What is this about governments giving awards to Falun Gong? Please tell us more.
I can’t answer any of your questions, but Isaac Hayes is one too 
.
See, this is disturbing. If you disagree, it’s because “you don’t get it”. No counter arguments, just “Oh you don’t understand.”
No, not all are fools. I already said myself that I did practice FLG for a while - solely as Qigong, not as a religion. I’d wager there’s a lot of other “practitioners” like myself.
Respecting their right to practice doesn’t preclude us from criticizing those same beliefs. You can believe what you want, that doesn’t make those beliefs right and above criticism.
It is a shame to see the atrocious treatment FLG practitioners get at the hands of the PRC government. Don’t confuse my disagreement with your religious choice with callous disregard for the practitioners themselves.
But respecting others’ rights doesn’t mean we have to agree with their beliefs and opinions.
Operation Clambake can probably answer all that, and any other questions about Scientology you might have.
By the way, don’t try and find anti-Scientology information - especially Operation Clambake - on Google; Google buckled under pressure from the Church of Scientology and removed all that stuff from their database.
Juba, thank you for your concern. Too many awards,so I cannot post here. Please see the details of the awards(more than one thousand—
at this link :
clearwisdom.net/emh/special_ … ition.html
Tesuo, I have known that you do not support the cruel persecution.
Of course, anyone who has a bit consceince does not support the persecution.
I am here just trying to let people know the extremely evil persecutuion to innocent people.
You did not continue your practice only because you do not believe something beyond your notion, like a person in 100 years ago would not believe that people can sent to the moon.
some persons like you gave up their practice, but many more people came to study the practice. Taiwan, for example, after the starting of the persecution, the amount of the practitioners increased very fast, now about 400000 practitioners in Taiwan.
One person gets something good, he wants to share with his family and friends, that is why within several years the amount of practitioners in China has achieved 10000000.
Think it carefully, people’s wisdom is very limited, donot casually denigrate something beyond your thinking. Especially Falun Gong, which tells people to act according the nature of the universe–to be true, good and endure. Falun Gong let numerous people get healthy and improve their moral standard, lead them to be a good person, a better person. That is why so many governments gave awards to Falun Gong.
[quote=“Lizi1118”]You did not continue your practice only because you do not believe something beyond your notion, like a person in 100 years ago would not believe that people can sent to the moon.
some persons like you gave up their practice, but many more people came to study the practice. Taiwan, for example, after the starting of the persecution, the amount of the practitioners increased very fast, now about 400000 practitioners in Taiwan.[/quote]
No, I didn’t give up because I “do not believe something beyond (my) notion” (sic), I gave up because the dependency on Li Hongzhi (whether in a spiritual sense or a mundane sense) made it clear that there was too much of a personality cult involved. I also gave up because there were far too many other wild inaccuracies and scarily cultish tendencies espoused. Don’t assume things about other people just because they don’t agree with you.
And has it occured to you that there might be other factors in it’s growth since the start of the oppression in China? People fleeing China, people taking it up as a statement of opposition to the PRC, people taking it up simply because it’s got a certain cachet… there are a lot of other reasons, unrelated to the teachings themselves and their potential benefits, that people could take FLG up.
The Church of Scientology claims to have 9 million followers. That doesn’t make it any less dangerous or wrong. Just because a lot of people believe something doesn’t make it right or good, just persuasive.
I don’t do this casually. I make it a personal policy to try and study up on things - especially of this nature - before I dismiss them entirely. And I’d appreciate it if you could respond with more than “you disagree because you don’t get it.” That’s pretty hollow. I prefer to deal in realities.
The Zhen-Shan-Ren moral code of FLG is admirable. Then again, so are the basics of Communism. Human nature has a knack for messing up good ideas. As for claims of making people healthier, I’d rather see independent medical evidence for this than the biased opinion of a practitioner. “Improved moral standards” are entirely subjective, as is what constitutes a “good” or “better” person. What you consider good, I may very well not. And the reverse holds true.
As for those awards, I’d be wary of how seriously I take them. You see that one for NZ? That’s from my home town. Falun Dafa day happened once, was a publicity exercise, and nothing else came of it. Also, Russ Rimmington was a publicity seeking tool who’d sign his soul to Satan if it would give him a good photo opportunity. And a lot of those aren’t “awards”, they’re “awareness weeks” which generally mean little. See also my comment on the rise in practitioners - that can apply here too. Also, don’t forget that outside of China, FLG is rarely promoted as anything more than a meditation technique.
That said, it’s good to see religious tolerance is still alive and well. I may not agree with your choice, but I respect your right to make it and to have the choice. I hope you can do the same.
If you want to see the scientific report about the health effect of Falun Gong. Here it is.
[quote]Falun Gong Health Effects Survey: Ten thousand Cases in Beijing
Summary: To determine the health effect of Falun Gong, we conducted a survey among some Falun Gong practitioner in five districts in Beijing, with 12,731 valid questionnaires. Our results show that Falun Gong’s disease healing rate is 99.1% with a cure rate of 58.5%; Improvement rate is 80.3% in physical health and 96.5% in mental health. The survey indicates that Falun Gong has a significant effect in disease healing and health promotion. Falun Gong is an excellent Qi-gong that benefits people both physically and mentally…[/quote]
[quote=“Lizi1118”]If you want to see the scientific report about the health effect of Falun Gong. Here it is.If you want to see the figures,tables, below is the link.
pureinsight.org/pi/articles/ … 1/184.html[/quote]
Show me data from an independent source please. The source you gave is as biased as it comes. Or at least something with some scientific backing. That was a survey handed out by a FLG group to other FLG participants, who then filled out the survey with their perceptions. And it was a voluntary survey, immediately skewing the results in favor of FLG’s claims. Show me proof from a medical experiment that follows scientific method and is performed by a source independent from FLG and I’ll believe you. Otherwise it just sounds like propaganda.
And please, you’ve been told once - don’t paste entire articles here. The link is enough. Summarise if you have to.
Tetsuo’s quite right. I have edited your post to within acceptable limits. In the future, please follow this model.
Thanks.
–the moderator
Thanks, Crank Laowai.
This survey was done by the professors in China’s highest level medical universities, and you should remember that Falun Gong practitioners act according to the nature of the universe. That is, Falun Gong practitioners do not lie. Otherwise disobey the belief. Right?
Firstly, that is such utterly nonsense logic as to be laughable. They don’t lie because they say they don’t lie?
Also, I never said they lied. It’s entirely possible to be wrong and still believe you are right, to say something false and believe it wholeheartedly to be true. Are you familiar with the placebo effect? Where people in scientific studies are given a placebo as a control to compare to the drug/treatment being tested, while not being told they’re being given a placebo? You’ll find that often people given the placebo will report improvements along the lines they expect the drug/treatment to provide simply because they believe they’re being given that drug/treatment. The human mind is an amazing thing, and can make you think and believe that something is true and has happened even when it actually hasn’t. That’s why a survey asking about medical effects of a religious practice, filled in only by followers of that practice, and without medical testing to back up the results, means nothing. Show me medical, scientific, empirical proof of the medical effects of FLG and I’ll believe you.
Right. And neither, of course, do any Christians – after all, “Thou shalt not lie” is one of the Ten Commandments. I haven’t yet read the Q’ran, but I’m sure Muslims also have some kind of admonition that lying is wrong. As does the Torah, probably. I don’t know about Hindus or Buddhists, but even without those segments, I guess if we follow your logic, practically NOBODY lies. Ever. Right?
[quote=“Tetsuo”]
Show me medical, scientific, empirical proof of the medical effects of FLG and I’ll believe you.[/quote]
Tetsuo…you do enjoy beating your head against a wall, don’t you?
This same sentence can be applied to any faith-based belief system - Christianity, Muslims, etc…that is the nature of faith…there doesn’t need to be proof. As long as desperate people need to cling to something greater than themselves to exist in this life, there will always be some man-made fantasy system to fill that void…or drugs…lots of good drugs. 
Personally, I recommend religion…it’s more destructive on a grand scale. 
I’m just trying to call Lizi on her shit. She claims FLG has wonderful medical effects and can cure disease - that’s easy provable if true. If she was just making claims that revolve around faith, then that’d be fine. When she starts trying to make claims that are scientifically falsifiable, she opens herself up to being called on her bluff.
Maybe all that time on China-Rising is bringing out the rabid mongrel in me
Wait up, I’m sure if held up to all the other looney cultish religions, FLG is up there.
But let’s remember that the FLG became the focus of the PRC not because they’re looney.
It is because they broke a few rules. First off, they were not registered as a religious group in the PRC and manage to attracted a few million followers (Even Christain groups are driven underground because of this). Then the biggest no-no, they decided to hold a political demonstration in the capital without filing the proper paper work.
Given PRC response to the last political demonstration without a permit in Tiananmen, you think they actually put on kid’s glove when dealing with FLG.
Actually there is no such commandment. It is thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
While technically right, it is widely accepted as meaning - and even translated in modern versions as - “do not lie” or “do not lie about others”.
Falun Dafa Cultivation
[quote=“Lizi1118”]Falun Dafa Cultivation
You’ll also note, if you read the report, at total absence of any reference to how the results were obtained, what they’re in comparison to, whether any control group was used, or even if there was any consideration of other possible factors… Oh, and note that this report, from what I’ve managed to dig up on it so far (no harm in getting verification), has only been reported in pro-FLG websites, nowhere else. Which is odd, for a professional who had 15 papers published 1999-2001.