First time poster, short time reader. Long story, but I will make it short. My wife and I moved to Taipei from overseas about a year and a half ago. Before we moved here our relationship was literally in the toilet, we slept apart, never talked, hardly were intimate and really hated being in each others presence much of the time. We moved to Taiwan fleeing the financial crisis in the West where we had a very hard time making ends meet. It was always my dream to move to Taiwan for many years and we sort of used our poor financial situation as an excuse to make the jump. We chose Taiwan because of my dream which makes me feel guilty since my wife followed me here in a sense. Our relationship did get alot better here in Taiwan but still have a lot of problem. I want a divorce though she does not and wants to work things out but I am honestly over the whole thing and want to just continue my life. I could go more into detail about those but just writing this post isnt easy so Ill skip that for now. I want to know if anyone here has gone through a divorce with a FELLOW EXPAT, not a Taiwanese spouse. Any and all experience are appreciated.
I’ve never been married, but I still believe in the institution of marriage.
From general observation, the root of most divorces come down to finances.
You mentioned that your marriage had a “very hard time making ends meet” in the West.
If your financial situation has improved in Taiwan, then I say, give your marriage another chance.
Having less financial stress on a marriage allows both to re-focus on the relationship to each other instead of the finances.
On the other hand, if part of your “dream” to move to Taiwan is to fulfill your “yellow fever” for the ladies here, then you should have got a divorce in the West before you came here.
Bringing a wife here is like taking sand to the beach.
Also your wife will feel the strain of your attraction to the Taiwanese ladies.
Especially if your wife is not Asian, then she will be even more paranoid of competing for your attention if you have “yellow fever”.
In this case, it would make sense that you want the divorce, but she does not, because she has no other option while you do.
So ask yourself if you still believe in the institution of marriage is greater than your own pleasures.
Marriage itself is not always about enjoyment because marriage takes a lot of work (and that is not enjoyable).
Anybody can handle the enjoyment part of marriage, but the real test is the work and toil part of marriage.
If say you do divorce and choose a Taiwanese wife, the same work and toil is needed to make that marriage work as well.
The question any guy needs to answer before marrying is “are you willing to work and toil to make that marriage successful?”
Maybe that is why I am not married?
I guess I am too lazy?
This is from the American Institute in Taiwans website.
[quote]Divorce
Divorce in Taiwan normally does not require court action. Divorce by mutual consent is made in writing, witnessed by two people, and registered with the Household Registration Bureau. Unless otherwise agreed, the father gets custody of the children.
To apply to a Taiwan court for a non-consensual divorce, the party seeking the divorce must prove the existence of a legally valid reason (bigamy, infidelity, ill treatment, desertion, etc.). U.S. citizens considering divorce in Taiwan are urged to consult with a local attorney[/quote]
I don’t think that particular quote from the AIT website is relevant to the OP, because it is referring to divorces of marriages that were entered into under Taiwan law, whereas the OP was married under foreign law. I suggest that the OP talk to an attorney experienced in the law of the country where he was married (rather than a “local attorney”).
His query might also get more responses if it were posted in (or moved to) the divorce section of the legal forum.
It doesn’t matter where you got married - you can get divorced anywhere. You do not need to get divorced in the same country as you got married. So the information on the AIT website is relevant. As long as you follow the legal process in whatever country you get married / divorced, it will be recognized. So, if you want to get divorced in Taiwan, you most certainly can. The first step is to move out. Let your wife know that you are formally separating and then leave. Then get a lawyer to kick off the paperwork straight away. An uncontested / no fault divorce is always best - so try and get your wife’s agreement.
Really sorry to hear that your marriage is ending. The only thing I’ll say is this: before you walk away, just double check with yourself that have definitely given it everything you had and that you didn’t hold anything back.
[quote=“Realgroovychick”]It doesn’t matter where you got married - you can get divorced anywhere. You do not need to get divorced in the same country as you got married. So the information on the AIT website is relevant. As long as you follow the legal process in whatever country you get married / divorced, it will be recognized. So, if you want to get divorced in Taiwan, you most certainly can. The first step is to move out. Let your wife know that you are formally separating and then leave. Then get a lawyer to kick off the paperwork straight away. An uncontested / no fault divorce is always best - so try and get your wife’s agreement.
Really sorry to hear that your marriage is ending. The only thing I’ll say is this: before you walk away, just double check with yourself that have definitely given it everything you had and that you didn’t hold anything back.[/quote]
Realgroovychick, You are half right, half wrong. Depending on the circumstances, the OP MAY be able to get divorced anywhere, especially if the spouse agrees to the divorce, but it will be necessary for them to follow the proper legal procedure so that the divorce will be valid in their home country where they got married, as you point out.
But the quote from the AIT website is irrelevant to this case and could be misleading to the OP, because it is talking about Taiwan household registration offices and Taiwan courts, and neither of those will entertain a divorce proceeding for foreign nationals who were married under foreign law and have not registered their marriage in Taiwan. The OP needs to speak to a legal professional versed in the law of their home country to determine how to get a valid divorce.
If the OP is American, then AIT or its website would certainly be a good place to try and get information on the process, or get a referral for a lawyer. But the quote on the AIT website cited in this thread is referring to completely different circumstances from those of the OP (it is addressed to US citizens who got married to spouses in Taiwan under Taiwan law, not to people who got married overseas under foreign law as the OP did).
This second paragraph is not accurate. It may depend on which country you come from and the current resident status of both parties will almost certainly be a factor but at least SOME nationals party to a foreign marriage can divorce here at the Household Registration Office. South Africans can, for example.
If the Household Registration Office is deemed to have jurisdiction to end your marriage (ask them! - And any HRO in Taiwan will do, not just the one where you reside), you’ll need your marriage certificate authenticated by the TECO office in your home country, and then a translated and notarized copy of your marriage certificate obtained in Taiwan. Then, both parties must go to the HRO carrying their marriage certificates, valid passports, valid ARC/APRCs and the “Document of Agreement to Divorce” (離婚協議書) which should be signed and witnessed. My understanding is that the witnesses don’t actually need to be present at the HRO, merely that they should be over the age of 20, and must either be ROC citizens or have a valid ARC. Make sure they write their ID numbers next to their signatures. Give the HRO your documents and you’re done.
However, if your spouse won’t agree to the divorce, you’re shit out of luck. As other posters have noted, non-consensual divorce is exceedingly difficult to obtain in Taiwan. Good luck with that and don’t even bother wasting your money on a lawyer - you can do this stuff yourself.
[quote=“spaint”][quote=“Rotalsnart”]
But the quote from the AIT website is irrelevant to this case and could be misleading to the OP, because it is talking about Taiwan household registration offices and Taiwan courts, and neither of those will entertain a divorce proceeding for foreign nationals who were married under foreign law and have not registered their marriage in Taiwan. The OP needs to speak to a legal professional versed in the law of their home country to determine how to get a valid divorce.
[/quote]
This second paragraph is not accurate. It may depend on which country you come from and the current resident status of both parties will almost certainly be a factor but at least SOME nationals party to a foreign marriage can divorce here at the Household Registration Office. South Africans can, for example.
If the Household Registration Office is deemed to have jurisdiction to end your marriage (ask them! - And any HRO in Taiwan will do, not just the one where you reside), you’ll need your marriage certificate authenticated by the TECO office in your home country, and then a translated and notarized copy of your marriage certificate obtained in Taiwan. Then, both parties must go to the HRO carrying their marriage certificates, valid passports, valid ARC/APRCs and the “Document of Agreement to Divorce” (離婚協議書) which should be signed and witnessed. My understanding is that the witnesses don’t actually need to be present at the HRO, merely that they should be over the age of 20, and must either be ROC citizens or have a valid ARC. Make sure they write their ID numbers next to their signatures. Give the HRO your documents and you’re done.
However, if your spouse won’t agree to the divorce, you’re shit out of luck. As other posters have noted, non-consensual divorce is exceedingly difficult to obtain in Taiwan. Good luck with that and don’t even bother wasting your money on a lawyer - you can do this stuff yourself.[/quote]
Spaint, the OP is talking about two foreign nationals who married outside of Taiwan. Neither of them is a Taiwan citizen. And you’re saying that if they were, for example, both South Africans, that a local household registration office in Taiwan would exercise jurisdiction to end their marriage? Really? What are you basing this on? And even if the household registration office here did decide that it had jurisdiction to give them a divorce, are you sure the government of the country where they were married would automatically recognize that divorce as valid? Even if they can get the divorce done through a local household registration office in Taiwan, it seems like an unnecessary extra step, because inevitably they should still want to go through the authorities of their home country to make sure that the divorce is going to be legally recognized there.
YES - it is possible for two foreigners who got married overseas to get a divorce in Taiwan. I just recently met a Canadian girl who divorced her Australian husband in Taiwan. They were married in Australia. Her ex-husband left her for his Taiwanese co-teacher (ouch!). Anyway, to get divorced they needed to get their marriage licence officially translated into Chinese. They didn’t need a household registration but did need their ARCs. It was an uncontested divorce and they didn’t even need to turn up for court. Their lawyer arranged everything and the judge signed it. It was pretty easy apparently. She got her divorce certificate translated into English.
Regarding having your divorce “recognized” - the only time you need your divorce recognized is when you want to get married again to prove you are single ie: you need to produce your divorce certificate when you’re applying for another marriage licence. That’s it.
With few exceptions, married couples can get divorced in any country in the world regardless of their nationality and where they got married - as long as they fulfill the legal requirements of that country. In New Zealand, you need to be legally separated for two years before you can get a divorce, in the Bahamas you can get a divorce in a week! If two Americans got married in New Zealand, they can go to the Bahamas to get a divorce. A legal divorce certificate from any country will render you divorced wherever you go.
Was I not clear in demonstrating my understanding of the initial premise? You must think I have my head up my ass. Maybe I posted something asinine elsewhere on the site that gave you a bad impression of me, but I’d hope that the details I provided in my previous message might at least lend a veneer of credibility to my post.
Yes.
Really.
Personal experience dealing with the HRO. You can ask themselves if you’d like.
Yes, as long as they had no reason to doubt the authenticity of the divorce.
I would recommend people try and do it at the household registration office themselves if possible. As I said, I don’t know if it’d work for all foreign nationalities but saving the legal fees seems totally worth. All you’d have to do is ask.
Apologies to everyone I’ve contradicted in this thread (Mick, realgroovychick, spaint). Apparently I stand corrected. Oh, and spaint, pretty much everything I’ve read by you on the board has struck me as quite sensible. I wasn’t questioning you personally, just relying on my instinct about how the law works here – which is something that I really should know better than to do, considering that I’m often getting on other people’s cases about doing the same thing (answering by instinct rather than actual knowledge).
Hope everything works out for the best for the OP and his spouse.
Oh, and spaint, pretty much everything I’ve read by you on the board has struck me as quite sensible. I wasn’t questioning you personally, just relying on my instinct about how the law works here – which is something that I really should know better than to do, considering that I’m often getting on other people’s cases about doing the same thing (answering by instinct rather than actual knowledge).