[quote=“alidarbac”]There’s something I don’t understand. How many other people were in this class? 2? 27? I’d certainly be pissed if I were a Taiwanese student in that class and because one foreigner added in, suddenly everyone has to speak in English.
Dude, if you specialize in Taiwan/China studies and you can’t speak enough Chinese to keep up with a poli sci class, it’s going to be difficult for you to find a teaching job. If you don’t specialize in Taiwan/China studies, people are going to wonder why the hell you got a Ph.D in Taiwan, and it’s going to be difficult for you to find a teaching job.[/quote]
I agree wholeheartedly. It was the student’s job to figure out the language in which the class was taught, and to hire a translator/ make arrangements with the professor for exams if necessary, especially in a PhD programme. It’s ridiculous to ask that the language of instruction be changed because ONE student isn’t fluent, particularly if the language of instruction is the official language in the country of study. Try walking into a French university and demanding that a French history course be taught in English. See what happens. :roflmao: Why should it be any different here?
[quote=“Mother Theresa”]True, but they shouldn’t have given him erroneous information when he was considering applying for the program.
I wouldn’t title this a “scandal” as the OP did. I’d call it par for the course.[/quote]
They accepted him as an English speaker. It was his responsibility as a potential student to do research before enrolling in the programme. Unless they told him specifically that the course in question was taught in English, I wouldn’t say he was misinformed. (Did I miss something?)
[quote=“nemesis”][quote=“alidarbac”]There’s something I don’t understand. How many other people were in this class? 2? 27? I’d certainly be pissed if I were a Taiwanese student in that class and because one foreigner added in, suddenly everyone has to speak in English.
Dude, if you specialize in Taiwan/China studies and you can’t speak enough Chinese to keep up with a poli sci class, it’s going to be difficult for you to find a teaching job. If you don’t specialize in Taiwan/China studies, people are going to wonder why the hell you got a Ph.D in Taiwan, and it’s going to be difficult for you to find a teaching job.[/quote]
I agree wholeheartedly. It was the student’s job to figure out the language in which the class was taught, and to hire a translator/ make arrangements with the professor for exams if necessary, especially in a PhD programme. It’s ridiculous to ask that the language of instruction be changed because ONE student isn’t fluent, particularly if the language of instruction is the official language in the country of study. Try walking into a French university and demanding that a French history course be taught in English. See what happens. :roflmao: Why should it be any different here?[/quote]
This is a ridiculous local-sycophantic response. Fact is, the universities here are touting themselves as having all English programs and are actively seeking international students as well as sister-school relationships with institutions overseas based on this. If they weren’t hyping their supposedly English instructional programs, then there might be something to what you’re saying. If a French university proclaimed that a French history program was taught in English, and recruited internationally based on that, then you can be sure it would be taught in English as advertised. Here, however…
Yes, you did. Read the China Post article in the first post of this thread.
[quote=“The China Post”]He submitted all the required documents that included a 25-page research proposal and a statement clearly explaining that he did not speak or understand Chinese.
After the school’s Office of International Student Affairs confirmed that international graduate studies did not require the students to speak or understand Chinese, he was officially admitted to the program after completing all the necessary steps in December 2007. . .
On February 20, he immediately was faced with a thorny issue as the professor of one the program’s mandatory courses, Dr. Lee Pei-shan, only spoke to him in English during the opening minutes of the course, then switched to Chinese for the next hour.
After meeting with her and expressing his desire to learn and study in her class, he told The China Post that he was “coldly dismissed.”
“When I again expressed in the following class that I could not understand Chinese above the most basic level, she clearly stated: ‘That is not my problem,’” he recalled. . .[/quote]
nemesis wrote: [quote]I agree wholeheartedly. It was the student’s job to figure out the language in which the class was taught, and to hire a translator/ make arrangements with the professor for exams if necessary, especially in a PhD programme. It’s ridiculous to ask that the language of instruction be changed because ONE student isn’t fluent, particularly if the language of instruction is the official language in the country of study. Try walking into a French university and demanding that a French history course be taught in English. See what happens. :roflmao: Why should it be any different here?[/quote]
Did you read the article?
You have such a strong opinion about something you don’t have the facts straight on. You are implying things about my neighbor Terry that are simply not true.
Why are people on Forumosa so mean spirited?[/quote]
This is actually a good question, almas. I think a lot of expatriates are deeply unhappy people. Add to that relative anonymity and you can see the results…
Why are people on Forumosa so mean spirited?[/quote]
This is actually a good question, almas. I think a lot of expatriates are deeply unhappy people. Add to that relative anonymity and you can see the results…[/quote]
I don’t think people on Forumosa are particularly mean spirited. In many cases they’re quite the opposite in real life.
I do think quite a few people are mean spirited on Forumosa though. And on any Internet forum. Something about the brain’s empathy centre being switched off when you communicate online. Seriously. There was a study and everything!
Back on topic, that does suck for the student. It does sound as if he got a raw deal. Still, it’s worth remembering that staff in educational institutions all over the world tend to be laws unto themselves, regardless of language issues. Sometimes as a student you have to put aside your notions of what’s right, and how things should be, and just concentrate on doing whatever you have to do in order to get out of there with your bit of paper at the end. I wonder if all the “indirect”, diplomatic options were explored in this case before things got so badly out of hand. Not saying they weren’t. They may well have been. Just wondering, that’s all.
True enough. Making clear that you can’t function to the required level in Chinese right from the get-go, being assured by the university that the course is in English, plunking down your hard-earned on the strength of that… I don’t believe the “university” has a leg to stand on. He was ripped off. One way or the other, they took his cash and failed to deliver the goods.
True enough. Making clear that you can’t function to the required level in Chinese right from the get-go, being assured by the university that the course is in English, plunking down your hard-earned on the strength of that… I don’t believe the “university” has a leg to stand on. He was ripped off. One way or the other, they took his cash and failed to deliver the goods.[/quote]Well, sure. As I said, it sounds as if he got a raw deal.
He certainly did his best before the course started to ensure that it would be suitable. And he may well have also tried all avenues, diplomatic and otherwise, once things started to go wrong.
I’m just thinking of times in the past when I could have made things a lot easier for myself by not focusing quite so hard on the moral rights of a situation, and concentrating more on doing whatever was necessary to keep teachers/secretaries happy and hence get what I needed.
I don’t know whether that has any relevance to this situation. Just me idly wondering, is all.
The Ministry of Education can be a real stickler for regulations, esp. when it comes to universities.
The ministry would likely be very unhappy that a school has thumbed its nose at what appear to be school and ministry regulations. Add to that the fact that the ministry often distributes special funds to schools with programs for foreigners, and things could get even worse for the school if someone made a formal complaint. The MOE does like to know what happens to its money. Taking MOE funds for an English-language program and then not offering said program could get the school in a world of hurt (and lose it future funding).
Of course, if one wants to start complaining, one should first be certain that one’s visa situation is secure.
Yes, you did. Read the China Post article in the first post of this thread.
[quote=“The China Post”]He submitted all the required documents that included a 25-page research proposal and a statement clearly explaining that he did not speak or understand Chinese.
After the school’s Office of International Student Affairs confirmed that international graduate studies did not require the students to speak or understand Chinese, he was officially admitted to the program after completing all the necessary steps in December 2007. . .
On February 20, he immediately was faced with a thorny issue as the professor of one the program’s mandatory courses, Dr. Lee Pei-shan, only spoke to him in English during the opening minutes of the course, then switched to Chinese for the next hour.
After meeting with her and expressing his desire to learn and study in her class, he told The China Post that he was “coldly dismissed.”
“When I again expressed in the following class that I could not understand Chinese above the most basic level, she clearly stated: ‘That is not my problem,’” he recalled. . .[/quote][/quote]
Sorry, my bad. Apparently I MISread the article rather than reading it. Oops…
You have such a strong opinion about something you don’t have the facts straight on. You are implying things about my neighbor Terry that are simply not true.
Why are people on Forumosa so mean spirited?[/quote]
I apologise for misunderstanding the article. My understanding was that it was a programme that offered instruction in English (some, not all). Based on that, it sounded as though the student, not the programme, was at fault. I don’t see how that constitutes being mean-spirited. Uninformed and overly opinionated, perhaps, but not mean-spirited.
[quote=“joesax”]
Sometimes as a student you have to put aside your notions of what’s right, and how things should be, and just concentrate on doing whatever you have to do in order to get out of there with your bit of paper at the end. .[/quote]
:bravo:
How I wish you were in my grad group. Too many of my cohorts just whine waaaaay to much about unnecessary things…
Nice attempt to put the blame back on the student again. The university is in the wrong here, clearly. Did you read the article?[/quote]
Dial it back there toasty. I’m not blaming him at all. Its a pretty clear cut case. Administration said the classes were in English and they were not. I can understand how the Professor and Student would both be upset.
My question is about what the motivation is of the student to take theses classes based on his background.
Motivation? Interest? Curiosity? Desire for knowledge? What’s the motivation for someone wanting to study math or geography for example? Are you seriously saying that only Chinese speakers should study Chinese affairs? How strange.
Motivation? Interest? Curiosity? Desire for knowledge? What’s the motivation for someone wanting to study math or geography for example? Are you seriously saying that only Chinese speakers should study Chinese affairs? How strange.[/quote]
Let me put it this way - Taiwanese student moves to UK. After 20 years he still does not speak English but now wants to major in English History. Would this seem strange to you?
