachers cop a stupid amount of flack and I’m guilty of paying out on them too. However, in my case it is just fun tapping the self loathing of many teachers. I think in part teachers are open to slagging because it is just so damned hard to gauge your productivity (I hate thinking like that), and that just makes it all the more difficult to recognise the wins.
I really was a very crap teacher, which did surprise and disappoint me. But I do have friends teaching in Taiwan that are astoundingly serious about it. I’m sure even the worst lackey is a step up from anything on offer at a Chinese language school.
HG
[quote=“Fox”]Tom,
Actually I am an English teacher and an editor. You’ll see I’ve got a whole thread going in the stickies of lesson plans for adults. I have a language school for kids and an editing business that includes in its client list the National Palace Museum, the Central Weather Bureau, and a couple of Taiwan’s only five Thompson’s Indexed journals. Now it is open season on my English.
[color=red]When I read what you wrote I took offence for all the people who have to swallow your malicious characterizations such as, "greedy parents, drunk teachers, ‘Seben hundree fotee ay dorra,’ useless shop assistants. You use these insults with gay abandon. It’s inflamatory and if I tell you I think its crap, it’s because I think it’s crap.[/color]
“The drunk teacher is making out as a consequence of parents’ greed.” That is simply jaded nonsense.
But take my opinions with a grain of salt. It’s the Internet. I like all your posts even the above one and I’m not trying to stop you posting inanity. God knows I post plenty of that.
IminoU,
What people do in their private lives is their own business. Being out drunk the night before work doesn’t in and of itself make you an irresponsible teacher. It just doesn’t. It might be a symptom, but it ain’t the disease.
It definitely isn’t this:
“It doesn’t put one in the right frame of mind to teach children.” It might be the only thing left to put you in the right frame of mind to teach children.[/quote]
How can you be such a puritan? Defending those people from my gay abandon? Do me a favour. You are the type who’d want to ban bear baiting cos the people were wrong to enjoy it, and not because it hurt the bear!
It isn’t an insult to say the ‘seben hundree…’ you just chose to interpret it as one. My point is that one goes to school, one strives to learn something, and one has little to no practical use for it. It becomes a redundant skill, and at best, a party piece.
Most, and I reckon thats ok to say, most parents have a warped sense of their child’s potential. In Taiwan parents do push their children into cram schools (where most of the bad teachers breed) when it is largely unneccessary for them to do so. They are therefore greedy people. No?
Drunk teachers: This point goes for the previous one too… No single statement is going to cover all the people. Not all teachers are drunks, of course.
But anyway, as you say, it’s the internet. I’m sure they are ‘cyber’ thanking you for sticking up for them so vociferously.
You are saying shagging as many women as you like and getting drunk can be equated to being a degenerate. It doesn’t put you in the right frame of mind for teaching children. I’m saying that is wrong. I don’t think you can equate one with the other and if you do you are feeding the prejudices that exist. Some people don’t think men should be allowed to teach kids. Some people don’t think gays should be allowed to teach kids. Some people don’t think Casanovas should be allowed to teach kids. Some people don’t think fun loving young adults should be allowed to teach kids. I think the standard should be judged on job performance not prejudice.
If you feel you look bad because you think other people are making you look bad then maybe you’ve got some introspection ahead of you. You equate one with the other, I believe, because you think it too. But it ain’t necessarily so.
You might think my point of view is quite radical and I’m sure you are not alone, but I happen to think it’s a lot more egalitarian than your own and ultimately a better message.
Shag all you like, drink all you can. But don’t come into work and be able to give less than 100% because you are hung over, exhausted, or whatever. THAT’s the point. Duh.
Absolutely.
Loathed Chicago??? Now ive heard everything 
Where did you live? And did you move there without knowing anyone?
[quote=“TomHill”]In Taiwan parents do push their children into cram schools (where most of the bad teachers breed) when it is largely unneccessary for them to do so. They are therefore greedy people. No?
[/quote]
I agree that cram schools are somewhat unnecessary and that the kids need some time just to be kids, but please tell me how it is greedy to want to give your children the best opportunity to succeed later in life, whether it be emotionally, spiritually, financially, socially etc ? I think that some of the parents are pushing their kids too hard and not allowing them to develop socially as much as they could, but come on… they are sending them to cram schools because they want their children to excel. How does that have anything to do with greed??? So if I was a parent, the proper thing to do would be to not send my kid to college because that would be too greedy. I mean you can make a living off of a high school education right? 
The parents who send their kids to my school seem to be a fairly selfless bunch.
Any parent will tell you parenting in Taiwan is super demanding, especially if you have young children. I have students that come from Taoyuan to my downtown school. That is a three-hour round trip for a two-hour class. Those parents are giving up five hours of their day just to get their kids to English class. Greedy, greedy, greedy.
I’m drunk of course.
[quote=“Fox”]
IminoU,
What people do in their private lives is their own business. Being out drunk the night before work doesn’t in and of itself make you an irresponsible teacher. It just doesn’t. It might be a symptom, but it ain’t the disease.[/quote]
It does when you are to be responsible for the safety and well-being of 20 young children. Would you want to leave your kids in the care of someone nursing a hangover?
[quote=“Fox”]It definitely isn’t this:
“It doesn’t put one in the right frame of mind to teach children.” It might be the only thing left to put you in the right frame of mind to teach children.[/quote]
If you have to drink in order to be “in the right frame of mind to teach children”, then perhaps you are in the wrong line of work. :fume:
I’m sorry, but I wouldn’t want to leave my child’s education in the hands of someone who cannot manage their personal life in a way that it doesn’t spill over into their resposibilities with my kid.
How can you manage a classroom when you can’t even manage your drinking?
[quote=“ImaniOU”][quote=“Fox”]
IminoU,
What people do in their private lives is their own business. Being out drunk the night before work doesn’t in and of itself make you an irresponsible teacher. It just doesn’t. It might be a symptom, but it ain’t the disease.[/quote]
It does when you are to be responsible for the safety and well-being of 20 young children. Would you want to leave your kids in the care of someone nursing a hangover?
[quote=“Fox”]It definitely isn’t this:
“It doesn’t put one in the right frame of mind to teach children.” It might be the only thing left to put you in the right frame of mind to teach children.[/quote]
If you have to drink in order to be “in the right frame of mind to teach children”, then perhaps you are in the wrong line of work. :fume:
I’m sorry, but I wouldn’t want to leave my child’s education in the hands of someone who cannot manage their personal life in a way that it doesn’t spill over into their resposibilities with my kid.
How can you manage a classroom when you can’t even manage your drinking?[/quote]
I’m thinking Fox is taking the piss (on himself)…ewwwww
Because I drank so much.
[quote]If you have to drink in order to be “in the right frame of mind to teach children”, then perhaps you are in the wrong line of work.
I’m sorry, but I wouldn’t want to leave my child’s education in the hands of someone who cannot manage their personal life in a way that it doesn’t spill over into their resposibilities with my kid.
How can you manage a classroom when you can’t even manage your drinking?[/quote]
That’s your point, but it’s not mine. My point is as long as your personal life does not interfer with your work than who are we to judge. Your point is prejudical.
Because I drank so much.[/quote]
two words:
rubber
sheets
