the upside down automated ‘French Press’ …the ‘Clover’
Shops that have it charge somewhere.up to 22.00 US$ for a cup of brew …
But for us poor coffee lovers this could do … the Aeropress
that is Sooooooooooooo American 
Even Tupperware could have invented it…
I swear to my small 18cc Italian brewer with some fine coffee from Bali and clean PH stable water (not from the tab)
Making coffee is a ritual - that plastic aerobie is a disgrace 
I was just pointing out … 
the similarity and price difference …
Holy Smokes!
US$11,000 for a coffee maker? 
and
a coffee maker that puts out 18cc of coffee? 15cc’s is one tablespoon! How long would it take me to fill up my 500cc mug? 
I guess some people take their coffee more seriously than I do.
I’ve been using an AeroPress for 2 years now and I really like it.
[quote=“zender”]
a coffee maker that puts out 18cc of coffee? 15cc’s is one tablespoon! How long would it take me to fill up my 500cc mug?
I guess some people take their coffee more seriously than I do.[/quote]
It makes a coffee concentrate (similar to espresso, but not quite the same), which means you have to dilute it with water to get it to taste like an average cup of coffee.
AeroPresses are inexpensive and make very good coffee. I highly recommend them for people who are interested in coffee.
I see.
Thanks for the explanation.
I don’t know much about coffee, and my tastes are pretty simple.
At the moment the wifey and I are drinking some peaberry coffee from Bali that we grind and run through our cheap espresso machine. Of course it’s been months since it was roasted, and I don’t know what I’m doing,but it comes out OK.
I’ve recently seen some guys on TV that really seem to know their coffee, and I’m sure they would laugh at what I’m doing.
I wonder how much you’d dilute 18ccs of concentrate?
You dilute it to whatever strength you want to drink it at. You can even add warm or cold milk for a latte. You can add ice and cold water for iced coffee. It’s really quite a versatile little gadget.
What kind of espresso machine and grinder do you have?
Gosh! I think the espresso machine is a EUPA. The grinder is a similar bottom-of-the-line plastic model as far as I know (Braun?). I notice that even if I grind for 15 seconds or so, I’ll still get some chips of beans that didn’t get ground finely enough. I probably should pack it harder, as I see the pros really putting some effort into it to make sure the flow is more even. Getting an Aeropress would eliminate that problem.
I kind of wonder if a US$30 Aeropress doesn’t do more or less what the US$11,000 machine does without the smoky- mirrored whizzbangery.
I’m always a skeptic. I just don’t think most people can taste/appreciate the difference between a twenty-dollar bottle of wine and a two-hundred-dollar bottle. I feel the same way about coffee.
More importantly, if I can’t tell the difference (or even prefer the taste of the cheaper version), why pay for it?
Actually, I think I made a mistake that I should correct. You were originally asking about the 18cc Italian coffee brewer that ceevee369 was talking about. My replies have been about the AeroPress. I’m not sure what method ceevee369 is using, although it’s likely he/she is pulling a ristretto.
You’re not far off when you say the AeroPress could duplicate a Clover. I’ve had Clover coffee here in Taichung (at Retro on WuChuan W. Rd., near the Art Museum). It’s good coffee for about $140NT per 12oz. cup ($80NT for take-out). In theory, with some slight modifications–and using the AeroPress in an inverted manner–you could come close to duplicating a Clover-like brew–close enough to make $11,000 look silly. The main difference is that the AeroPress is paper-filtered, whereas the Clover uses a 100 micron metal filter, so the coffee oils still make it into the cup–hence the modifications.
I suspect the $22/cup was not simply because it was made using a Clover. Most likely it was Jamaican Blue Mountain, Kopi Luwak, or some other rare and expensive coffee bean. In the long run, a Clover can actually save a coffee shop money, provided they have heavy enough use. Also, using a Clover does not automatically guarantee good coffee. You still have to use good quality, freshly-roasted, freshly-ground coffee–and good water, too.
You’re right - this is the system I swear on. Well grinded moka in it and even the most expensive Lavazza is waste of money.
I’m a big fan of coffee and so I thought I’d give a heads up to anyone in my area to the wonders of the shop at the corner of Wenlin Road and Zhongzheng known as Nanmei (southern Beauty). I swear it serves the best coffee I’ve ever had, and I’ve tried a lot. Go for the simply 100nt breakfast there which consists of 1 boiled egg, a piece of toast and their regular brew and you simply won’t be disappointed. No fancy machines brewing in there, just the pure human touch and a woman with a highly developed sense of smell who tells if it is ready or not. They import their own coffee beans from various countries and roast them themselves. They seem to be quite a large distributor.
ceevee369,
What equipment do you grind and brew with? I have a Taiwanese Feima 600N grinder, and I use either the AeroPress or else a French press (a 32oz. Starbucks-Bodum hybrid and 12oz. Bodum Shin Bistro).
Since this thread was originally about the Clover, some people may be interested to know that Starbucks bought the company that makes the Clover machine. From that point on, no independent cafes can purchase one. It will be used exclusively in Starbucks’ coffeeshops.
how is it better than any of the espresso machines like La Pavoni, properly used in the hands of a skilled professional barista, or at home after some practice. all the bonus it has for stores like Starbutts is that it can be used by a monkey. and it makes them a lot of money… there is no way that that machine is actually worth more than, say, a Krups home espresso machine, about $300. $11,000 is daylight robbery, an invented price at best, and even more reason not to shop at Starbutts .
They have another shop on Chengdu Road in Ximending (near subway stop) just in case you didn’t know. I like Fengda next door too.
Also by the way, nanmei also means “South America” which i guess is what they’re driving at 
It’s not necessarily ‘better’ than any other method, as it is completely up to the person drinking to decide which one they prefer. What the Clover is is different. It allows a great deal of variation in brew temperatures and times, all instantaneously. Each customer can request exactly how they like their coffee to be brewed and have the cup tailored accordingly. It’s designed to brew one cup right after another for very busy shops or during peak hours. It is made very durably so that it can keep on chugging without needing repairs. The coffee gets sucked out of the grounds using some sort of vacuum system, which I don’t imagine is cheap. Plus, this is new technology that hasn’t had a return on its investment yet, unlike most espresso machines. I don’t think this is anywhere near the technology or quality of a $300 espresso machine.
That being said, I also don’t think it’s near the $11,000 price tag. If I’m not mistaken–and I very well might be–it’s even more expensive than a 3-group Synesso Cyncra. But when you consider how many cups you can crank out of both of them in a given time, and that the Clover lets you taste the nuances of single-origin beans in a way that doesn’t always work out well with an espresso machine, and that a Clover requires less storage space and cleaning time than keeping fifteen 12oz. French presses around–not to mention the breakage associated with them–then it all starts to make sense. I also think it was estimated that, given the number of coffee shops dedicated to premium coffee, sales for this kind of machine would initially be very low, regardless of the price. So the best way to recover their investment was to set a high per-unit price. It’s still over priced, but not quite robbery.
I also made a mistake regarding the Clover’s filter: it’s 70 microns, not 100.
Also, the $11,000 price tag was set long before Starbucks bought the company. Some premium-coffee drinkers even suspect that this will force Starbucks to use lighter and more-freshly roasted beans, bringing up the quality of the coffee served in their shops. It could, potentially, be a good thing for Starbucks and their customers. Right now, it’s a bad thing for independent coffee shops who may have wanted to buy one but are now locked out. But, that may also hasten competing manufacturers to invent something similar and go head-to-head with Starbucks, ultimately bringing prices down. Who knows? It’s anyone’s guess at this point.
[quote=“ca01007”]ceevee369,
What equipment do you grind and brew with? I have a Taiwanese Feima 600N grinder, and I use either the AeroPress or else a French press (a 32oz. Starbucks-Bodum hybrid and 12oz. Bodum Shin Bistro).[/quote]
I use the Starbucks Stainless 32oz. in the morning and switch over to a Phillips Senseo machine in the afternoon.
I’m the opposite of you, MJB. When I do drink coffee in the morning, I usually drink AeroPress because it’s filtered and therefore easier on my stomach. I don’t usually have French press coffee until the afternoon when my stomach can handle it better.
Does the Senseo only take pods, or can you brew loose grounds in it? Can the pods be made at home, or do they need to be purchased?
They have another shop on Chengdu Road in Ximending (near subway stop) just in case you didn’t know. I like Fengda next door too.
Also by the way, nanmei also means “South America” which i guess is what they’re driving at [/quote]
Yeah, that’s the one! I’d heard they had one in Ximending, but thanks for the road as I didn’t know where exactly. I don’t go there often but I’ll be interested to compare if I make a visit sometime.
[quote=“ca01007”]I’m the opposite of you, MJB. When I do drink coffee in the morning, I usually drink AeroPress because it’s filtered and therefore easier on my stomach. I don’t usually have French press coffee until the afternoon when my stomach can handle it better.
Does the Senseo only take pods, or can you brew loose grounds in it? Can the pods be made at home, or do they need to be purchased?[/quote]
It takes pods, but it can also accommodate a zip pod that is refillable. Our European distributor is kind enough to ship me several months worth of the pods from Europe, where they are far cheaper. The only complaint I have with the machine is that the pods really have to sit flush or it will leak while brewing.
It does make a surprisingly rich, non bitter coffee.
[quote=“sulavaca”]
Yeah, that’s the one! I’d heard they had one in Ximending, but thanks for the road as I didn’t know where exactly. I don’t go there often but I’ll be interested to compare if I make a visit sometime.[/quote]
It’s about a block and a half away from Ximen MRT stop. If you get out at exit 1 you’ll be on the correct side of the street. Walk in the direction of the Red Theater from the MRT exit and its on the next block. Like Tempo Gain pointed out, you can try either Fengda or Nanmei since they are next door to each other. Nanmei’s address is 臺北市成都路44號.
Here is a write up on it, in Chinese. I couldn’t find anything in English on it.
http://www.shimen-walker.com/rest_home.aspx?rest_id=0000501