Huh, that wasn’t the point of my comment
This may sound weird. Just ignore them back. But when given the opportunity, do be nice or curteuous. Holding the door open or complimentary comments like, cool haircut, nice tattoo, awesome…gogoro can help you build your social acceptance. I usually am very open and talkative. But that doesn’t jive here in Taiwan. Essentially, watch shows like Buffy the vampire slayer. Act like them, sans the supernatural vampire stuff. I hope this will help.
I believe the current slang term for this phenomenon is “resting bitch face”.
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scratch that
Huh!? I think you need to elaborate a bit on that.
Not true. If a foreigner gets into a physical confrontation with a local, even if it’s something locals commonly fight over all the time, other locals witnesses who happen to be nearby will also start attacking you as well. Even if it’s not your fault. You may be the victim, but you will be the one to pay dearly if you dare stand up for yourself.
Any local who causes you grief will always win. Welcome to Asia.
Really? Where are you from?
Canada. Why does it matter? All I’m saying is that when you are in a country like Taiwan, Korea, China, Thailand, or wherever, you have to yield, cower, and compromise. If you do get into a conflict with a local, especially if it’s a fist fight, or a shouting arguement that looks like it’s about to escalate into a fist fight, other locals will side with whoever the local is.
As rare as conflicts between locals and foreigners may be, I feel it’s important for every foreigner there is to understand this one fact. Because understanding this one fact alone in a nutshell will help you to understand their racial pride as well as where your place is in their society.
If I had time to explain one thing and just one thing only to any westerner who is thinking about going to Taiwan or any Asian country for their first time, this is the number one thing I would explain.
Well, I could not figure out any other country where confrontation against a class of people, whether it is racial or whatever, would not result in causing the minority a grief.
So is Canada such a nice place where it does not matter which group you belong to? Just asking.
if that was my country and an asian person for example got into a fight with a local person then no i don’t see 10 other local guys joining in to beat up the asian guy just because he is asian. i don’t think its as bad as it is in china here though, but its still a good bit of info to know. if things get physical nobody is going to back the foreigner.
Exactly my point. Because in western countries we are educated more on the concept of racial equality. We are taught to accept other skin colored people as our equals and that the skin color is the only difference.
The only thing I was trying to explain is why I disagree with the comment earlier which said that foreigners get away with murder on a daily basis.
If only that were true
I think you made a valid point somewhere up there about the nature of conflict between cultures in general, and I absolutely respect your disagreement. And I agree that one of the main things any expat should know about immersing themselves in another culture is that nobody is going to be on your side. Not in Russia, not in Puerto Rico, and certainly not in Taiwan. If you come over here without that knowledge, you’re fucked.
However… This has nothing to do with “education” or “racial equality”. It’s about conflict resolution in relation to culture. Perhaps Canadians are across-the-board more sensible and accepting of foreign cultures. It may be true. And it may eliminate a certain number of conflicts. But not all of 'em. If, for instance, I get into a scrap with a dude in Toronto, regardless of race, it’s generally speaking, mano-a-mano, unless he’s got some hothead friend who wants to smash a bottle over my head from behind. Pretty rare, but it happens. Anyway, this is how we fight. You got a problem? I got a problem. Let’s dance.
As @BHL4life touched on: Let’s say I’m with a couple of expat buddies, and during this fight I’m getting my ass kicked. The only time they are gonna get involved is when it looks like I’ve had enough. Again, these are playground rules that are ingrained in our culture. You fight fair, or…you don’t fight. Five guys pounding one little nerd is neither a conflict nor a resolution. It’s a beating.
Now, I’m not talking about all the YouTube brawls that have no clear ending. I’m not saying Americans invented the trashed KFC, but we do it better than anybody else.
Asians are well-educated about race and culture, it’s just that this is how they choose to do things. And they do it to themselves, too, which is really the fucking rub here. If two Taiwanese guys get into a fight, whoever has the most guanxi, or the most ready guanxi, is going to prevail. I’ve seen it happen time after time. Some dude is hitting on a chick in bar, and she’s there with a crew, so she belongs to them. The guys in her crew don’t like it, so they tell the guy to fuck off. He’s alone, but cocky and has a few under his belt. Next thing you know, six dudes from the crew are going to town on the solitary player. Foreigner or chinstrap from Nankou - same result.
…or… They wait until he leaves the club and ambush him with baseball bats.
Now, back to the foreigner getting away with shit around here. Your disagreement is supported by empirical evidence that foreigners get pinched for stuff all the time, so “murder” is hyperbole. I can’t describe in detail what I get away with every day, mainly because it would be foolish and unwise, but it’s mostly mundane and related to work. Basically, I’m not subject to 95% of my company’s rules and regulations.
Stay late for no reason? Not applicable to the foreigner.
Extra Saturday to make up for holiday? Only if the foreigner feels like it.
Mandatory six-hour luncheon circle jerk? Eh, he can come if he wants.
Must work a certain number of hours per day? Fat chance. I do what I want.
Made a mistake that would get a local fired in a heartbeat? Oh, he’s just a foreigner - he didn’t know.
I could go on, but bringing that theme into social interaction, I don’t really do a lot of shit that would get me into trouble in the first place. I don’t drive, so I’m denied that opportunity to be an asshole. I’m not involved with a local woman, so I get a major pass there. I mind my own business and conduct myself as if I were at home. However, I see lots of questionable behavior among my peers, and they’re still here, doing the same shit, even though everybody and their mother knows what’s going on. Are they allowed to continue these activities because they are foreigners? Yes, partially; but mainly because they have the guanxi of a local, which was bought and paid for.
So I believe that in general, as @Rocket has said time and time again, foreigners in Taiwan have very little to complain about. Conflict between foreigners and locals is absolutely rooted in race; but we have the ideological upper-hand. If, as you said, a person understands that you are going to be outnumbered at all turns, you can adjust your own strategies accordingly. Moreover, since you know that every little move you make is going to be scrutinized, because let’s face it, there’s nothing these people like more than ratting somebody out, you again, have the upper hand.
So in closing, I agree with part of your argument - that it’s you (and me) against them. To me, that was inherent in the gambit of moving here. Where we differ, I suspect, is that I just don’t have a problem with that arrangement.
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Actually conflict between a local and a foreign immigrant is not necessarily rooted in race. I completely disagree there. If two people get into a conflict, one is a foreigner and one is a local, it could be any common thing which many locals themselves fight over every day. Two people in a conflict where one is foreign, well the fact that the foreigner is angry at the Taiwanese person may have nothing to do with the fact he is Taiwanese. Or vice versa. The Taiwanese person could be angry at the foreigner for reasons that have nothing to do with the foreigner himself.
So I say this. Everyone in society knows not to get involved in a fight between two locals because they know it’s just a PRIVATE AFFAIR between the two individuals. A foreigner vs a local should not be any different.
Forgive me, but living in China for the 4 years that I have been there I faced discrimination and I learned the hard way that white people aren’t the only one’s racist. (Of course where I come from, no white person dare say he’s racially proud). However before I went to China, I researched websites and blogs that give information with titles such as “10 things a foreigner should know before going to China”. And basically they will say things like “present a business card with two hands” “Do not stick your chopsticks in a bowl of rice with the ends straight up” “Don’t get angry in public” All these things like “don’t do this or you must do that or how to greet people” or whatever. Many of them will also talk about how you should behave in terms of being polite and everything.
But none of those websites I ever researched ever explained the things that I explain in this video I made below
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG3_2UqeNfI
In any case, if you are a foreigner thinking about going to China or Taiwan for your first time, everything I explained in this video is what I had to learn the hard way.
I should have explained that the ESL industry doesn’t even really serve the local people. There’s nothing we can do that a local fluent in English can’t do. The ESL industry is nothing but a legal scam $$$
And if any of you make any online blogs or videos talking about what a person should know before going to Asia, please do your viewers a favour and actually warn them of all their compromises the way I do in the video I made. Because there is nothing more important that a new arrival should know before coming to Asia. Everything I talk about is way too overlooked.
Oh and one last thing, get an asian silicone mask that looks life like, long sleeve shirt (if it’s summer make sure it’s thin), and pants. This way if you are tired of sticking out, people refusing to sit next to you on the bus or locking their doors when they see you walk by or whatever, wearing an asian silicone mask will solve those problems.
I keep hearing the whole “you’ll always be an outsider”, but frankly I think it depends who you interact with. You can find good friends everywhere, and it’s a result of the relationship between individuals.
Looking at society as a whole, I feel like an outsider in my own country as well. Nobody really gives a shit about you unless they know you. The government doesn’t give a shit about me.
The whole “don’t get too comfortable, you’re just a foreigner” is a dumb and self-defeating attitude to have. Yes, you may have to leave, you can get into trouble. You can also get in trouble anywhere else.
Feeling at home depends on your state of mind and expectations. Don’t let other people decide how you should feel about living in a place.
Those examples … how about just not spitting on people or getting into shouting matches or even physical fights? I wouldn’t do that anywhere with the expectation that I won’t get into trouble for it. If you behave like a moron and expect to get away with it because of white privilege, then yes, that’s not going to work out. But who gives a shit about those people, they deserve whatever hardship they get.
Just don’t be an asshole, treat others with respect, and you will most likely be fine. Sometimes bad shit happens and you can’t do anything about it, but again, that applies wherever you live.
WTF
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Care to explain this in more detail? What does “bought and paid for” mean in this context?
don;t be a dick is all well and good until you get into some trouble that was not your fault. and yes in these situations its good to know that when the shit hits the fan 10 guys are probably going to be jumping you. sure its not as bad as china, where nationalism is off the scale but its not just the same as anywhere else. lets not forget that MRT racist video where the whole carriage sat on their ass and said nothing while that fat guy went on his threatening rant. i’ve seen the same kind of videos from my home country and people do stick up for the foreigners in that situation.
and who really whats wrong with being the outsider? its fine, there are good points to it too, look on the bright side. its better to be aware of your status. ignorance is great until reality slaps you in the face.
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Be an individual.
That’s the moment where you back out of the situation or, if you really can’t, get outside help to negotiate a solution. I don’t know, maybe it doesn’t work for other people. I just never seem to get into the kind of trouble where people start ganging up on you and beat you up. Maybe it’s just because I don’t do certain things other people do, I don’t know.
It’s good to be aware of the situation. I just don’t see it as a fixed status thing. I’ve seen too many people help me out even though I was the outsider, or possibly because of that.