"Fitting In" in Taiwan (dealing with Discrimination)

Taiwan Discrimination in Taiwan
21

I’m from UK and came here with my Taiwanese wife 4-years ago. I found it difficult to settle in (still do I suppose). It does get better though, and you get more used to it too. I live in the north and I don’t know that it would be different up here. I think that when it gets into winter you’ll be glad to be based in the south.

In my experience some of that 85% group are a bit shy/nervous/afraid of you. They’ve not necessarily got any prejudice against you they might just be worried that their English isnt very good (although it might be better than your mandarin - don’t know you but my mandarin is ropey) and they don’t want to feel embarrassed if you talk to them and they don’t understand.

Advice - be outgoing when your out and about, try your best even if it’s not your natural personality type. You’ve got to make some first moves. And don’t feel held back if you’re Mandarin isnt up to scratch, people won’t expect you to speak Mandarin. Taiwanese people don’t generally go around smiling at people so the 5% that are might be people who are hoping you’ll engage/interact with them in some way. Take the time if you can to say hi, it’s a long shot that any will become lasting friends but maybe a few will and it might help your frame of mind.

Also, try and find some expat friends near where you live. I know that’s probably not what you came here for but it’s good to share some experiences over a beer or three.

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22

Par for the course I’d say, pick your race.

23

As you can see from the other response on here, I got actual answers from other people on here. Stop.

24

Being suspicious of outsiders and being extremely clannish is the way in most parts of the world. It’s an evolutionary survival mechanism. We don’t just throw off such things overnight. Or we do, and then we live in a big city where everyone is superficially friendly to each other but can’t even muster enough interest to lift their heads from their smart phones in their atomised lives to go and visit their elderly mother in a nursing home more than once a month. You take the good with the bad.

How do you survive being an outsider in Taiwan in the long term? You move back to wherever you’re from so that you’re an insider. Otherwise, you become a weird old expat who hangs out drinking with a bunch of other weird old expats he actually has nothing in common with so that he doesn’t look as sad as a weird old expat who drinks by himself.

/cynicism

In the short to medium term, one of the best ways of making friends or fitting in is joining a sporting club or some other activity. You have something instantly in common with others and because (at least some of) the terms of engagement exist beyond culture, you start on a more even footing, and so can/should be judged accordingly.

25

Staring back doesn’t usually work in my experience. Try smiling. If they smile back, great. If not, then just go on your merry way.

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27

I go hiking outdoors and cycle. Suggest that you get some hobbies. You meet people with similar tastes. Not sure about south Taiwan. Taiwan is good for outdoors stuff. So maybe try that. You’ll also get some sun which improves hormonal levels and should improve your mood.

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Oh that’s great advice!
I have been going to the gym more and more. They have a nice one close to where I live, but I will also try going outside more.

29

@nonredneck and @Andrew0409 both mentioned it, pick up a new hobby or bring forth an old hobby!

Not sure if you’re into the whole triathlon kind of thing and not sure where you are exactly, but there’s a huge group of foreigner guys (and gals) in Taichung that regularly meet and train together.

A little insight from me, I was in a similar situation not long ago. I was born in the states, but spent my summers in Taipei. So, I look and speak as if I’m from here, but I always felt like an outsider when I met my gf’s friends and since I didn’t grow up here, I pretty much had no friends. This had to change.

I went with my hobbies of gaming and tennis. Gaming didn’t get far because the game that I play is played by nobody in TW. So I went with tennis. I soon found out that the community was full of old guys that liked to bully the younger crowd JUST because they were older and used that as an excuse.

I finally picked up cycling (which I never thought I would ever do because my old bike in the states has been collecting dust since 2001) and after 2 years of getting into the sport, I can say it’s one of the best decisions I’ve made. I have made great friends both foreigner, local and in different age groups as well. I never thought I could get along with someone that are 10 years older or 10 years younger than me, but cycling makes it reality.

Sorry for the long reply, but in response to people looking/staring at you weirdly, have you considered, they are maybe thinking “Hey look, new guy, I’ve never seen him around before”. On top of that, locals do like to look at stare at anything that’s out of the ordinary. So, maybe it’s not you!

Give it some more time, I’m sure things will pick up. Make sure you share your feelings with the wifey too, she’s the one that understands Taiwan and understands you the most, right?

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All of the west cost of Taiwan has a severe air pollution problem according to international standards,
wait till autumn and winter comes , summer is the best time of year air pollution wise.

I’ll give it to you straight as well, the south has more hicks per square meter and a lot of people are not used to interacting with foreigners let alone white people (last bit is basically true everywhere in Taiwans). It’s supposed to go with increased friendliness, not sure how much that will benefit you if you can’t speak Taiwanese or mandarin.

Kaohsiung is a huge city but it’s pretty provincial. Personally I wouldn’t mind living in Kaohsiung for a while due to the cheap lifestyle, access to Kending, more space , good winters (excepting the air pollution). But I’ve been around a while …

31

I could write a book on how hard it is for foreigners to do things here, but at the same time, I chose to be here. When it gets under my skin, I have to remember that.
It is really hard to describe. It is fear. One time I walked into my accountant’s office, and I saw her assistant jump out of her shoes. Sometimes I’m openly discriminated against, and other times I’m warmly welcomed. Once I speak to them in Mandarin, the situation gets better. They ask me questions that in the US would be intrusive, but I just chat along and answer indirectly as they do. Like for “What is your salary?”, I’ll say “Enough, too much, or too little”. And then I’ll ask them an intrusive question like “How much do you weigh?” Keep a smile, say hello in Mandarin and you will find some really nice people here. Since you’re in the southern part, you may run across people who converse in Taiwanese only - especially the older folks.
Taipei has more foreigners, but probably are more vocal about telling foreigners what they think. I live in Taipei now for work, and used to live in Tainan. Tainan has so much better weather - not as hot or cold and dreary. People are more laid back in Tainan and the cost of housing is so much cheaper.
The media puts out biased news reports and I think that contributes to the misconceptions about what Americans think and do. (As if Americans are all the same…)

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Thanks everyone for all your help! Your advice has really made a difference! I appreciate you all taking the time!

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Yeah…you do. Back home.
Things are different in Taiwan. It’s not your home culture. Seriously, I’m not trying to be mean, but everyone wants to ignore the fact that it is a different culture, and that means DIFFERENT, down to body language, expressions, and so on.

Don’t tell me the meaning of a smile is universal, either. A smile in Taiwan frequently means embarrassment, not happiness. These things are not universal by any means.

Most people who “ignore” you are most likely afraid they will be inadequate to the task of communicating with you. They’ve all studied English for umpty-ump years, but most can’t do a darned thing with it. They are insecure. It’s like they say about insects: they’re more afraid of you than you are of them (though I take exception to the really big flying roaches in Taiwan on that one…)

If you want to be acknowledged by culturally Taiwanese people, play their game. Make eye contact and say pleasantly, in Mandarin or Taiwanese, “Hot, ain’t it?” (the universal greeting for most of the year, obviously don’t try this in January!) In Chinese, the correct thing to say is always the painfully obvious thing. So you can also go with “Heavy rain, innit?” or some other appropriate remark. Even saying “Hello” in English would probably do the trick, honestly. Even the most English-challenged usually know that one.

As has been said, there are that 1% of people who just aren’t going to want to have anything to do with you, just like there are a number of foreigners who don’t want to have anything to do with Taiwanese people.

It’s not too hard to get people to exchange surface pleasantries with you. If you want to get into deep conversation on “meaningful issues” that might be harder. But as long as you’re content with “That’s NT$24, your change is NT$6” and stuff like that, it’s not that hard. Just assume they are starting from a position of paralyzing English-motivated fear. My experience has been that assuming the best of others in a cross-cultural situation is usually a good starting point.

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34

Indeed, and a good amount of Taiwanese who want nothing to do with random Taiwanese people, etc.

35

Good point about Taiwanese people ignoring each other as well. I used to feel bad about how cold everyone seemed towards me in our apartment’s elevator, until I was in there with a few people from different apartments, and realized that “coldness” is just how a lot of people typically deal with neighbors.

36

Yeah I don’t know my neighbours at all. Never talked to them.

37

Ran, what do you mean by get bullied by old taiwanese tennis players? They won’t share the courts?

38

If you feel like someone is giving you a funny look, or being intentionally not friendly, my advice is that firstly you may be mistaken, and interpreting their demeanor to have a message that they never intended. Secondly people in Taiwan are less likely to see staring as rude or aggressive, compared to your own cultural compass. Thirdly, sometimes a neutral expression on someones face can look like a negative expression, they might just look grumpy but not actually be grumpy. Thirdly, if you imagine that people are giving you bad looks then just dismiss the thought: that person has no power over you and it makes no sense to guess what they might be thinking. Finally pick an old person that you suspect is giving you a grumpy look. Smile and say hello. Hey presto that grumpy old person is now smiling back at you. Also finally finally, be aware that some Taiwanese tend to be appearance orientated, so if you look scrubby people will treat you in a different way compared to if you look all cleaned up.

Bottom line, just be yourself, try not to be too self conscious, and dont worry too much about how people perceive you. Be confident.

I have thought about these things myself, and I guess visible foreigners in any country are likely to be conscious of these kinds of things. So its a valid concern. But I wouldn’t over think it.

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I[quote=“Kowtow, post:37, topic:154765, full:true”]
Ran, what do you mean by get bullied by old taiwanese tennis players? They won’t share the courts?
[/quote]

I actually want to know too haha.

40

I’m on the East coast and encounter many people who stare or look away as we meet. If the situation allows I greet these people, and the most common response is a huge smile and a returned greeting. Old and young, many are truly shy and very few are hostile.

41

I haven’t had any problems with unfriendliness. I don’t recall anyone giving me glares but certainly curious or bewildered looks. I’m a local curiosity, even the hobos take an interest in me.