Feeling Disillusioned as an Indian in Taiwan

I’ve been here a while now, almost three years barring some trips to the US. I’ve spent over 400 hours in professional Mandarin lessons (in addition to practice with Taiwanese ex-gf) and I’m fluent enough to handle most conversations. I spent a lot of time trying to dive deep into Taiwanese culture - I watch all the popular TV series, attend local music festivals and can even sing hundreds of Mandarin songs at the KTV. I play guitar, and I’ve also performed at some small events around the city. I have taken a few 台語 lessons as well, and can make very basic conversation with people if required. In short, I can hold a conversation about any topic with anyone here, and have been complimented about the same.

Despite all my efforts, I find it incredibly difficult to make good friends with locals in Taipei. I’m a pretty chill and outgoing guy - I never had difficulties making good friends in the other places I’ve lived at - namely India, US (SF, Boston, New York) and UK (London).

I am in my mid-20s. In addition to joining groups related to my interests (e.g. badminton, music, etc), I have attended a lot of events conducted in Mandarin for young professionals in Taiwan as well. I always take the initiative to meet new people and add their LINE account at the end. I follow-up with them as well, but only rarely get any interest in hanging out or doing any activities together.

One thing I’ve heard from a lot of locals here is that “they don’t want to be friends with Indians”. I don’t know where this sentiment came from, but it really hurts me. Girls have often told me that they don’t “expect me to respect them cause I’m Indian”, but I usually attributed that to prejudice and ignorance and just didn’t make a big deal out of it. But even guys have expressed similar sentiments.

When I used to do Language Exchange, people often ignored me because they assumed I suck at English and sound like Apu from The Simpsons. I have a neutral American accent since I spent nearly a decade there and found that people were more interested in chatting with me once I mentioned this aspect in my bio. And of course, no one wants to learn Hindi here so knowing that was literally of no use here in Taiwan.

If you Google 印度 on YouTube here, a large percentage of the top results would be news about women getting raped or molested. I’ve actually scrolled through news channels here and ran into segments about India which are literally the most backward, annoying shit you can imagine. Think snake charmers, kids slinging feces in slums, etc. People regularly ask me about the caste system and whether I am allowed to get close to the “service class” (服務業) in Taiwan. The media is actively tarnishing the reputation of an entire nation. I never felt remotely this way in multicultural countries such as the US or UK :cry:

It’s come to the point where I feel like I need to explain myself when I meet new people. I feel handicapped by my “Indian”-ness, and whatever prejudices and stereotypes that comes with in Taiwan. I’m tired of keeping a positive outlook when meeting a new person when I know that with very high probability he/she will never want to meet me again.

When I talk to my Caucasian male friends, they seem to be having a much better time. At least girls seem to be more interested in being friends with them. I’m not talking about dating, because that’s a whole different conversation, but life just generally seems easier for my Caucasian friends who aren’t nearly as fluent as me in Mandarin. I’m sure we have a common set of problems that are faced by most foreigners in Taiwan, but at least people don’t think of them as rapists and molesters and “engineers who smell like curry” all the time…

I know this is a fucked up irrational thought, and it’s been ephemeral for me because I’m proud of my heritage, but I’ve actually wished that I was white sometimes due to these experiences. I’ve never had these thoughts outside Taiwan…

I became eligible for the APRC last week. I should be excited… but I’m not. I’m starting to look at jobs in EU, UK and US these days. I’ve already started ruing the fact that the hours I spent getting to know the culture and languages will all go to waste once I move out and lose touch…

Anyway, sorry for the rant. I hope venting out my frustrations doesn’t end up with me getting trolled into oblivion here. Maybe this will help some other south asians in Taiwan realize that they’re not alone… it’s really a struggle

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Wow. Mandarin is my first language and I grew up in Asia. Guess how many Mandarin and Cantonese songs I can sing?

Zero.

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I’m actually super into the Indie Music scene here. I picked up a lot of Mandarin in my early learning days just by listening to bands like Deca Joins, Sweet John (甜約翰), The Chairs etc.

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Are you sure you’re hanging out with the right crowd? Usually the people who are into KTV and Indie music would not be friends with engineers.

Have you tried making friends with teachers? Maybe join some game nights?

Don’t worry many spend decades doing all that and feel the same way. Have you tried the Costco vanilla ice cream with chocolate cake and rum? That will make everything alright I promise you

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That’s a ridiculous assumption…unless it’s true.

Well, I’m a software engineer who has these hobbies… I’m lucky enough to have good work-life balance and I spend a lot of time exploring my other interests (music, guitar, sports). I’m not sure why my 9-5 day job would affect others willingness to become friends with me if we have common interests…

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It’s true, and it’s not an assumption, so… Not ridiculous.

Common interest is one thing, but are you able to hold deep, intellectual conversations with your KTV friends?

OK, anonymous internet guy. :ok_hand:

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@springonion

Do you know for a fact that they assumed this (i.e. has someone admitted this) or is this your assumption of what they are assuming?

If the latter, that is tragically hard on yourself.

Local news is always toxic shit, it has to be to garner the attention. Additionally, there’s probably some agenda behind it, because economically India shits all over Taiwan on the technology front, and has a lot more potential, so they’d not want to be too complimentary…

It’s not a waste, I’m sure there’s a lot more value in the experience than what you feel right now, especially once the rose-tinted glasses kick in after you leave, but everything runs its course, and maybe you’re bored of the experience and it’s now time to leave? Leaving and starting a new chapter should not be interpreted as a negative thing mentally, it often is, but it’s an ending and a beginning.

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You are right, and in the long run probably have little to no reason to stay here.
I have been here on and off for 17 years, roughly a third of my life, i have no close TW friends.
I find people friendly, but very closed, i have good acquaintances at work, but no real friendshsips like i have with foreigners.
If you like the life style here, stay, otherwise, you can find better options out there.

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How is my anonymity relevant to this discussion? You’re anonymous too.

Do you know for a fact that they assumed this (i.e. has someone admitted this) or is this your assumption of what they are assuming?

Several people have admitted this. “I usually don’t message Indians because I can’t understand their accent”.

I also ran A/B tests on my profile on Language Exchange apps and FB groups. When I mentioned “neutral American accent” and “studied in the US” I got 5x more responses on a post I made in a FB group. NGL, it made me hate myself :face_vomiting:

You can also just scroll through the Language Exchange in Taiwan group on FB and see for yourself. Posts made my Caucasian males get orders of magnitude higher engagement (likes, comments) compared to posts made my South Asian males, even if the content of the post is exactly the same. I have some pieces of evidence (screenshots) saved on my phone as well, lmk if you want to see them.

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You’re right in general, but the funny thing is that the local news in India has been extremely positive about Taiwan in recent years. Mostly because they see China as a big common enemy. Diplomatic ties are also improving at a fast pace. They just opened a new TECC in Mumbai (the third “embassy”) few months ago.

The crap clickbait content that local news show here is so damn unwarranted at this point.

A bit off topic, but are there any TV shows you recommend? My Chinese is pretty good, and I speak exclusively Chinese at work and at home, but I’ve never bothered watching any of Taiwan’s movies or TV shows without subtitles. Anywhere to start? Not looking for anything romantic.

It sounds like in that case you’re basing a lot of your issues on local and social media. Two active and well-known shitholes.

Turn it off in the first instance, and go from there, because it sounds like you’re prejudicing against yourself internally. Accept the fact that the sources are bullshit, let it go and stop looking at them, hold onto that mentality for two weeks, and see how you feel. If you feel the same based on real life interactions (i.e. not the fucking internet) then time to leave.

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I don’t see any irrational thoughts here. I share all of the above with you as a Middle-easterner except my Mandarin is nonexistent. I love Taiwan and Taiwanese though and I love living here.

I think where we differ is that my life motto is the same as average Taiwanese. Live and let live. Their actions are not out of malice just pure ignorance. They aren’t going to bother me so I don’t care. I just go back home to my lovely girlfriend, give her a kiss and start another EUIV campaign.

People that know me interact with me same as anyone else as far as I can tell though. Coworkers, friends, friend-in-laws and even the community manager guy.

I know you can make it work here and have a great life but you know what? It shouldn’t be all on you. You shouldn’t have to fight. If it’s not working go somewhere else. Do think hard and try to get out of the rut before making any hard to reverse decisions though.

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Thanks, that’s good advice.

I am not basing my thoughts on social media. I’m stating that they are the reason why my experiences with hundreds of locals here have been abysmal. I’ve been proactive and tried hard for three whole years before making this post. You can scroll through my profile history and see for yourself.

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