Foreign Students On Visas Must Leave USA If Schools Go Online-Only

Politics International Politics
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Immigration to any country is a privilege. Most visas do not guarantee you the unlimited, unconditional right to stay in a country indefinitely.

These students received F-1 and M-1 visas to study in the US subject to certain requirements. Temporary exceptions to those requirements were made because of COVID-19 and now those temporary exceptions are being terminated. M-1 (vocational) students were never been allowed to take online courses. F-1 (academic) students are not allowed to take a full online program.

COVID-19 disruptions might last for 1-2 years and you can be sure people would be crying bloody murder no matter when the exceptions were revoked.

If these students want to stay in the US, they can either enroll in programs that allow them to maintain their eligibility for the visas they received, find alternatives (like switching to a different kind of visa if theyā€™re eligible) or return to their home countries.

A lot of people around the world have been forced to return to their home countries even though it wasnā€™t what they planned or wanted. Life isnā€™t always fair.

Whatā€™s funny is that some of the schools suing ICE over this matter (like Harvard) are themselves facing class action lawsuits from students. Isnā€™t it cruel that these schools refuse to refund the tuition money paid for educational experiences they now say they canā€™t deliver?

If you think the US is mean-spirited and strict, I have to wonder how much youā€™ve traveled. Heckā€¦look no further than Taiwan, which blocked over 26,000 foreign students from returning to complete their studies due to COVID and is currently paying people to snitch on visa overstayers. And letā€™s not even mention the shenanigans they tried to pull with the COVID testing for returning ARC holders.

Thereā€™s plenty of cruelty to go aroundā€¦

www.sbs .com.au/news/this-star-student-is-facing-deportation-from-australia-weeks-out-from-her-final-exams

www.theguardian .com/australia-news/2019/sep/08/i-was-petrified-the-new-zealanders-deported-from-australia-despite-decades-working-there

globalnews .ca/news/5269138/international-student-arrested-facing-deportation-work-permit/

www.koreaherald .com/view.php?ud=20170622000872

www.telegraph .co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/9508115/London-Met-banned-from-issuing-visas-to-foreign-students.html

www.japantimes .co.jp/news/2016/12/06/national/crime-legal/tokyo-court-upholds-deportation-order-thai-teenager-born-raised-japan/

english.kyodonews .net/news/2020/06/29bd4e7ac3ee-feature-japans-coronavirus-entry-ban-disrupting-lives-of-foreign-residents.html

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I am not saying that the US is worse than all other places, but we could certainly be better. At this point we are talking about sending people back who are already studying here, many of whom have probably already signed leases for the coming school year. These students came here with the intent to study in conventional programs, while experiencing life in the US, and the circumstances forcing them to a distance learning format are beyond their control. This ICE initiative seems to be aimed also at incentivising campuses to reopen, possibly as part of a political agenda, or face unexpected losses in revenue.

(Also not saying that Harvard is on a moral high ground given their tuitionā€¦)

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You might be right. I know a kid in this situation who stayed the summer, so that may be coloring my perception of the situationā€“regarding whether international students tend to summer in the US.

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ā€¦andā€¦smoke it.

Thanks for the heads-up. Welcome to the forum.

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trump.

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The circumstances are beyond their control but does that mean it should be open visa season?

Many many foreigners around the world have been forced to leave the countries they were staying/living in, or even refused entry into countries where they hold legal residency or special visas (Iā€™m looking at you Japan and Malaysia).

The situation sucks and messed up so many peopleā€™s plans but that doesnā€™t mean countries are obligated to let everyone stay even when the requirements of their visa can no longer be met. The intent of the M-1 and F-1 visas was never to allow foreign students to go to the US so that they could take online classes.

Itā€™s no different than if you were given the right to work in Taiwan, lost your job and couldnā€™t find another one. Taiwan would not let you extend your ARC indefinitely because of the pandemic if you did not continue to meet the requirements to hold an ARC. Anyone here now on a regular visa or visa exempt entry has been told that they have to leave after 180 days unless it is impossible for them to return to their home country. Many will have to go back to countries where they are at high risk of getting the corona. Is Taiwan cruel?

What the situation in the US shows is just how much people take advantage of the US. While American students sue universities (including Harvard) to get their money back because the online programs they switched to donā€™t provide the quality of education promised, Harvard, MIT etc. sue the government so that they can continue to run a visa scheme for foreign students.

What theyā€™re also not telling you is that a lot of foreign students in the US already returned home because most governments around the world advised their citizens to return home. An exception to this is China which sacrificed its own citizens to promote the narrative that it contained the virus.

China actually told citizens to not come back and even put in place restrictions and forced flight cancellations making it in some cases impossible for citizens to return.

Chinese make up the largest population of foreign students in the US. Why should the US allow visa programs designed for education be exploited by China to control its citizens?

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I never liked this kind of statement. Its lazy. It doesnā€™t get into any details. It allows people to hide behind a blanket statement.

You may as well say everything in life is a privilegeā€¦Breathing is a privilegeā€¦Eating is a privilege ā€¦Being born to a certain family is a privilegeā€¦Having good health is a privilegeā€¦Studying is a privilege.

What makes immigration policy special that they have to use this hackneyed term so often ?

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I was not talking about other countries. I was talking about my country. The goal should not to be ā€œnot as bad as countries with backward policies.ā€ We can do better. Deporting students harms the students with no offsetting benefit to the US.

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privĀ·iĀ·lege
a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group.

By definition, immigration is a privilege. Under international law, countries have the authority to determine the rules under which non-citizens enter and stay in their countries. People use this ā€œhackneyed termā€ because itā€™s accurate. Arguments based on the notion that individuals have the right to enter any country at any time, and stay without condition, are flawed because immigration is not a right.

If you really think entering and staying in a foreign country is the same thing as breathing and eating you should enroll in online courses at Harvard.

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Yeah but itā€™s BORING hearing this kind of argument when people talk about immigration or visa regulations.

We know the government can control just like any policy. Whatā€™s the point in going on and on about 'its a privilege '.

I see it as laziness to justify any decision.

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I was not talking about other countries. I was talking about my country. The goal should not to be ā€œnot as bad as countries with backward policies.ā€ We can do better. Deporting students harms the students with no offsetting benefit to the US.

If you are a legal permanent resident of the US, you can stay. If you are a legal permanent resident of the US, you are permitted to enter the US now. The US isnā€™t even close to the cruelty of countries like Japan and Malaysia.

M-1 and F-1 visas are actually considered nonimmigrant visas because they are for a temporary purpose (studying) and have never given the ability to stay indefinitely. To maintain a M-1 or F-1 visa, you have to meet certain requirements you know about before you apply. M-1 and F-1 visa holders can continue to stay in the US if they meet the requirements.

If you canā€™t meet the requirements because the school you are going to is no longer providing education that complies with the M-1 and F-1 requirements, you can switch to a school that does, obtain a different kind of visa, or comply with the law and leave the country. This isnt rocket science.

Deportation is what happens if you no longer have a valid visa and decide to ignore the law and stay in the country illegally. There are very few countries on this planet that wonā€™t deport you if they find that youā€™re staying illegally.

Weā€™re in the middle of a pandemic. Most countries have advised their citizens to return home and most countries are not allowing foreigners on temporary visas to remain in their countries indefinitely. It sucks and is inconvenient for everybody everywhere.

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Iā€™m sorry youā€™re bored. The only lazy argument I see here is the one comparing immigration to eating and breathing.

People have to say ā€œimmigration is a privilegeā€ because so many arguments always conveniently ignore this fact and pretend itā€™s a right.

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What is the benefit to the US of forcing students to leave if they are already here and might well be able to resume in person classes next semester? It will hurt schools, landlords, and maybe local merchants as well, to some extent anyway. As for transferring to a school that has onsite classes, easier said than done. No real way to transfer at this time of year in time to start fall semester.

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The schools will hold their spots for when they can legally reside again in the U.S.
Perhaps they can take this time to learn something else, or even better, gain credit from other online schools like University of Phoenix and graduate on-time at a much cheaper cost overall.
Thatā€™s the difference between sitting around and complaining about something that can be legally done by any country, and going about and doing something to continue on that same education path a person has chosen, but in a slightly altered way.
Whatā€™s going to happen to them when they might get fired in their career some day, or let go. These things happen in life. They will not die, because of it. Although others here on this forum say the U.S. is the worst place to be now with Covid-19, so maybe they should take a break from living in the most dangerous country in the world now for the virus.

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Dude, itā€™s a pandemic. A lot of things MIGHT happen. Schools might offer in-person classes next semester. They might not offer them for another 1-2 years. We could all turn into zombies
6 months after being infected with corona. Nobody knows.

Every country on the planet is prioritizing the needs of citizens and permanent residents right now. Most countries have advised their citizens to return home. Virtually no countries are allowing foreigners on temporary visas to stay indefinitely when they have the ability to return to their home countries.

If youā€™re in a country on a temporary visa and have the physical ability to return home, itā€™s time to accept the fact that weā€™re in a pandemic and youā€™re probably going to have to go home.

As I linked above the really sad thing is that China has cruelly made it difficult (sometimes impossible) for Chinese students abroad to return home even though many of them want to.

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Again, where is the benefit to the US? I have not seen any real benefit to the students. School admissions donā€™t happen overnight, and itā€™s not the best time to hunt for interim work. And University of Phoenix does not equal UC Berkeley.

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How is sending people home prioritizing the needs of citizens and legal residents?

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Oh thatā€™s good to know.
Letā€™s justify everything with another meaningless line.

And no they are NOT all prioritizing the needs of permanent residents: see Taiwan , or citizens only, see Ireland and plenty of other countries I am sure.

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Apply your thinking everywhere. How does Taiwan telling foreigners currently here without an ARC that they have to leave after 180 days unless it is physically impossible for them to return home prioritize the needs of citizens and ARC holders?

The answer is obvious.

Countries have limited resources (doctors, nurses, ICU beds, medical supplies, PPE, etc.). They have a moral obligation to dedicate those resources to citizens and permanent residents, not people who entered their countries on temporary visas and can return to their home countries but decide they donā€™t want to.

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Well there you go. Youā€™re making my point for me. The US is treating its permanent residents a lot better than other countries are treating theirs. So letā€™s make everyone in the US on a temporary visa a permanent resident, right?