Firstly, it was just an observational pilot study, not a definitive experiment. Secondly, there is a repeated and definite use of “may” before almost every report of effect and its link with FLG practice. It may be because of FLG. And even Dr Feng comes out directly with a list of questions about her own report:
It may not even be unique to FLG, by Dr Feng’s own admission.
Summary of Results from the 1999 Health Survey of Falun Gong Practitioners in North America
[quote]Around October 1999, a few practitioners had an idea of collecting health survey data in North America. The idea stems from the large health surveys conducted in China prior to July 1999. The original motivation was to collect the data, and then publish the results in academic journals to validate Dafa from a scientific perspective.
The first problem encountered was how to design the survey questionnaire. The questionnaire used in the health survey in Beijing contained only a few questions and it seemed too simple for the population of practitioners in North America. We decided to include in the questionnaire a question on the respondent’s education attainment, as we know many practitioners in North America have advanced degrees. Questions on cigarette smoking were also included as an attempt to estimate the percentage of smokers who quit smoking after practicing Falun Dafa. For the general health improvement, we adopted some questions in the sample adult section of the 1997 “National Health Interview Survey’’ from the U.S. National Center for Health Statistics.
In November 1999, after the questionnaire was prepared, we emailed a copy to the volunteer contact persons around the U.S. and Canada. Then the volunteers could forward them to their local practitioners, either electronically or in paper form. We received 235 responses by April 2000, with 202 from American practitioners, 32 from Canadian practitioners, and 1 who did not respond to the country he/she was from. Though the academic response was not very supportive due to different opinions, the data was sufficient to see the health improvement on practitioners before and after practice. The data was entered into EXCEL, and we used SAS and S-PLUS statistical software to analyze the data.
The demographic data reflected that many practitioners in North America are relatively young and well educated. The health improvement based on self-evaluated health status before and after practice was very strong. Based on the positive survey results, around February of 2001 we wrote a paper and submitted it to an academic public health journal. The review sent back it to us around July of 2001 with somewhat negative comments. One of the critiques was that the response rate was not given, i.e. out of how many survey questionnaires did we receive 235 responses. This was considered a major drawback of the paper and the results. Due to various reasons, we did not attempt to revise the paper and submit it again. The paper was left in the drawer for quite a while. With encouragement from some practitioners, we wrote this report to share the results with fellow practitioners and to summarize the learning experience that we have had.
With the writing of this summary report, we hope that whoever could help us estimate the response rate will contact us. It will be very helpful for us if you could provide the number of surveys that you distributed. We now turn to the results that we found from the data.[/quote]
Please just post the LINKS ONLY to your pieces of non-scientific propaganda. By continually posting these screeds of mumbo-jumbo without any backing or supporting links, you are doing yourself no favours and are making yourself look like an ignorant brainwashed crank.
Don’t you see, these things (I can’t describe them as scientific papers because they so clearly are nowhere even close to being that) are written BY Falun Gong people FOR OTHER Falun Gong people. The rest of us need to see evidence – not manufactured claptrap like you are posting. Give us links to REAL, peer-reviewed studies published in recognized medical and scientific journals. That is how the scientific and medical world works. I’m guessing that there aren’t any, just as the Moonies don’t get their crap published in Lancet, etc.
I’m guessing you won’t find ANY such references. After all, according to your Gene Expression shite (which I actually forced myself to read – I want those 10 wasted minutes of my life back, btw), practice of Falun Gong cures AIDS. That’s what it says, in essence. What a lot of FUCKING SHIT! :raspberry: :raspberry: :raspberry:
Lizi, while I admire your conviction, please: if you’re going to claim scientifically provable benefits can come from FLG practice, show scientific data to back it up. Surveys are not scientific, especially when they’re only compiled by FLG supporters, only handed to FLG supporters, and only filled in by FLG supporters. There is nothing scientific about that - it’s an inherently biased sample, even more biased toward a positive result by the voluntary nature (meaning only those with strong views will be bothered), and even further by being written by non-independent researchers. So far, if I’m being generous, you’re sitting 2 to 1 against in your attempts to back this up. If I were to be completely honest and count only purely scientific, validated, and comprehensive data, you’d have just swung at strike three.
Answer your questions.
Actually I have a bachelor degree of medical science; I know the modern medical science completely.
I have practiced since 1996, only took medical pills once after practicing.
Falun Gong is not for people to treat deseases, but has the effect of improving health condition. If you ask the survey done according to the frame of developing a new drug, that is a prejudice.
A real practitioner of Falun Gong must improve his character, try to be a good person, a better person and acting according to the nature of the universe—Truthfulness, Benevolence, Forbearance. Thus, a practitioner is sur to benefit other people and society. That is the reason why many governments gave awards to Falun Gong and why the people in more than 60 countries practice Falun Gong. When practitioners improve character, their health conditions improve. The practitioners really feel the great changes happened physically and mentally, so we believe the practice and hope others can be benefitted from the great practice. This can explain, as evil as the cruel persecution, Falun Gong practitioners insist belief .
Lizi, PLEASE! Stick to the Falun Gong persecution aspect. That is indeed awful and will gain you sympathy. Stay away from the “medical benefits” aspect, as it is completely unfounded and makes Falun Gong look like a bunch of looney cranks.
ANY kind of meditation can improve the well-being and “condition” of the practitioner. I have been meditating for many years as a method of stress relief and I am not associated with Falun Gong in any way, shape or form. This is NOT limited to Falun Gong practitioners and to claim that it is, is just nutty.
One more thing. Your Lili Feng claims that the NHI donated US$10 million for the study of Falun Gong benefits for AIDS sufferers. She is being disingenous.
A Google search for "NHI prayer therapy for AIDS patients turns up 2,800 links, covering everything from conventional prayer to Yoga to Reiki, to psychic healing. THese are used in all kinds of chronic diseases, not just AIDS and I see no reference in the first several pages of links to Falun Dafa, and in fact, the overwhelming conclusion is that such practices have no scientifically provable benefits.
I’ve seen things saying that, as Sandman said, meditation - which FLG is a form of - has beneficial effects on the practitioner. I have yet to see anything that ranks FLG above other forms. And if it’s “not for people to treat diseases,” why do the links you provided keep raving about how it can treat AIDS, cancer, and other diseases?
Bullshit. That’s not prejudice, that’s wanting factual information and not going on faith.
Now this I can agree with. The Zhen-Shan-Ren moral code is a great idea, and if more people followed it the world would be a better place. That said, it’s certainly not unique to FLG. That trio basically summarises the moral codes of pretty much every major religion on Earth. It’s good that FLG makes it plain and obvious though.
For a Bachelor of Medical Science, that’s utterly nonsensical. SHow some proof that character and health are in any way connected.
And this, Lizi, is exactly why I keep saying you need proof. Feelings, belief, hope, none of those are in the least bit scientific. I’m sure even Satanists “feel” that great changes have happened to them, “believe” in their practice, and “hope” others can benefit. And reality isn’t democratic - just because a lot of people believe something to be true doesn’t make it true.
Faith and science are not the same thing. A Bachelor of Medical Science should know that.
FLG’s not alone in that. What about all the underground Christian groups in China. They get persecuted too, and they carry on.
Like Sandman said - if you want people to follow you, Lizi, stick with the persecution angle. Hell, even play the Zhen-Shan-Ren angle if you want. Those are things that people will listen to and sympathise with. The persecution is a matter of fact, and is utterly deplorable. As I’ve made clear, I don’t agree with religious FLG, but I do detest the treatment practitioners in China have been the victims of. But once you start touting FLG as the Great Medical Hope and making various claims that have no grounding in reality whatsoever, you lose any sympathy you may’ve gained.
For a Bachelor of Medical Science, that’s utterly nonsensical. SHow some proof that character and health are in any way connected.
Let us look into the proof of this question.
Concerning water crystals, the IHM has performed quite a few fascinating experiments.
In this way, water crystals have clearly demonstrated to us that the consciousness of human beings is actually a materially existing substance, and this substance can even change our environment.
Although this consciousness experiment is revolutionary and new, the conclusion drawn absolutely is not. In his book Zhuan Falun, Mr. Li Hongzhi has described the nature of consciousness as such:
If I bang my head against this brick wall any longer I’m going to pass out, so I’m giving up on this. Apparently the concepts of “proof”, “science”, and “evidence” don’t seem to be taught in Bachelor of Medical Science courses any more.
I never wrote that only Falun Gong can improve people’s health condition, I only want to say Falun Gong is good for people’s health.
But the propaganda of Chinese government tells lies about this issue, I want to make it clear.
I also want to introduce another article, which you may think it is scientific:
Truthfulness-Compassion-Forbearance in a Markov Clinical Decision Support Model for Treatment of Laryngeal Cancer
Dianna Roberts, Ph.D. (Senior Statistical Analyst, Univ. of Texas M. D. Anderson Cancer Center, Hous
Purpose: To derive a clinical decision support model in keeping with Truthfulness-Compassion-Forbearance for helping the physician and his patient determine the best treatment modality, laryngectomy vs. laryngeal preservation with combined chemo- and radiotherapy, for patients with stage II and III squamous cell carcinoma of the larynx with or without nodal involvement (T2/T3, N0/N+).
Method: A Markov model was formulated to aide in the decision analysis using the software package TreeAge (student version). Markov states were determined based on the rehabilitative modalities after total laryngectomy, death, recurrences, and disease-free survival after chemo/-radiotherapy with or without late effects of the therapy. Values for survival and recurrence rates after the therapeutic modalities were drawn from a cohort of patients treated at MDACC with the same characteristics as those eligible for the experimental protocol.
Results: Since the model draws on the experience of the entire cohort of patients with similar disease and complex calculations of utility and disutility are done without caretaker bias, this decision support system assimilates to Truthfulness. Since the model calculates the most likely results of the various treatments and rehabilitative modes and the patient
That has nothing to do with ANYTHING. That all that says is “doctors shouldn’t lie to patients”. Well duh!
And please, Lizi, do you know any of these reports that are available from websites that aren’t FLG promotional vehicles? Or at the bare minimum, reports not written by FLG practitioners?
If you want to correct misperceptions that are based on the propaganda of the PRC government, don’t resort to using your own propaganda.
And you wonder why the PRC cracked down on the group.
I mean we take it for granted that we are relatively well educated in science to make educated decisions on what FLG advocates. Some of it might be good some of it might be bad.
But imagine the havoc this organized group can caused in a country that is not so well educated in basic sciences for the masses. Like PRC for instance.
FLG would say give up condoms, since FLG can protect you from HIV infection. And some poor Chinese person would believe it.
FLG would say give up modern medicine since FLG prevents disease. And some poor Chinese person would believe it.
So judging by Lizi’s posts, all we can really surmise is that FLG practitioners are indeed a bunch of nutjobs.
Way to go, Lizi! You really are an EXCELLENT ambassador for nutty fruitcakes everywhere.
What a PUTZ!
You have shown us clearly that the PRC are in fact correct in clamping down on FLG. They are clearly very dangerous.
I still don’t agree with the persecution and harassment of FLG practitioners, but they really do need to be stopped. Lizi, you have made that very obvious!
[quote=“sandman”]
One more thing. Your Lili Feng claims that the NHI donated US$10 million for the study of Falun Gong benefits for AIDS sufferers. She is being disingenous.
A Google search for "NHI prayer therapy for AIDS patients turns up 2,800 links, covering everything from conventional prayer to Yoga to Reiki, to psychic healing. THese are used in all kinds of chronic diseases, not just AIDS and I see no reference in the first several pages of links to Falun Dafa, and in fact, the overwhelming conclusion is that such practices have no scientifically provable benefits.[/quote]
Maybe you did not read the article carefully, here is what she wrote:
"At present more and more people are beginning to acknowledge the influence of the mind on the body. The financial support from the National Institutes of Health (NIH) in this area has increased each year. In 1999, it granted the University of Pittsburgh 10 million dollars to study the interaction between the mind and the body. Recently NIH also funded a program on curing patients with AIDS through
I stand corrected. However, she writes such utter nonsense that it was difficult to maintain concentration for long without laughing out loud.
Still, I failed to find any references to FLG in the links turned up by a google search, so what on earth was her point in even mentioning the NHI?
And as for your ridiculous “narrow mindset” statement, what do you mean by that? I can only assume that you are referring to the scientific method of study, as opposed to your way – “my master says it’s true, so it must be. They’ve even done surveys that prove it.”
As a scientist, you should be ashamed of yourself. You sound more like an uneducated peasant.
