And you still turned up to this court case?
Ah well…we all do things we shouldn’t have done at some point or another. Seeing as you’re going through all this, I really hope you get some sort of outcome that you feel is acceptable. Best of luck. 
Yeah. It’s Forumosa. I know.
You weren’t there, la! Look, I said I was stupid (as in careless), and if you read the thread I’ve explained my state of mind at the time more than once. I wasn’t THAT angry. Come on. This is such a commonplace gesture that most Westerners toss it around with hardly a second thought. Maybe you’re Taiwanese and don’t realize this fact.
Most of the neighborhood hates her. She makes it her business to get in people’s faces and annoy them. She has put ropes across the stairways that the neighborhood residents use every day. Her and the Guanli have sued each other many times already. In my country she would be known as a busybody parasite and the courts would always be looking to throw her out, not entertain her complaints. The Guanli staff say she makes a good portion of her income by harassing people, suing them and settling out of court. And I didn’t know who she was or much about her at the time. If I had, your advice would have been followed.
And I didn’t throw a tantrum. She does that – in court, I kid you not. When she accosted me, I politely told her my reasoning and intentions (more than once) and took my leave of her. All four witnesses eagerly agreed to testify to this. Then, she hollered after me, I turned, she pointed a camera at me and I reacted just as countless people before me have done. ( 
) So if I may insult you, kindly shut up already.
Is that what you hope? Do you like this law or something? Do you support a law that is only suitable for a police state? Well, then I hope a packed 747 nearing the end of a long haul flight from Argentina accidentally discharges its latrine while flying over you, as you drive your convertible through the Nevada desert.
My wife rocks:
If that doesn’t exonerate me, then I just don’t understand Taiwan.
It’s a good advice to follow when you don’t know who you are dealing with, too!
No, it’s what I know. You hope your tenacity can have an impact on the law in Taiwan. Do you know how laughable that is? 
Rob, I think you are being too hard on the guy. The only REALLY stupid thing he did was not write a proper apology-all of this would have probably been over…maybe. But we have all gotten mad and done much worse than give someone the bird-or at least I know I have. The larger point here is that one little mistake that hurts absolutely no one can be a criminal offense. Sure, I understand why they have this law-they don’t want people going around escalating minor disagreements, etc. However, this is a little over the top as far as I’m concerned. Someone was telling him he couldn’t go somewhere and they took a picture after they acted like a total cunt. The law is being used by this angry person who is probably really mad at the government for giving people directions to what she erroneously considers her property. She walks into court and bold-face lies about even receiving an apology, and the judge overlooks it. Why does the judge just not rule that he apologized? Why doesn’t he even consider it? I think the OP is getting fucked over, personally, regardless of a couple of stupid (which he admits) mistakes. There is a really big difference between this case (where no one was harmed and no real harm was intended) and the one mentioned about the guy blocking the ambulance. Let’s give dear ol’ peter a break!
I disagree. I wouldn’t be so hard on him if he understood that what he did was stupid and what he is doing now is even more stupid.
In Taiwan and many other parts of the world, flipping the bird is a highly provocative insult. It serves no purposes other than to escalate a situation and possibly land the perpetrator in trouble, like in this case.
I agree that we all do stupid things sometimes, but I think it helps to have the necessary level of maturity to eventually recognize your own stupidity. I may seem overly harsh to Peter, but he doesn’t seem to get it. Instead, he continues to behave stupidly, just piling on one stupid move after another. What he needs to do now is try to calm the waters, apologize and show the court that he understand that what he did was wrong and that he genuinely regrets it. But that’s not Peter’s plan at all. In another thread, he’s gathering images of people flipping the bird which he plans to use as a defense for his stupid behavior in court. 
One stupid move after another…
It doesn’t matter if people use this gesture lightly all over the world. This is Taiwan, and in Taiwan this gesture is considered a severe insult. Despite this irrefutable fact, Peter still wants to stand up for his actions in court, and best of all, he hopes that by doing so he can influence the legal system. 
I’m not Taiwanese, but you’re right, most Taiwanese people will not share your opinion. Don’t worry about my nationality influencing my opinion on the matter, worry about the fact that the prosecutor in charge of your case WILL most certainly be Taiwanese.
I’m not intentionally being hard on you, Peter. You are not thinking straight and you are on a collision course.
Good luck. I think you will need it.
I believe I read in other posts that local judges have a very hard time deciding what is offensive when a Western gesture or comment is made, and that much of the defence is based on proving that it’s not as offensive–or meant to be as offensive–as prosecutors might have you believe. Isn’t that what Peter’s doing here?
It’s not as absurd as you make it out to be. I’ve seen laws that have changed because of tenacious foreigners. I totally support dearpeter in his quest, but that doesn’t mean I’m totally confident he’ll win. He’s fighting the good fight, and you’re just pooh-poohing him, which is the easy thing to do, but it doesn’t make anyone’s life better.
I’ve given the finger to deserving recipients in the past and although I’ve pretty much all but stopped (I use other gestures to express my displeasure now), it’s entirely possible that a suitable occasion will warrant it again sometime in the future. It would be nice if that didn’t result in a mandatory court appearance.
Fighting for the right to flip the bird at people over a closed road/property dispute is fighting a good fight? No, it’s infantile stupidity. And fighting this in a Taiwanese court, no less, is a train wreck waiting to happen, in my opinion.
Really? Which ones?
I’m intrigued to see where you fine gentlemen are going with this debate. 
Personally, I think it would be nice if it resulted in a conviction. There is no need for such violence. I hate violence. You’ll notice that I always stay away from insulting people on this forum. I find it immature and unnecessary. Maybe someone can explain to me what benefits they get from flipping the bird at someone other than to appease a malfunctioning brain.
Maoman, don’t you ban people who tell others to go fuck themselves on this forum? What’s the difference? Responding to another poster with a picture of someone flipping the bird would get me banned, wouldn’t it?
Violence? Are you seriously suggesting that flipping the bird is a form of violence?
An insult is a form of violence, yes, definitely.
That’s a VERY liberal definition of violence, if you ask me.
And what of calling people infantile and stupid, as you have done continuously throughout this thread?
RobinTaiwan, methinks you’ve lost the plot here, ol’ buddy.
That wasn’t directed at you. I posted it because it was relevant to the thread. I NEVER use that gesture, although apparently Mr. Ma does. Maybe in his years of living overseas and traveling, he never clued into its meaning. Oh well, lets forgive him that, though surely in my case, I know you’ll agree, ignorance is no excuse.
Look, I’m done “debating” with you. I really give up. You act like you think laws that clearly infringe on human rights are a good thing. I think you’re just putting this attitude on to try and get my goat somehow, so that’s it. I’m gonna now be passive toward you, just as you condemn me for not being so toward some person you’ve never met but automatically assume is more righteous than me. I just can’t buy your fecal wares anymore. Maybe you could successfully hawk them in North Korea.
Oh, dear me! Utterly brilliant! :roflmao: I’m a big fan of Robintaiwan, but that was incredibly funny. :bravo:
Can you provide a quote? I’m calling a course of action infantile and stupid, not a person. Arguably, there is a fine line between an insult and an opinion in a debate such as this one and not everyone can tell the difference, quite evidently.
If I told you to go fuck yourself, it would be an insult. But if the next guy says that it’s stupid an immature to talk to people like that, it’s merely an opinion.
If you say something that someone says is infantile stupidity, or that what someone does is stupid, then you’re insulting the person who said it. It doesn’t matter that you didn’t say, in exact words, “You are stupid and infantile.” This isn’t a court of law where wisdom of legal process can get you off the hook. You said you avoid insults, but you don’t. What you say is nuts. You’re being completely hypocritical.
I think you intended to look like the wisest person on the thread, but you’ve stupidly gone and made yourself look like the most idiotic.