Not totally, about ‘culturally patronising’, though. Just to give an example; I need to visit my mother every year or two. That costs me more than an MRT ticket and a box of chicken essence. My quality of life is far below a local’s if I don’t have that opportunity to do that. If I get sick, I need to get back to my family, etc, etc. So I want more money. If I don’t get it, I don’t do it. It’s not about parity and equality; an expat teacher initially doesn’t have the social and cultural network that a local (or, to be fair, a longterm expat), so they need more cash. So they get the cash, otherwise they wouldn’t come.
Now, some people add on ‘I need a yacht and a holiday home in Italy. If I don’t get that, I’m not doing the job.’ And if what they do can get them the yacht, then that’s a reasonable demand and no-one derides that guy because he makes more than the guy in Starbucks (who, by the way, makes more than in Caffe Nero). Salary isn’t a value judgement; the coffee guy who makes an extra 50Nt (UK) an hour, isn’t a better or worse person; he just commands more cash because he has certain characteristics. Why see it in those terms?
I do see what you are saying, but the Taiwanese economy created the situation. Presumably at some point, there was a shortage, so they ramped up the pay in order to attract people. Now there’s no shortage, so it’s contracting again. No-one gives away money for nothing. People believe native speaking yet unqualified teachers are useful to them and their children, so they will pay as little as it takes to get what they want, as in any other exchange scenario. There’s nothing particularly emotive about it. Taiwanese people who can sell something that Brits want are welcome to come here and be paid whatever they can command.
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agreed, but it seems he is content with the money he makes at least[/quote]
That’s not really a virtue, in and of itself.
The ‘foreign teachers are more likely to engage in sexual assault/statutory rape/relationships with students and so deserve less pay’ angle is pretty racist.
I didnt mean it as they deserve less pay, but these are much larger offences than the ocassional error from a non-native speaker (quoted as /reed/ vs /red/, I amn’t…).
I know there are teachers who don’t sleep with students, but these are my personal experiences of some things foreign teachers do that is “less than expected” of a person of such “moral standing”.
Given your own spelling mistakes, I’ll assume you’re not an English teacher.
Check your placement of the word “some”. The way you’ve written this sentence would suggest that all foreign teachers do this thing, which is clearly not the case. More correctly, it should be “…things some foreign teachers do…”, which could also probably said about some local teachers, as well, not that it makes it any more moral either way.
amn’t is a regional variation, not a mistake. It probably shouldn’t be taught to low level students not living in that region though, of course.
Error? We’re surely not still comparing with local teachers here, are we?
Language is a constant continuum of learning, even for native speakers. A cursory glance round forumosa where a fairly large chunk of the participants are university educated native English speakers throws up a large disparity in language ability, whether they are teachers or not. No-one is error free. An ‘expensive’, native speaking teacher with degrees in linguistics, literature, education or TESOL is probably going to be punching at a higher weight than someone whose education didn’t involve the kind of written language immersion that others’ did. And that grad probably does better on literacy than the dropout who graduated on the KhaoSan Road in 1989.
A Taiwanese teacher offers a lot of great things, but error-free language proficiency is fairly unusual. That is NOT a criticism; it takes a LOT to become truly bilingual and as a language learner myself I really respect the effort it takes. The average work-hard, qualified waiguo/Taiwanese teacher falls down to an extent because she/he is not bilingual, but then again, truly bilingual people rarely stick around to teach languages, for long.
The solution? Well, Taiwan has it. Use both. Pay them both as little as the market will stand.
Seriously, I’m not arguing or trying to convert anyone to Team Leave Taiwan, or arrogantly saying my way is the best way (I’ll get back to you when I’ve got everything I want from life…). Just throwing ideas around. itakitex, I get what you are saying; I first heard it in the 90s in France.
Given your own spelling mistakes, I’ll assume you’re not an English teacher.
Check your placement of the word “some”. The way you’ve written this sentence would suggest that all foreign teachers do this thing, which is clearly not the case. More correctly, it should be “…things some foreign teachers do…”, which could also probably said about some local teachers, as well, not that it makes it any more moral either way.[/quote]
…which could also probably be said about some local…
We all make mistakes when we post. Some of us aren’t anal enough to highlight them. I am. :roflmao:
Schools that have drunk teachers can only blame themselves. No one here ever checks references. With a little more effort buxibans would be well aware if they are hiring a teacher who often comes to work drunk.
Are you so sure about that? Sometimes wages do go down or are flat. Look at Japan over the last 15 years and I am not talking about teaching English in Japan.
Furthermore even if wages have risen in the past in your country does not guarantee they will go up in the future.
Are you so sure about that? Sometimes wages do go down or are flat. Look at Japan over the last 15 years and I am not talking about teaching English in Japan.
Furthermore even if wages have went up in the past in your country does not guarantee they will go up in the future.[/quote]
Quite sure.
Japan? No idea. Never been there, no knowledge of or interest in the place.
Well continue with your beliefs. I am trying to see if there are any sectors in England in which the wages have gone down in the last five to ten years.
Well continue with your beliefs. I am trying to see if their are any sectors in England in which the wages have gone down in the last five to ten years.[/quote]
We are discussing teaching. Google on, if it fills up your day. Why not just add something to the topic being discussed? As I stated already, I’m not arguing with others’ experiences or trying to convince anyone to do anything. We’re all free to choose to work where we like, fortunately.
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We are discussing teaching. Google on, if it fills up your day. Why not just add something to the topic being discussed?[/quote]
This has everything to do with the topic. If there is no guarantee that your wages will go up that detracts from the argument that a reason to return home is that you will be earning more five, ten years latter if you return to your home country.
[quote=“steelersman”][quote]
We are discussing teaching. Google on, if it fills up your day. Why not just add something to the topic being discussed?[/quote]
This has everything to do with the topic. If there is no guarantee that your wages will go up that detracts from the argument that a reason to return home is that you will be earning more five, ten years latter if you return to your home country.[/quote]
Well, if you are a teacher, then, all historical rises would not be a guarantee, but they will give a pretty good indication, surely? I’m 34 and most of my UK friends earn around £35 000-£45 000, with bog-standard (not managers) classroom teachers slightly less, and lawyers, doctors, etc, on considerably more. As a classroom teacher in Taiwan, my income in real terms remained static, with little potential to move beyond 100000NT a month - fine if you are planning a life in Taiwan, not so useful if moving on at some point.
steelersman, if you are happy with what you do and what it pays, then you are well paid, wouldn’t you agree? If another person feels exploited and broke, telling them they aren’t isn’t going to make them feel better about getting up every day, is it? You won’t convince me I had more money two years ago, because … I didn’t. Similarly, I won’t convince you you’d be better off elsewhere because you are very happy where you are now. And why would we try?
It’s a non-debate, but if people want to share their thoughts, that’s a good thing to do.
