English teachers thought of as professional drop outs

Work Teaching English in Taiwan
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[quote=“Fox”]You are saying shagging as many women as you like and getting drunk can be equated to being a degenerate. It doesn’t put you in the right frame of mind for teaching children. I’m saying that is wrong. I don’t think you can equate one with the other and if you do you are feeding the prejudices that exist. Some people don’t think men should be allowed to teach kids. Some people don’t think gays should be allowed to teach kids. Some people don’t think Casanovas should be allowed to teach kids. Some people don’t think fun loving young adults should be allowed to teach kids. I think the standard should be judged on job performance not prejudice.

If you feel you look bad because you think other people are making you look bad then maybe you’ve got some introspection ahead of you. You equate one with the other, I believe, because you think it too. But it ain’t necessarily so.

You might think my point of view is quite radical and I’m sure you are not alone, but I happen to think it’s a lot more egalitarian than your own and ultimately a better message.[/quote]

I’m really quite flabbergasted… let’s recap - I opined that teaching was a noble profession with a lot of people doing it out of sheer love; an important profession that commands respect from all involved. I also suggested that Taiwanese do have a preconceived notion of foreign English teachers as boozy backpacking kids, which from my standpoint is half-bollocks, half-true.

Rather than complain about the boozy backpacker image being untrue or unfair (which I could happily go along with) you go on the defensive to say that it’s perfectly fine to be the stereotypical boozy English teacher and anyone who thinks otherwise is a nosy do-gooder? What a thoroughly bizarre argument.

When placed in such a position of responsibility I do not think it is okay to take an ‘all bets are off’ approach to your private life. I’m not talking about a puritanical lifestyle but rather some modicum of self-control - that means work and fun coexist together happily but work comes first. I know a few English teachers out here who are even proud of getting shitfaced every Saturday/Sunday and this saddens me terribly when I think of all those loving, dedicated teachers who put so much heart into their job. You can be as pleased with yourself and your egalitarian ways as you like but seeing such a blase attitude to working with young children has left me with a very sour taste.

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Webster Definition

Prejudicial \Prej`u*di"cial\
1. Biased, possessed, or blinded by prejudices; as, to look
with a prejudicial eye. [Obs.] --Holyday.

Forumosa Definition

Prejudicial \Prej`u*di"cial\
1. Of an opinion different to my own.

I think it’s time for me to get off t’internet for a while, folks.

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Illary,

Don’t despair. Like I said many people would agree with you. In fact, I think if it came to a vote on who was right or wrong, I’d lose. I still think I’m right though.

It’s this statement that gets me more than anything else:

I just don’t get it. I freely admit to having had a hangover at work and being able to teach perfectly effectively. I’ve taught with colds, flu’s, broken bones, debilitating lymes disease, you name it. You teach for 20 years and eventually you are going to run the gamut. These problems never once affected my ability to deliver good classes.

I’m not saying it as a point of pride; I’m saying it because I think it is totally irrelevant to job performance. Mind you I don’t mind that pilots are not allowed to have had a drink 24hrs prior to flying. People in life face a myriad of stresses that are going to potentially influence job performance. What’s important is job performance.

Your stance is like a political position; I feel mine is more a ‘that’s life’ one.

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Fox, I can see where you’re coming from. I partially agree with you in theory, but not as a matter of practice.

You’re saying that if you can come in and do your job up to standard then your lifestyle isn’t really relative. What does it matter to Johnny learning ABC’s that you slept with some random femme the night before and drank yourself stupid if you can pull your act together when you step into the classroom?

Now, assuming that you can pull your act together 100% of the time, that’s a fair argument. But how many teachers can come in with a hangover and maintain a high standard of teaching? In general, coming in to work in any business partially drunk or hung-over is not a good thing.

Take away the substance abuse and your point is stronger. What does it matter how many girls you’re boinking? As far as your teaching is concerned, you’re right, it doesn’t really matter. Well, as long as it isn’t the local teaching staff, adult students, or parents of students. That can cause problems.

Taking away substance abuse to the point that it affects work and sexual promiscuity where it affects the work environment, I would almost agree with your position.

But then, isn’t that exactly what the stereotype is? That foreign teachers are sleaze who would drink or smoke pot and then come into work influenced by the night before? And that they’re out to hump any girl with white guy fever without regard to professional ethics?

Sure, you can drink responsibly and party on without affecting the work environment, but then, people at work wouldn’t be starting rumors about that kind of person. So, in theory, you’re mostly right, but in reality the kind of foreigner we’re really talking about is bad for the industry and bad for the expat community.

The rest of my disagreement lies in the belief that teachers, no matter what subject, are given custodianship of children and have responsibility to their students. Teachers pass on their attitudes and beliefs, and a teacher whose morals are not in line with the local community has the potential to influence the morals of students in a negative way. Parents have a stake in providing their students with teachers whose morals are, at the least, not in conflict with their ideal values. So, if a teacher is known to get drunk and sleep around, parents have a right to be concerned.

Now, this does not apply to the adult classroom, so in a way-- if we’re not talking about someone who’s irresponsible, you’re right.

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[quote=“Fox”]
It’s this statement that gets me more than anything else:

I just don’t get it. I freely admit to having had a hangover at work and being able to teach perfectly effectively. I’ve taught with colds, flu’s, broken bones, debilitating lymes disease, you name it. You teach for 20 years and eventually you are going to run the gamut. These problems never once affected my ability to deliver good classes.

Your stance is like a political position; I feel mine is more a ‘that’s life’ one.[/quote]

Fox, what if you taught with a hangover 3 times a week, evey week? What if you missed the odd class through booze? What if you stayed up all night and then went to teach? Would that make you able to teach effectively? I know MANY people in Taiwan who do those things regularly.

Also…How do you judge you taught effectively when hungover? Did you get feedback from the students?

BTW, if you turned up at a school in the UK smelling of booze you’d be sacked, double sacked, and then sacked once more for good measure. I kid you not. It would follow you around, and would come to light at subsequent interviews for a very long time to come.
Teaching with a broken bone, is ok. Teaching with a communicable infection is less wonderful, but being hungover is irresponsible.

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Call me any names you want, I’d never change what I do or how I’m viewed to be stuck in a cubicle from 9am -7pm every day. FUCK THAT. The insults simply become compliments.

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Then you are not meeting the standard I set out and your job performance is suffering so my point is still valid.

Why does one have to be smelling of booze to be hungover?

[quote]But then, isn’t that exactly what the stereotype is? That foreign teachers are sleaze who would drink or smoke pot and then come into work influenced by the night before? And that they’re out to hump any girl with white guy fever without regard to professional ethics?
[/quote]

That’s exactly my point. It is just a sterotype. It is fed by prejudice and ignorance. Like many stereotypes there is some truth to them, “Like birds are small creatures that live in nests and fly.” You can believe that if you like and continue to feed the stereotype if you want, but it is pure ignorance of reality, even the reality of the person who does have a drink 'till 2am goes to sleep and wakes up feeling seedy.

[quote]I know MANY people in Taiwan who do those things regularly.
[/quote] Would you have included yourself in that list. Just curious.

I guess Tom, you’ve never taught with a hangover or a cold. :unamused:

Keep trying.

Like I said not eveyone is going to agree with me. I’m a fairly successful teacher, Tom. I have high standards. I’m not going to pretend I’m the best teacher ever. I’m as flawed as anybody, but I’m professional. I try not to use my ingrained prejudice to judge others. I’m not devoid of these prejudices either. I see things stereotypically too. We all know that all Englishmen have a flair for hyperbole juxtaposed the understatement. I like it but it’s for fun not for argument. Well, it could be I guess but my recall of Faulty Towers was that Bazil didn’t win all that often.

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The only reason I’ve ever taught hungover was because Happy Hours are during the week. I still kicked ass that day.

The only ferener I’ve known that meets the “beer drunkard” description was well liked by management and the principal.

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[quote=“R. Daneel Olivaw”]
Sure, you can drink responsibly and party on without affecting the work environment, but then, people at work wouldn’t be starting rumors about that kind of person.[/quote]
Not exactly…

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[quote=“naijeru”][quote=“R. Daneel Olivaw”]
Sure, you can drink responsibly and party on without affecting the work environment, but then, people at work wouldn’t be starting rumors about that kind of person.[/quote]
Not exactly…[/quote]
I know what you mean. It’s the appearance that counts more than the reality. But if there weren’t those who exemplified the stereotype, would there be half as many rumors about foreigners who are professional?

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That’s fine. Just make sure that you’re not influencing young minds with such an attitude and lifestyle.

To me, an adult is a person who shows maturity, responsibility, and intelligence. Unfortunately, not all “teachers” who come to Taiwan to teach English have reached adulthood yet.

Some never do.

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[quote]alazaskan1 wrote:
Call me any names you want, I’d never change what I do or how I’m viewed to be stuck in a cubicle from 9am -7pm every day. FUCK THAT. The insults simply become compliments.

That’s fine. Just make sure that you’re not influencing young minds with such an attitude and lifestyle. [/quote]

Surely there is nothing wrong with advocating teaching hours and saying you prefer the classroom environment to an office. How could young minds possibly suffer from that message?