What gives with yuanfen?
My ex and I occasionally exchange messages on WeChat.
I stopped and asked myself - why bother? And asked her the same - she said “it’s our fate”, referring to fate/缘分.
Seems it’s quite an important concept, in relationships etc. Why does she bother to tell me this, when we don’t even see each other anymore? Hoping for a reunion down the line? Or just being silly and superstitious? (she is mental about feng shui)
[quote=“Baas Babelaas”]What gives with yuanfen?
My ex and I occasionally exchange messages on WeChat.
I stopped and asked myself - why bother? And asked her the same - she said “it’s our fate”, referring to fate/缘分.
Seems it’s quite an important concept, in relationships etc. Why does she bother to tell me this, when we don’t even see each other anymore? Hopinng for a reunion down the line? Or just being silly and superstitious (she is mental about feng shui)?[/quote]
Shouldn’t that be YuEnFen?
And YuenFen the concept is more than just fate, it’s specifically the destiny that two people share, the predetermined parts of their lives that they will spend together.
My money would be on
Nope, it’s yuanfen.
Consider my two-bit WG ass out-Romanized.
Are fate and destiny the exact same thing? I dunno. Anyway, I have to reject both concepts because they would mean that the future is already decided. And that… would totally fuck up my enjoyment of watching sports.
If she is single, maybe it means reconciliation in the future. Some people, however, like to keep conversations going with ex-lovers as a form of control. Sort of a, ‘you are still a puppet I can make dance,’ kinda attitude or a, ‘no matter how much I screw up at least THAT person is still under my power.’ If she is with someone, maybe its so she can maintain some form of a fantasy that she can jump ship… If you don’t have too strong of a feeling that you want to get back with her then it is mostly harmless. You are just massaging her ego, from your point of view, however her ego is manifesting itself. However, if one feels stronger than the other it could be damaging further down the line if expectations now become unfulfilled later.
[quote=“superking”]Are fate and destiny the exact same thing? I dunno. Anyway, I have to reject both concepts because they would mean that the future is already decided. And that… would totally fuck up my enjoyment of watching sports.
If she is single, maybe it means reconciliation in the future. Some people, however, like to keep conversations going with ex-lovers as a form of control. Sort of a, ‘you are still a puppet I can make dance,’ kinda attitude or a, ‘no matter how much I screw up at least THAT person is still under my power.’ If she is with someone, maybe its so she can maintain some form of a fantasy that she can jump ship… If you don’t have too strong of a feeling that you want to get back with her then it is mostly harmless. You are just massaging her ego, from your point of view, however her ego is manifesting itself. However, if one feels stronger than the other it could be damaging further down the line if expectations now become unfulfilled later.[/quote]
No kidding. This guy I knew, his ex-girlfriend kept calling him up to complain about her most recent boyfriend breaking up with her.
She says to my buddy, totally incredulous,
“All these guys keep breaking up with me. And they all give the EXACT SAME reasons you did when YOU dumped me! What’s up with that??”
My buddy was, like “Uhhh, well…?”
I’m feeling that, and have disengaged contact with her, telling her that both parties need to come to the table in a friendship.
She has declined to reply.
Women - can’t live without 'em, can’t shoot 'em…
cant write mando but theres a mando saying in taiwan that goes something like:
Old bulls do not eat grass that you must turn your head to eat.
Meaning : eat new grass.
[quote=“tommy525”]cant write mando but theres a mando saying in taiwan that goes something like:
Old bulls do not eat grass that you must turn your head to eat.
Meaning : eat new grass.[/quote]
I think you’ve got your Chinese aphorisms mixed up there, tommy. It’s either “rabbits don’t eat grass that’s next to their burrows” (兔子不吃窩邊草), meaning don’t have a relationship with your neighbor or coworker, or “old bulls eat young grass” (老牛吃嫩草), meaning old men prefer young women.
Yuanfen is more accurately translated as “karmic bond”.
[quote=“Incubus”][quote=“tommy525”]cant write mando but theres a mando saying in taiwan that goes something like:
Old bulls do not eat grass that you must turn your head to eat.
Meaning : eat new grass.[/quote]
I think you’ve got your Chinese aphorisms mixed up there, tommy. It’s either “rabbits don’t eat grass that’s next to their burrows” (兔子不吃窩邊草), meaning don’t have a relationship with your neighbor or coworker, or “old bulls eat young grass” (老牛吃嫩草), meaning old men prefer young women.[/quote]
I think the phrase tommy has in mind is “a good steed never turns back to graze on a trodden pasture” (好馬不吃回頭草 haoma buchi huitoucao). No reason it can’t apply to old bulls as well as good steeds, especially old bulls that prefer “young grass.”
Thank you, a vastly more graceful expression of what I was attempting to convey. 
[quote=“Rotalsnart”][quote=“Incubus”][quote=“tommy525”]cant write mando but theres a mando saying in taiwan that goes something like:
Old bulls do not eat grass that you must turn your head to eat.
Meaning : eat new grass.[/quote]
I think you’ve got your Chinese aphorisms mixed up there, tommy. It’s either “rabbits don’t eat grass that’s next to their burrows” (兔子不吃窩邊草), meaning don’t have a relationship with your neighbor or coworker, or “old bulls eat young grass” (老牛吃嫩草), meaning old men prefer young women.[/quote]
I think the phrase tommy has in mind is “a good steed never turns back to graze on a trodden pasture” (好馬不吃回頭草 haoma buchi huitoucao). No reason it can’t apply to old bulls as well as good steeds, especially old bulls that prefer “young grass.”[/quote]
YESYES tahts the phrase. SO it was a horse then? I thought it was an old bull. so solee ah.
and yesyes im fitting that descrip better and better as i age and my new girlfriends stay the same age. haha.
so solee again ah.
Pretty sure people of all nationalities use hindsight to apply some sense of fate/destiny to their long term/meaningful relationships… maybe Taiwanese more openly direct about the idea though
[To paraphrase Amy Liu, from the Community Services Center in Tienmu, ‘Yuan Fen’ has no direct translation in English. At the heart of the concept of ‘yuan fen’ is connection. Two souls are brought back together again, often because either the ‘yuan’ hasn’t ended or one of the two souls still have something to teach the other.
I rarely talk about ‘yuan fen’, for it is difficult for most Westerners/Christians to understand, let alone accept, In Taiwan, it is mostly used to describe the relationship between two people. ‘Yuan’ can be described as a feeling of knowing of being some-how connected to someone when you first meet them. The feeling is inexplicable because you don’t know or hardly know each other. It’s a feeling that comes from the gut, with no concrete reason to explain or support it. It’s not love at first sight, rather a deep sense of connection. ‘Fen’ is the process that allows this connection to grow into a relationship.
In almost sixty years, I’ve only experienced it three times.
I can hardly be described as "New Age’ or ‘spacey’. I am a Connecticut Yankee whose family settled in the State 140 years before the U.S. came together. I graduated from an East Coast boarding school and an Ivy League college, with a major which combined Accounting/Economics/Finance. But one day, as an undergraduate, I greeted an acquaintance in library and stopped to exchange some pleasantries. Standing quietly next to the acquaintance, was a pretty Thai graduate student in Anthropology. There were many pretty graduate students at my university, but I became aware, as I chatted to the acquaintance, that the student, standing next to her, was important and I was not to let her out of my life. Several months later we became a couple. Later I proposed twice. She said no. She also proposed twice, and I said no. We always seemed to be asking each at the wrong time. ‘You yuan, wu fen’, as the Chinese would say. There was ‘yuen’ but not strong enough ‘fen’ to hold us together. We broke-up almost thirty years ago and are now happily married to other people. But we still talk to each other, once a month, by Skype.
To paraphrase Amy Liu, from the Community Services Center in Tienmu, ‘Yuan Fen’ has no direct translation in English. At the heart of the concept of ‘yuan fen’ is connection. Two souls are brought back together again, often because either the ‘yuan’ hasn’t ended or one of the two souls still have something to teach the other.
I rarely talk about ‘yuan fen’, for it is difficult for most Westerners/Christians to understand, let alone accept, In Taiwan, it is mostly used to describe the relationship between two people. ‘Yuan’ can be described as a feeling of knowing of being some-how connected to someone when you first meet them. The feeling is inexplicable because you don’t know or hardly know each other. It’s a feeling that comes from the gut, with no concrete reason to explain or support it. It’s not love at first sight, rather a deep sense of connection. ‘Fen’ is the process that allows this connection to grow into a relationship.
In almost sixty years, I’ve only experienced it three times.
I can hardly be described as "New Age’ or ‘spacey’. I am a Connecticut Yankee whose family settled in the State 140 years before the U.S. came together. I graduated from an East Coast boarding school and an Ivy League college, with a major which combined Accounting/Economics/Finance. But one day, as an undergraduate, I greeted an acquaintance in library and stopped to exchange some pleasantries. Standing quietly next to the acquaintance, was a pretty Thai graduate student in Anthropology. There were many pretty graduate students at my university, but I became aware, as I chatted to the acquaintance, that the student, standing next to her, was important and I was not to let her out of my life. Several months later we became a couple. Later I proposed twice. She said no. She also proposed twice, and I said no. We always seemed to be asking each at the wrong time. ‘You yuan, wu fen’, as the Chinese would say. There was ‘yuen’ but not strong enough ‘fen’ to hold us together. We broke-up almost thirty years ago and are now happily married to other people. But we still talk to each other, once a month, by Skype.
It seems to me that while it may have the deeper meanings you ascribe on one level, the way it’s ordinarily used is directly analogous to the English word “fate.”
What it really means is that there is no escape.
Hello Tempo Gain, . . .I would like to respectfully disagree with your comment: “ the way it’s ordinarily used is directly analogous to the English word “fate.”
“Ming” would be a better translation of fate . . . as in:
‘It’s my unfortunate fate to marry you, I must have done something wrong in a previous life’ (as my Taiwanese wife would say).
I dunno, I’ve most often heard people say “yuanfen” in connection with some fortuitous instance of interpersonal circumstances, “zheshi yuanfen” for example, which seems exactly like “it’s fate” to me.
“Fate” is used in a myriad of ways in English and could have several possible translations I think, but I was attempting to translate “yuanfen” as I have generally heard it in context.
This is just a feeling, correct me if I’m off base, but I haven’t spent much time around serious Buddhists, in which case there may be differences in the way this is often used?