Enrolling Older Foreign Children in Local Schools

Taiwan Parenting
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This topic has been under discussion a number of times, so I thought as we are in the process of doing this, I would post my first-hand experience. I’d like to make it clear that I’m talking about children older than kindergarten age, who don’t speak any Mandarin and who have little or no experience of Chinese culture, enrolling in ordinary public schools in Taiwan.

My son has just turned eight and should be in grade 3 in the Taiwanese system. Foreign children who start at around kindergarten age should not experience any problems with picking up the language and becoming literate.

There are already a number of threads discussing the pros and cons of enrolling foreign children in local schools, and some threads discussing the different options available to parents:

http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?f=96&t=97045&hilit=local+schools Registering for a local school

http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?f=96&t=99233&hilit=local+schools Foreign children at local schools?

http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?f=96&t=91584&hilit=local+schools Please give me your advice on my kids’ education in Taiwan

http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?f=96&t=89121&hilit=foreign+children+locals+schools#p1162156 Teasing mixed/Caucasian kids in local schools

http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=89693&hilit=foreign+children+local+schools&start=60 Requesting feedback on moving to Taiwan

The Taipei Dept. of Education does not give a lot of information on the subject:

http://english.doe.taipei.gov.tw/ct.asp?xitem=144888&CtNode=15791&mp=104002 and as far as I can tell the Ministry of Education is silent on the issue.

My experience has been as follows: we visited several schools in October last year, ranging from the international Taipei European School to a small, public mountain school. We also visited a large public elementary and a large private elementary. Our goals were to find somewhere that our son would have a pleasant environment, away from any bustle or air pollution; that the language of instruction would be Mandarin (so that he could learn Mandarin) and that the school would be welcoming and supportive, despite the fact that clearly a non-Chinese speaking child would cause some headaches for them.

Our experience of the international school overwhelmingly indicated that our son would not learn Mandarin in this environment. The children receive only two hours of Mandarin lessons a week and the language of instruction is English, French or German depending on the child’s nationality. The large private school had lessons in English in the morning and Mandarin in the afternoon, and we thought this probably wasn’t enough immersion. With both of the private schools we also felt as that as a family we could be confining ourselves to a slightly isolated circle of society, if that makes any sense.

The large public elementary school was Xinsheng in Da’an. This is one of several schools with specially provided programmes for foreign children who don’t speak Mandarin. While this school appeared good in many ways, it is, like most school in Taiwan, very big. Primary schools in the UK rarely exceed 200 pupils, and we thought that the move to a much larger school than he was used to was a needless additional potential difficulty for our son. It’s also on a busy main road. They were welcoming and told us that they could provide the necessary support.

The school we finally decided upon was a small mountain school in Beitou. This was in a very fresh, green environment and was very small and cosy. At the time that we spoke to them they said they had a place for our son, but we sensed some reluctance on their part to take him. When my husband returned to Taiwan in May he visited the school and they said they no longer had any space. I don’t understand Taiwanese culture enough to be sure what happened here, and our experience was different from that of another poster whose daughter had been very happy there, but in short we decided not to force the issue by living within their catchment area (which would have obliged them to take our son).

Since we arrived in Taipei just over a week ago I’ve visited three other schools. They are Gongguan Elementary, Yifang Elementary, and another one close by whose name I can’t remember (the last two are in Beitou). The last school’s outdoor recreation area was right next to a busy main road, so I didn’t bother going in to speak to anyone. The reason I’d gone to look at the school was because I’d been advised to by a teacher at Yifang. She said they didn’t get foreign children at that school and didn’t have a programme of support set up, whereas the other school did. Yifang is in a very nice location, quite high up and surrounded by trees.

At Gongguan we were welcomed with open arms (this does have something to do with falling enrolment, I think!). Yes, they had a few other foreign children (my son sits next to another English speaker); yes, they could provide Mandarin support; yes, the school is set on a quiet road and the sports area is at the foot of a mountain. The school is very small too. Classes have only 20 students, (though I think this isn’t uncommon) and there are only two classes per grade. The teachers are incredibly friendly and welcoming, and so are the parents. The Director was very keen for my son to start on the first day of the year so that he was there when the children were forming friendships, so my son had his first day at school today!

The Director requires our ARCs, which are shortly to arrive, but was happy for him to start classes straightaway. They also need a copy of his passport. I enquired about household registration but they said it isn’t required because this school can take students from anywhere in Taipei, as seems to be the case with these very small ‘mountain’ schools. With other schools this may not be the case.

I hope this post useful to someone and if anyone would like to pm me for more information please feel free to do so.

I’d like to thank all those posters who have helped us enormously during this lengthy and stressful process.

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Well, it’s been a week and it’s been really tough going. Anything the other children do in class is too difficult for my son because of the Chinese language element and the teacher seems to have given up on giving him anything at all. I’ve explained to the teacher that he can do some of the Maths because he told me that the boy next to him was doing some Maths that he thought was really easy, but no Maths has happened. (It’s hard to tell whether the teacher has offered and he’s refused but it seems that nothing has been offered since the first couple of days.)

So he’s been spending the long days just drawing and writing the occasional angry letter about how much he hates school.

Chinese lessons were promised but none have been forthcoming so far, and my son is so bored he’s even asking for them himself! It seems there’s very little playtime in the Taiwanese system, so he has very little opportunity to socialise with the other children. There’s a soccer team practice every morning but I really struggle to get him to school on time as it is (or in fact, at all). Apparently there’s also one on Saturday afternoons, so I’m going to try taking him along to that this weekend.

It seems the only thing he participates in is lunchtime (he likes the food at least!) and English lessons which are of course ridiculously easy.

There’s also the problem of lack of communication. I can’t really read much of anything that gets sent home. Yesterday I noticed all the other children had brought a recorder to school but of course my son hadn’t. He said that they all had a lesson with their recorders but he couldn’t join in because he didn’t have one and there wasn’t a spare. I spoke to the teacher and she said she’ll write a list of everything he needs for school, so maybe things will get better. She did helpfully translate a little of one of the notes to show me that there’s an open evening at the school this Friday.

I’m going to see if my son has had any Chinese support classes today and if not I’ll go and speak to the teacher again. i’m anxious that at least he’ll get something to do and some sense that things will get better. I got him some Maths books to work on in class today. When I dropped him off I stayed and watched what he did. He sat down at his desk, sadly took out his books and started doing some sums, just looking really cut off from everything. :frowning:

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How long are you planning to stay in Taiwan? I noticed you said you are waiting for your ARC’s.

Isn’t another option enrolling him in a school teaching in English and sending him for private mandarin lessons?

Even if they offer Mandarin support, he would always be behind in the language, as well as missing out on the lessons now.

Don’t get me wrong. I am not critical of your approach. Just an idea to consider.

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[quote=“Petrichor”]Well, it’s been a week and it’s been really tough going. Anything the other children do in class is too difficult for my son because of the Chinese language element and the teacher seems to have given up on giving him anything at all. I’ve explained to the teacher that he can do some of the Maths because he told me that the boy next to him was doing some Maths that he thought was really easy, but no Maths has happened. (It’s hard to tell whether the teacher has offered and he’s refused but it seems that nothing has been offered since the first couple of days.)

So he’s been spending the long days just drawing and writing the occasional angry letter about how much he hates school.

Chinese lessons were promised but none have been forthcoming so far, and my son is so bored he’s even asking for them himself! It seems there’s very little playtime in the Taiwanese system, so he has very little opportunity to socialise with the other children. There’s a soccer team practice every morning but I really struggle to get him to school on time as it is (or in fact, at all). Apparently there’s also one on Saturday afternoons, so I’m going to try taking him along to that this weekend.

It seems the only thing he participates in is lunchtime (he likes the food at least!) and English lessons which are of course ridiculously easy.

There’s also the problem of lack of communication. I can’t really read much of anything that gets sent home. Yesterday I noticed all the other children had brought a recorder to school but of course my son hadn’t. He said that they all had a lesson with their recorders but he couldn’t join in because he didn’t have one and there wasn’t a spare. I spoke to the teacher and she said she’ll write a list of everything he needs for school, so maybe things will get better. She did helpfully translate a little of one of the notes to show me that there’s an open evening at the school this Friday.

I’m going to see if my son has had any Chinese support classes today and if not I’ll go and speak to the teacher again. I’m anxious that at least he’ll get something to do and some sense that things will get better. I got him some Maths books to work on in class today. When I dropped him off I stayed and watched what he did. He sat down at his desk, sadly took out his books and started doing some sums, just looking really cut off from everything. :frowning:[/quote]

Hi Petrichor,

Personally, I think 3rd grade is fine. When I was learning my 2nd language, it was the same and I was already in junior high so it was worse. I pretty much understood nothing being said in class and I even had F initially as I have no idea what’s going on in classes that require some language skills. I would suggest you to start your son with Taiwan’s phonic system. ㄅㄆㄇㄈ bo, po, mo fo, etc. This is the basic building block which will enable your son to at least to be on his way to eventually “read” on his own. I don’t remember when Taiwan’s elementary school system cuts off the phonics in textbooks but they last a while, until the children master enough characters to be able to use characters only without the aid of phonics system. In the first year or 2, it’ll be most difficult, keep at it, it is going to be a long and arduous struggle as Taiwan’s system might seem arduous and harsh, with longer school day and more homework. He is at least young enough to be able to learn the tonal system without much issue. I would also suggest your son to start drawing and using body language to communicate as I did. Another thing he should consider is an English<->Chinese dictionary. This way, he can look up words in English and point out the Chinese translation to his target audience to try to communicate words that cannot be easily drawn or express in body language.

That’s how I communicated initially, when i didn’t speak the language but had to communicate somehow. Drawing, gesturing, and using dictionary can go a long way. Believe me, I went through it and that experience allowed me to learn my 3rd and 4th language with more ease.

I was helping an ABC kid in first grade early this year. He can speak Chinese already and had 1.5 year of Chinese instruction from Chinese school in America. However, he still does not know as many Chinese character as his classmate. He struggled with reading comprehension problems as he relied on bo po mo fo too much and it was a slow process. I had to read the story to him, then he can answer the question himself as questions had less character + bo po mo fo for him to decipher and answer the questions.

Good luck, it’ll take time but your son can do it.

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I know I am going to get in trouble for this but…

Enrolling an English speaking child in a Taiwanese elementary school for grade 3, with no Chinese skills at all, seems cruel. One of my co-workers says it is almost child abuse. The students in your son’s class are fairly fluent in Chinese and already know 1000+ characters. Just throwing him in there seems like the worst thing to do to a child. I can almost understand his teacher giving up on him because he shouldn’t be there. Starting a child in grade 1… okay. Grade 3? :loco:I’ve seen too many miserable foreign kids in classes they shouldn’t be in. They usually end up hating their school/classmates/parents, etc. It would be a cold day in hell before I would subject my child to something like that.

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I personally would look further into Xinsheng Elementary School if it provides extra support for foreign students learning Chinese. Being near a major road is not that big of a deal, in my opinion. I think how much your child learns and is helped with his Chinese should be the most important factor.

I should note that I’ve never been to either Xinsheng or Gongguan Elementary Schools, so take this advice with that in mind.

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Ugh, I feel for you and your son. It makes my heart hurt to think of him sitting there feeling cut off from school and friends. My son is about the same age, and I can imagine what his reaction would be. That’s a tough situation.

I have been to Gongguan Elementary before and it’s a lovely campus, but it’s small, so I’m not sure they have the ability to give your son what he needs to succeed. There was an American family in our neighborhood who sent their 9-year-old daughter to XinSheng Elementary last year and seemed to have a very good experience (and she had very little previous Chinese exposure), so that might be a thought.

We considered putting our older son in the local school system as well, and if we could have started him earlier, we probably would have done that. However, we just felt he would struggle too much, and in the end, his mental/emotional health and adjustment was more important to us than perfect fluency in Mandarin. He does get an hour a day of instruction in Mandarin and has lots of Taiwanese friends from whom he has picked up a bit of Chinese. We hope to give him more exposure through summer tutoring in the future.

Our younger son, however, has already been in Chinese preschool for a year, and if all goes well, we plan on keeping him in Chinese-language schooling for a few years before moving him over to English schooling. His personality is totally different from our older son, though–he’s very laid-back, whereas our older son is more sensitive and gets stressed out easily–so we think he’ll adapt well.

Best of luck to you! These are hard choices.

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Many thanks for all of your responses. To answer some questions- we intend to stay in Taiwan for 5 or 6 years. It was the school who wanted to start my son in grade 3, I wanted him to go into grade 2, but they pointed out that his lack of Chinese was an equally limiting factor in either grade. As it is the Maths they’re doing seems to be at a lower level than the UK.

I think I’ve given the impression with my post that my main concern is my son’s Chinese literacy acquisition. I don’t have high expectations of this either short or long term. I was more worried that he had been given nothing at all to do. He’s got a busy mind and he was getting extremely bored, as I’m sure anyone would who had nothing to do but draw for 8 hours. We will be arranging some more help with Chinese outside of class.

I’m aware that what we’re doing is potentially harmful, and I’m posting to give a first hand account so others can maybe use our experience to help them make decisions about their children’s education. We did agonize over this and are perfectly prepared to throw in the towel if it’s clearly hurting my son.

Amoymama, thanks, yes, we haven’t yet discounted Xinsheng.

My son had a better day today. He had a Chinese lesson, did the Maths I’d given him and could use the library. He was much happier when I picked him up. They also had plums at lunch!

Thinking long term, I used to teach the parents of children who’d been through this experience and survived and flourished. Plus, other parents at the school have said their children coped and learned quickly. The parents at the school are incredibly supportive and encouraging and the teacher is doing her best I think. It’s still far too early to give up.

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[quote=“funkymonkey”]I know I am going to get in trouble for this but…

Enrolling an English speaking child in a Taiwanese elementary school for grade 3, with no Chinese skills at all, seems cruel. One of my co-workers says it is almost child abuse. The students in your son’s class are fairly fluent in Chinese and already know 1000+ characters. Just throwing him in there seems like the worst thing to do to a child. I can almost understand his teacher giving up on him because he shouldn’t be there. Starting a child in grade 1… okay. Grade 3? :loco:I’ve seen too many miserable foreign kids in classes they shouldn’t be in. They usually end up hating their school/classmates/parents, etc. It would be a cold day in hell before I would subject my child to something like that.[/quote]

I think it depends on expectations from all the parties involved.
If the parents (in particular) and the teachers make it clear that they expect the child to do his best and to pretty much keep up in subjects that have nothing to do with language (math, for example – assuming no previous issues with math, and that the parent has some wherewithal to help if needed), but that the focus for the first year would be on learning to speak and understand Chinese from friends and classmates and just experiencing something new, it would be okay.

The kids in that class are not “fairly fluent”, they are native speakers. But Taiwanese schools have a long tradition of classmates helping each other (I end up translating such heartwarming stories for the GIO all the time :smiley: ) and as long as the admin and teachers are on the parent’s side on this one, I think it would be okay. The potential benefit – near-native, if not native-level fluency in spoken Mandarin, and considerable facility in written Mandarin – is just too appealing to let slide by.

It might help to set up some sort of “rating” thing at home, so that at the end of each day or each week, the child completes some sort of assessment (intended to show him progress, not for any other reason). Maybe he could color in part of a graph or thermometer to show how much he understood of what his classmates said that day, and another for how much he understood his teachers. That would also help him to realize what people are harder to understand, and to come up with strategies, in conjunction with the family, to help him cope better with the linguistic deficit at the beginning.

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Ironlady has some great ideas there.

My own son is 8 years old and in second grade in a local school here. I put him in first grade last year at my own choice because he had very, very little Chinese ability. It was a tough start, though he had a good teacher. Even with a good teacher, however, I had to illustrate for her the concept that he couldn’t comprehend what he (seemingly) could read. She gave him a reading test in a grade level book–a highly illustrated book with both characters and phonetic spelling. My son could read the bo po mo fo fluently, and is smart enough, with good enough general reading skills, that he was able to deduce the plot from the illustrations. He had no idea what he was reading, or what any one character meant.

His teacher argued with me that my son DID understand what he read–he got all her questions right and sounded like he had perfect Mandarin! I wrote a few words and sentences for her in English, things like “aorta,” and asked her to read them. She could read the word, but then could not tell me what it meant! Imagine! Then I asked her to copy out a page from a different children’s book–just characters and bo po mo fo. He read flawlessly again–but had no idea what he was saying. Finally, she got it. After that, she was a much better teacher for him, as he recognized that he needed comprehension, not just instruction.

We also have a tutor now to help with homework, and to give him more practice communicating in Mandarin. The homework thing wasn’t as important to me. The second grade work is very easy for him, but doing it in Mandarin is a challenge, and the teacher just NEEDS to see it completed. She can’t help herself.

For me, my son’s language skills are the important focus here. One day, we’ll be back in the States, and I’ll try to keep him up on his skills there if I can, but this time here is to give him his start, his base, and his understanding of the culture here, too. In the meantime, he still reads loads of English books–at my instance and his pleasure–and his teacher has agreed to allow him to report on some books he’s read in English, so long as he reports in Mandarin. This seems like a fair system to me that doesn’t tax him too much, and still rewards reading, in any language.

But the real teachers are his classmates! Give it a couple months to work the bumps out. After all, the first few weeks are really just figuring out how the system works here. I’m sure your son will impress you greatly in no time; mine brings me more pride and more joy each day!

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Thanks for your thoughts ironlady. I think a progress chart is a good idea.

I’m going to ask around about a private Chinese tutor for s/thing like bo po mo fo, if only to give my son more confidence than anything else.

Re-reading my reply I can see it seems a little terse. I was writing on my tablet so trying to say as much in as little detail as I could. I hope I haven’t given the impression that I’m offended. I do truly appreciate everyone’s thoughts on this matter.

Funkymonkey, can I ask you to say more about your experiences in this area - what kind of institute to you teach at, for instance?

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[quote=“ironlady”]I think it depends on expectations from all the parties involved…

It might help to set up some sort of “rating” thing at home, so that at the end of each day or each week, the child completes some sort of assessment (intended to show him progress, not for any other reason). Maybe he could color in part of a graph or thermometer to show how much he understood of what his classmates said that day, and another for how much he understood his teachers…[/quote]

That’s a great idea! Of course, the teachers and classmates will learn to simplify their speech when talking to him.

This really is as far away from the “Maximum Comprehensible Input” as you can get, but if it works, you have solved a major problem.

Just remember, this isn’t Finland where kids don’t have to pick up a pen until they’re 7 or so. If your kid added into the middle of kindergarten year, he’d be playin’ catch up because he couldn’t write BoPoMoFo. And Chinese is as tough as it gets. I’ve got a girl that just finished 3rd grade. I can just imagine what your kid is hearing right now.

“Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah OK blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah Oh my gah! blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah Bye Bye!”

My heart goes out to you.

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[quote=“housecat”]Ironlady has some great ideas there.

My own son is 8 years old and in second grade in a local school here. I put him in first grade last year at my own choice because he had very, very little Chinese ability. It was a tough start, though he had a good teacher. Even with a good teacher, however, I had to illustrate for her the concept that he couldn’t comprehend what he (seemingly) could read. She gave him a reading test in a grade level book–a highly illustrated book with both characters and phonetic spelling. My son could read the bo po mo fo fluently, and is smart enough, with good enough general reading skills, that he was able to deduce the plot from the illustrations. He had no idea what he was reading, or what any one character meant.

His teacher argued with me that my son DID understand what he read–he got all her questions right and sounded like he had perfect Mandarin! I wrote a few words and sentences for her in English, things like “aorta,” and asked her to read them. She could read the word, but then could not tell me what it meant! Imagine! Then I asked her to copy out a page from a different children’s book–just characters and bo po mo fo. He read flawlessly again–but had no idea what he was saying. Finally, she got it. After that, she was a much better teacher for him, as he recognized that he needed comprehension, not just instruction.

We also have a tutor now to help with homework, and to give him more practice communicating in Mandarin. The homework thing wasn’t as important to me. The second grade work is very easy for him, but doing it in Mandarin is a challenge, and the teacher just NEEDS to see it completed. She can’t help herself.

For me, my son’s language skills are the important focus here. One day, we’ll be back in the States, and I’ll try to keep him up on his skills there if I can, but this time here is to give him his start, his base, and his understanding of the culture here, too. In the meantime, he still reads loads of English books–at my instance and his pleasure–and his teacher has agreed to allow him to report on some books he’s read in English, so long as he reports in Mandarin. This seems like a fair system to me that doesn’t tax him too much, and still rewards reading, in any language.

But the real teachers are his classmates! Give it a couple months to work the bumps out. After all, the first few weeks are really just figuring out how the system works here. I’m sure your son will impress you greatly in no time; mine brings me more pride and more joy each day![/quote]

Thanks Housecat. It’s really good to read other people’s experiences. I was surprised that the school wanted to put my son in third grade, but I think it was largely because the teacher speaks some English, and they figured he’d sink or swim whatever grade he was in. We’ll see. I’m definitely going to get more help outside of school. The problem is that I don’t want it all to be ‘Mandarin, Mandarin, Mandarin’. The kid needs some down time too! But then I also want to minimise his feelings of being different and inadequate. It’s hard to strike a balance.

I agree that the best teachers he’ll have will be his friends. Luckily the parents at the school are 100% supportive and friendly, to the extent that they’ve told their children to look after my son, especially where their children have been through a similar experience. They get so little time to play, though! I’m taking my son to soccer practice on Saturday to help him make friends.

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He really needs to improve his Mandarin as quickly as possible, that’s the reality. Chinese is a much bigger challenge than most languages, learning to speak and the grammer is fairly easy, it’s the reading and writing that’s the challenge. I think you need to get him a tutor ASAP to help him with his Mandarin and also explain homework and requests. The school system here emphasises writing in a big way. It’s different for ABC kids who have native speaking Chinese parents and who understand the system here and can help with the homework and dealing with notes from school. You can’t leave it up to the chance that the teachers, other kids and parents will help him. They are not used to dealing with immigrants here, there are almost no structures to help kids with non-Taiwanese parents. This also goes across the whole society in Taiwan, they promise things like Chinese classes and extra help as soon as you start, but they generally won’t deliver it. You can see that happening already. Grade 3 Chinese is not too complex so he has a chance to catch up and reduce stress later but he’d better get started into it in a big way right away before things speed up later on.

I’m not being critical for the sake of it but surely he should have been enrolled in some Chinese classes previously so he has a basis for communication? This way of doing things is akin to throwing somebody in a river and asking them to learn to swim.

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We did try to get him some classes in the UK but it was nigh on impossible where we lived. Very few Chinese people around and certainly no teachers. We even tried Skype lessons but it was really stressful for him. Learning to speak another language as a child under ten isn’t a conscious process. He’s learned some French at school for example, but I’m quite sure it wouldn’t have been any help to him if he’d been put straight into a French-speaking environment.

Thanks for your insight into Taiwanese culture and what we can expect.

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[quote=“Petrichor”]Thanks Housecat. It’s really good to read other people’s experiences. I was surprised that the school wanted to put my son in third grade, but I think it was largely because the teacher speaks some English, and they figured he’d sink or swim whatever grade he was in. We’ll see. I’m definitely going to get more help outside of school. The problem is that I don’t want it all to be ‘Mandarin, Mandarin, Mandarin’. The kid needs some down time too! But then I also want to minimise his feelings of being different and inadequate. It’s hard to strike a balance.

I agree that the best teachers he’ll have will be his friends. Luckily the parents at the school are 100% supportive and friendly, to the extent that they’ve told their children to look after my son, especially where their children have been through a similar experience. They get so little time to play, though! I’m taking my son to soccer practice on Saturday to help him make friends.[/quote]

You’re welcome! I should mention that the hardest part of this set up now is that my son is so much more mature than his classmates. That may be one reason that the school wants your son in third grade. In fact, when we first moved back here, I was teaching in a private school where they wanted to put my son up a grade because he is so much more mature than the local kids. When I switched him to public school, they had the same concerns. My son can handle this okay, I feel. He gets a kick out of being the best looking big brother in the class (but denies it!), and still has fun playing kid games, and LOVES the half day school days.

But the reading he does is also a big and important factor in his coping. He reads pretty advanced English books now, and the characters are more mature and deal with more western issues (as these are English books, of course). This is helpful to him emotionally as well as academically. He still identifies himself as American (my son is American and Taiwanese), or at least much more American than Chinese, and even though he can now understand and speak a great deal of Mandarin, he’s reluctant to do so if I’m with him. He expects ME to do it (though his language skills are fast outpacing mine!), or would just rather avoid the situation. This is a process that can take some time.

Oh, and also, I am a teacher at the school where he’s studying, so problems that might come up are much easier for us to deal with.

Lots of luck to you and your son. I’m in the middle of the island, but if we’re ever near, we should maybe let them meet!

17

I’ve taught at three elementary schools here in Chiayi and have personally witnessed numerous foreign children from grades one to six struggle in their classes. My best friend (I will ask him to join forumosa and write about his experiences) has two children in a local school, grades one and three. His eldest daughter went to school in Canada until grade one and then came back to Taiwan. His stories about his eldest daughter are heartbreaking. She isn’t the same, happy girl she used to be. The guilt he feels is enormous. He always says that he knew he shouldn’t have put her in to school here at such a late stage, but there aren’t any international schools in Chiayi. He and his family will move back to Canada soon because he doesn’t want to continue torturing her (his words, not mine). The teachers here have no idea how to help foreign children and some of them don’t even want to. School is meant to be enjoyable. Who wants their child to simply “cope”? Does your son really want to be behind all the other students for the next five years? What is the point?

18

Well, I’m sure it would be possible to communicate with the teacher(s) and think about ways to let them and others offer appropriate support without making their jobs much more difficult than they are now. I’ll be happy to go out for tea with her and Petrichor and talk about how to support a second-language learner in an immersion environment.

And children acquire language very rapidly, as long as they are not being pressured to do it in a super-academic way. If the school can be persuaded that this boy needs to have spoken Mandarin before pressure is put on him to achieve in writing, things should go fine. He can still participate in reading and writing classes, but could be given scaffolding on the texts (bo po mo fo, mp3 files he can listen to and read along with, etc.) We have found, teaching foreign children (slightly older – ages 11-18) that as long as they really know the spoken language they are being asked to read, characters are not much of a problem to read. Writing would take longer, but again, as long as the expectations are made clear to both the school and the child – as in “this is going to take time and that’s okay” – I wouldn’t look for disaster until it happens.

Most teachers are willing to help, if they know what would help. And parental expectations are very important, too. Life is very long. It really doesn’t matter if a kid graduates at age 17 or age 18 or age 16, does it?

19

You don’t want to be behind all through school life either…having to ask for special dispensations and treatment constantly will be a mighty pain. That’s why I suggest going at the language in a big way right now. The throw them in the deep end can work fairly well in a European language context, but Chinese really is different. It has been estimated it takes 5 times more time to learn reading and writing Chinese compared to picking up a European language.

20

The humand mind came up with all languages on Earth and can learn one langage as well as any other, especially when the human is still young. A related language with similar grammar or syntax rules may be easier to learn for older students–and it may simply be confusing trying to keep things straight. Reading and writing characters is no more difficult than reading and writing phonetic languages. We read whole words; we don’t sound out each phoneme. This means that we read graphically–just not “picture words.”

Really, while Mandarin has been (and still is) a bigger challenge to me than Spanish, my son has had no particular difficulty leaning Mandarin, listening, speaking, reading, or writing. And if we lived in Mexico or Spain, he’d quickly be more fluent in Spanish than I am (was), too.

It’s the advantage of a young agile brain and quick and easy myolination. The trick is to communicate more and to think less. Grown up humans have a harder time with languages because we’re too caught up with thinking about what we’re trying to say, instead of just letting communication happen.