Entry-level jobs for a laowai with near-native Mandarin skills

Work Working in Taiwan
1

I graduated last spring with a BA in Chinese and a BA in I.R. I visited Taiwan about two weeks ago and have decided that I can’t go back to the 大陆 after experiencing Taiwan. I’ve been looking for work, but all I’ve found are technical writing positions, anything else out there that’s not ESL? I’m fluent in Mandarin, reading/writing/speaking/listening and I have no accent. I’m a good writer/editor, I’m good with people (especially Chinese), and I’m studying to get some IT certs. Unfortunately, aside from a year teaching in Korea, I have no experience.

Pray tell, o wise members of the Forumosa community, is there anything else out there?

EDIT: Woops, almost forgot to add, could I move to Taiwan and realistically expect to find a non-ESL job?

2

No.

Your value lies only in your English nativeness. No one cares how good your Mandarin is. The island is full of people who are truly native speakers of Mandarin who have degrees in useful things. You have a degree in Chinese. As another person with a degree in Chinese, I can tell you that is rarely a really useful thing to have a degree in, particularly a bachelor’s.

Sticky balls and EFL, or long hours and very low pay in a trading company somewhere, most likely.

3

[quote=“ironlady”]No.

Your value lies only in your English nativeness. No one cares how good your Mandarin is. The island is full of people who are truly native speakers of Mandarin who have degrees in useful things. You have a degree in Chinese. As another person with a degree in Chinese, I can tell you that is rarely a really useful thing to have a degree in, particularly a bachelor’s.

Sticky balls and EFL, or long hours and very low pay in a trading company somewhere, most likely.[/quote]

Double that.

You realize, of course, that you haven’t even defined what kind of job you’re seeking?
I mean would you go on a Living in California forum and post the question “Any entry-level jobs?”.
Or, were you actually looking for a job where you got paid to “speak Mandarin”, since that’s the only skill set you’re admitting to.
As the Lady said, no.
They already got about 26 million people here who do that.
Were you thinking about some kind of Translation gig?
That’s something else entirely, and, as the previous poster can attest, a very competitive and not particularly well-paid field.
Even if you DO end up with “long hours and very low pay in a trading company somewhere”, you still aren’t going to get hired to “speak Mandarin”, it’ll probably be some kind of Marketing position.

Sorry, I don’t mean to be a dick, but, you know, think about it for a second.

ETA: You may also want to consider dialing down the cutesiness in your communications.
If your Mandarin is so good, I’m sure you know the English for “the 大陆”.
And, you know, “laowai”??? Really?

4

Tip: Use google to search this site for the keywords you want. ‘Formosa.com’ & ‘Keyword’.

5

What did you like about Taiwan over China?

6

I’m not so negative as the other posters here. Language is a tool to do something else. The key question is, what is that something else? Until you develop that something else, you face the old chicken or egg issue of how to get experience or a skill, not having that skill.

I was a Chinese major, but now I do Finance. I got my first job answering an ad in the newspaper for a salesperson that could speak English (but they weren’t looking for a foreigner). My Chinese got me through the exam and the interview. It was hard yards and low pay for the next 2 years, but I learned a metric shit-tonne that I leveraged into other jobs that taught me more, paid me a little more, but got me enough experience to trick Acme Finance Academy into accepting me, which got me a job at Widgets International two years later.

Keep an open mind about slaving away at those trading or export sales jobs. They suck, but you can learn.

7

[quote=“Elegua”]I’m not so negative as the other posters here. Language is a tool to do something else. The key question is, what is that something else? Until you develop that something else, you face the old chicken or egg issue of how to get experience or a skill, not having that skill.

I was a Chinese major, but now I do Finance. I got my first job answering an ad in the newspaper for a salesperson that could speak English (but they weren’t looking for a foreigner). My Chinese got me through the exam and the interview. It was hard yards and low pay for the next 2 years, but I learned a metric shit-tonne that I leveraged into other jobs that taught me more, paid me a little more, but got me enough experience to trick Acme Finance Academy into accepting me, which got me a job at Widgets International two years later.

Keep an open mind about slaving away at those trading or export sales jobs. They suck, but you can learn.[/quote]

Legs, please don’t accuse IL and meself of being “negative” simply because the facts as we see them (which is what the OP was soliciting, neh?) might not be as promising as he/she was hoping for.

Considering that, between us, we have within spitting distance of a half-century’s professional experience in country, wouldn’t you consider our input valuable?

Not to mention the fact that you basically reiterated our position in your own post, except with a relatively happy ending tacked on the butt end.

8

OP you need 2 years certified experience to get non-EFL work unless you have a relevant qualification (eng. degree etc.) So while you could work as an editor you’d have to do it under the table.

9

OP – I just sent you a PM.

10

[quote=“the chief”][quote=“Elegua”]I’m not so negative as the other posters here. Language is a tool to do something else. The key question is, what is that something else? Until you develop that something else, you face the old chicken or egg issue of how to get experience or a skill, not having that skill.

I was a Chinese major, but now I do Finance. I got my first job answering an ad in the newspaper for a salesperson that could speak English (but they weren’t looking for a foreigner). My Chinese got me through the exam and the interview. It was hard yards and low pay for the next 2 years, but I learned a metric shit-tonne that I leveraged into other jobs that taught me more, paid me a little more, but got me enough experience to trick Acme Finance Academy into accepting me, which got me a job at Widgets International two years later.

Keep an open mind about slaving away at those trading or export sales jobs. They suck, but you can learn.[/quote]

Legs, please don’t accuse IL and meself of being “negative” simply because the facts as we see them (which is what the OP was soliciting, neh?) might not be as promising as he/she was hoping for.

Considering that, between us, we have within spitting distance of a half-century’s professional experience in country, wouldn’t you consider our input valuable?

Not to mention the fact that you basically reiterated our position in your own post, except with a relatively happy ending tacked on the butt end.[/quote]

Yes, well, yes…but of all people, Cheiffy, I would have expected you to know the importance of a happy ending.

11

[quote=“Elegua”][quote=“the chief”][quote=“Elegua”]I’m not so negative as the other posters here. Language is a tool to do something else. The key question is, what is that something else? Until you develop that something else, you face the old chicken or egg issue of how to get experience or a skill, not having that skill.

I was a Chinese major, but now I do Finance. I got my first job answering an ad in the newspaper for a salesperson that could speak English (but they weren’t looking for a foreigner). My Chinese got me through the exam and the interview. It was hard yards and low pay for the next 2 years, but I learned a metric shit-tonne that I leveraged into other jobs that taught me more, paid me a little more, but got me enough experience to trick Acme Finance Academy into accepting me, which got me a job at Widgets International two years later.

Keep an open mind about slaving away at those trading or export sales jobs. They suck, but you can learn.[/quote]

Legs, please don’t accuse IL and meself of being “negative” simply because the facts as we see them (which is what the OP was soliciting, neh?) might not be as promising as he/she was hoping for.

Considering that, between us, we have within spitting distance of a half-century’s professional experience in country, wouldn’t you consider our input valuable?

Not to mention the fact that you basically reiterated our position in your own post, except with a relatively happy ending tacked on the butt end.[/quote]

Yes, well, yes…but of all people, Cheiffy, I would have expected you to know the importance of a happy ending.[/quote]

Not since all the saunas shut down, brother.

There’s only that one left open, but every time I go Mr He and Toasty are there…

12

Hey all, thanks for the insightful responses. Looks like I’m going to need to find a job over in China or stay in my home country for a bit then.

Someone asked why I liked Taiwan over China. Mostly that food safety, air quality, and water quality seem much better. I also thought the government would be more even-handed and upright, and it probably is, but I ran into the same nasty and apathetic bureaucrats here (and no, it’s not like that everywhere).

13

That’s a bit like comparing the aroma of Satan’s armpit with his contents of his ringpiece.

I think, as someone mentioned earlier, it depends on what other skills you have. Fine: so you can communicate. Great. Most of the foreign professionals here have skills that the locals don’t have, such as being able to design a building that isn’t 1950 Soviet Chic or a mobile phone that isn’t an exact copy of last year’s model from Samsung. Unfortunately, local companies hate employees who are competent because it makes the boss look bad. You’ll be far happier, and more productive, if you have the sort of skills that allow you to set up a business in your home country (most likely as your primary market) and set up a branch office here for your residency.

14

Chinese proficiency is a skill that the US and other Anglophone countries want. Could you land a position in those places and use your Mandarin skills?

15

Even here in the US, you are competing with literally thousands of people who are native BILINGUAL speakers and who have other skills like an MBA or another advanced degree. The only place a haphazard (=non-native) level of Chinese is respected, for the most part, is government work (Federal, State or local). And as good as one feels about one’s Chinese when one has graduated with a BS or BA in Chinese, it’s likely to be far from where it will need to be to be viewed as a professional. (The OP’s China residence may have helped with this bit, I don’t know.)

As much as I have enjoyed my career, I would never recommend to anyone that they major solely in Chinese. It is becoming increasingly difficult to make a living based ONLY on language. Far better to gain other skills and take some time to get fluent while doing something else, maybe – but market yourself based on what you can do, not the Chinese you can speak.

16

[quote=“Jingdu”]Hey all, thanks for the insightful responses. Looks like I’m going to need to find a job over in China or stay in my home country for a bit then.

Someone asked why I liked Taiwan over China. Mostly that food safety, air quality, and water quality seem much better. I also thought the government would be more even-handed and upright, and it probably is, but I ran into the same nasty and apathetic bureaucrats here (and no, it’s not like that everywhere).[/quote]

You are not the same as the millions of native Chinese speakers here. For starters, your native language is English and you are culturally western. A lot of companies that work with western companies need someone who has the cultural and linguistic capacity to work with westerner companies well. You can do that. I haven’t met a Taiwanese person who can. I had a job doing this. It had its high points – trips to Mexico and the US, namely. Secondly, you have a white face I presume. A lot of Taiwanese companies like to use white faces to make them look international. I had a job doing this, too. Because of this, you are actually in a better position than Taiwanese people that grew up in America or ABC or whatever they are called in English. (I wouldn’t dare write any Chinese on this site, otherwise the likelihood of me being personally insulted is high.)

These are things you can get started with with zero experience outside of language. You’ll make about 40k NT /mo and from there you will progress.

IronLady is right; you may be surprised to find that your Chinese classes have not prepared you for life completely in Chinese. If you have a solid grounding, you’ll catch up quickly.

17

Even here in the US, you are competing with literally thousands of people who are native BILINGUAL speakers and who have other skills like an MBA or another advanced degree. [/quote]

But isn’t it true that although many Overseas Chinese are fluent in speaking Mandarin they have a very poor knowledge of the written language? It is only if their parents have enrolled them in extra Chinese lessons outside of school that they have picked up the written language. Perhaps there are opportunities here? :ponder:

18

What employers want are skills, ability and experience. You will always be weak in some part, you just try to make up for it in others. The OP just needs some experience in a specific industry for a bit.

19

If you can’t find a job with a degree and fluent near native Chinese in the west you must not be selling yourself properly or have other problems. I think this would not be too difficult. I know because I leveraged Chinese speaking but linked it to being in the know about dealing with Chinese clients. I got a job easily in Canada and my Chinese is only ok, can talk business to some degree but not fluent. As someone else suggested, target the government. I think landing any gig in Taiwan would be much more difficult, there are likely more opportunities in your home country; you’d be surprised how many companies can value your “experience” if you market it properly.

20

[quote=“the chief”][quote=“ironlady”]No.

Your value lies only in your English nativeness. No one cares how good your Mandarin is. The island is full of people who are truly native speakers of Mandarin who have degrees in useful things. You have a degree in Chinese. As another person with a degree in Chinese, I can tell you that is rarely a really useful thing to have a degree in, particularly a bachelor’s.

Sticky balls and EFL, or long hours and very low pay in a trading company somewhere, most likely.[/quote]

Double that.

You realize, of course, that you haven’t even defined what kind of job you’re seeking?
I mean would you go on a Living in California forum and post the question “Any entry-level jobs?”.
Or, were you actually looking for a job where you got paid to “speak Mandarin”, since that’s the only skill set you’re admitting to.
As the Lady said, no.
They already got about 26 million people here who do that.
Were you thinking about some kind of Translation gig?
That’s something else entirely, and, as the previous poster can attest, a very competitive and not particularly well-paid field.
Even if you DO end up with “long hours and very low pay in a trading company somewhere”, you still aren’t going to get hired to “speak Mandarin”, it’ll probably be some kind of Marketing position.

Sorry, I don’t mean to be a dick, but, you know, think about it for a second.

ETA: You may also want to consider dialing down the cutesiness in your communications.
If your Mandarin is so good, I’m sure you know the English for “the 大陆”.
And, you know, “laowai”??? Really?[/quote]

Triple that.