Whether it is rightfully her property has been under dispute for years. The confrontation occurred on a thoroughfare that the public uses and has been using for years to access a stream which Hsintian City actually promotes as a natural area ideal for firefly viewing. There is no other access. This is (possibly) why the tresspass charge was dropped, although it might have been because someone else had spray-painted “public land” on the same fence on which she had spray-painted “private land.”
Apparently it is NOT legal to photograph people without permission in Taiwan. I also assumed it was, so I never tried to stop her. My instinct (not a good one) was to “ruin” her photo by making an obscene gesture. But as I was doing this I was thinking she was allowed to attempt to photograph me if she wanted to.
The whole public/private thing is… if she believes the land is hers, how can she claim “public” insult? This line of reasoning is favored by my lawyer, not me. But I guess he has gotten me to go along with it.
Regarding perjury, I suppose that might apply only to the accused? Honestly, I can’t figure out that one. I reckon in a Western courtroom the judge would have tossed out her case the moment she showed herself to be deceitful, but my lawyer says that doesn’t matter in Taiwan. Maybe perjury is a crime but there is no equivalent to “contempt of court.” At any rate, I never had to swear to tell the truth or anything, but that hardly means honesty isn’t expected. But what I can say is that I behaved with a lot more decorum in the courtroom than she did. She got all shrill, raised her voice, acted dramatic, spoke out of turn and made everyone realize she was the aggressive party, but, like I said, that didn’t seem to matter. It felt like both prosecutor and judge were making it their job to see if there was any possible way that I could be guilty of transgressing the law as written, and if so to punish me. The character of the “victim” didn’t appear to be a factor at all.
If I were the judge, I would assume the law meant unprovoked aggression and entertain my defenses that she was provoking me. Maybe the next judge will be more open to that point of view. Basically, even the prosecutor knew she was in the wrong, but felt that I should have kept my cool and respected the authority that she was claiming to have and just left the area. i.e. I wasn’t non-confrontational enough in his eyes, so he felt it worthwhile to proceed with the case. How a country tolerates prosecutors pursuing obviously frivolous cases is beyond me. Maybe it has something to do with their [strike]training[/strike] testing.
Just a question: Why didn’t you just wave at her, pretend to not understand any Chinese and just walk briskly away? If she pursued you, camera in hand, you could have galloped off, then if she tried to sue you for trespassing you could still have said, you didn’t understand what she was on about (and as you’ve said, her case that it’s trespassing wouldn’t have held up anyway), and ran off because you thought she was going to attack you. That way you may still have been able to (counter) sue her for “attacking” you and emotional distress etc etc legal crap etc.
I used to flip off other motorists etc when I first came here (sadly, SA drivers are very road rage afflicted - although, fortunately, that’s mostly out of me now) until I read on the Flob about guys being chased by teams of blokes with baseball bats etc. And there lies another weird thing. Seems if you get attacked by a gang wielding weapons everyone (including coppers) look on helplessly with (almost) no hope of prosecuting, but if you retaliate and beat the bejezus out of them/him there will surely be video evidence to land you in hot water. As a result, despite my temper, I reign myself in. Sometimes I’ll let fly with an Afrikaans “Gaan naai jou ma, jou f**en pos!” or something, but that’s about it (fair enough if they Kao Bei! me in Taiwanese).
I’m not relating this to say, “You should know better!” blah blah blah, or to ride in on a high horse (because I’ve had my fair share of trouble over here due to not thinking, impulse or whatever), but it does seem as if you’re somehow enjoying this legal episode on some level. Apologies if I’m wrong on that count. Personally, I hate conflict and drawn out sagas, and would prefer the quickest cheapest fix. I’d just go with RobinTaiwan’s advice and sort it out pronto, but that’s just me.
FWIW, I think this bird is probably enjoying the hell out of the process, too. Imagine the stories she gets to relate to her cronies about the Foreign Devil flipping her off, apologized and how she “showed him” by not accepting it! Must make for interesting gossip in the park during arse slap exercises.
The only thing that saved my a*s from going through the same thing is the quick thinking and Taiwanese response of my wife … completely different from us, foreigners …
Whether she owns the property or not is only relevant to trespassing charges, if applicable. You are mixing things up. This is not about private or public property. It’s about privacy. Having a private or public altercation has nothing to do with who owns the land beneath your feet. Think about a private conversation vs an open conversation. An open conversation is, essentially, a public conversation. Your physical location is irrelevant.
A. Not smart enough.
B. Didn’t realize giving her the finger could have any repercussions. I was trying to “ruin” her photo. That’s the thought that was in my head. In retrospect, it wasn’t a good choice of action, I know.
Actually, thanks. Though I had heard the song before, it now strikes me that it might be useful. My lawyer has instructed me to assemble a collection of photos of people giving the finger in various senses. We will be partly arguing, as I did already, this gesture is quite vague in meaning. i.e. My meaning was “Don’t take my picture.”
Maybe I can play the song in court up to the point he gives the chin flick and ask, “Would this gesture also be defined as criminally insulting?”
My understanding is more or less the same as RobinTaiwan’s: if other people were present and saw you flip her off, it was public. Who owns the land is irrelevant.
Are you sure that you are understanding your lawyer’s argument correctly? If so, it sounds like you should consider getting another lawyer. At the very least, you should ask him to communicate his argument and the legal basis for it more clearly.
I was chatting to a professor of education about this topic the other day and according to her the punishment for public insult will vary according to what position the person you insult is in society, i.e. insulting a prof. would be more serious than a cleaner.
I thought for a moment until I realised…That makes perfect sense in Taiwan!
That’s certainly true for the defamation/libel/slander law (A.310) as it is applied. The reason being, the bigger the rep, the bigger the damage to the rep. It does make a bit of sense. This principle is not applied so much to the insult law (A.309); most people are given fairly similar sentences. I’d say level of contrition and the situation itself are more important. Of course, if you flip off a true big-wig, you’re probably gonna get it worse.
I still think the main reason that first the prosecutor and then the judge were quite hard on me is because I look so scary in the photo itself. And the fact that I refused to lie in court and say I was any sorrier than I really felt. Sorry, but I’m a man of principle.
And thanks for enlightening me on the cactus! I’ll do my best never to use it on Forumosa. :liar:
It will be interesting to see where that takes you, but it’s not very promising, if you want my opinion. What you did wasn’t smart. I think you mentioned that yourself. Why fight it if you know it was wrong? You have strange principles.
Are you kidding me? I don’t think I did anything wrong. I admit it wasn’t smart to let someone photograph me in that pose, but AGAIN, I wasn’t aware of any law against gesturing when angry. I think this was all in my OP. And I believe you also mentioned your opinion that it was stupid more than once. Along with many other people. And then some more other people. And then some more…
If my tenacity ends up getting this law publicized more or contributes to its being struck down, I’ll be sure to not give you any credit for that. You ain’t no Rosa Parks.
Saying “I am sorry,” to her would be lying; that’s what I meant. I thought I was clear. Maybe I should change professions.
Well, only if you’re Taiwanese.
Next time I should remember to ask someone their occupation before I stick my finger up at them then should I? That poses rather a few difficulties when travelling at speed though. I wonder if there are allowances for such a circumstance?
