Formosan Clouded Leopard declared extinct edit: maybe not

science.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/0 … aiwan?lite

[quote]The Formosan clouded leopard, a clouded-leopard subspecies native to Taiwan, is now extinct, according to a team of zoologists.
“There is little chance that the clouded leopard still exists in Taiwan,” zoologist Chiang Po-jen told Taiwan’s Central News Agency (CNA). “There may be a few of them, but we do not think they exist in any significant numbers.”[/quote]

That is sad.

No wonder my portion was small at the local hot pot restaurant last night.

The pet shop I go to has a beautiful spotted cat for sale for 140k, from memory. 7 months old and bigger (yet still lithe) than all the other cats there. There must be a trade in different breeds of these animals.

about time, i think it was extinct like 30 years ago.

There is a trade in leopard cats or hybrids worldwide, but the Taiwanese leopard cat is an endangered species, I don’t think they could sell that openly. It looks like an overgrown tabby cat with symmetrical markings on their forehead.

Well, with the advances in science nowadays, the meaning of “extinct” might change to something like “temporarily not existent”.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2298805/Scientists-want-bring-24-animals-extinction-Dodos-make-list–dinosaur-DNA-old-Jurassic-Park-isnt-option.html

The only reason it’s just the Formosan Clouded Leopard driven out of business so far, is thanks to the terrain here.

Imagine a gently rounded Taiwan, like an upturned soup bowl. Nice gentle slopes, leading to a plateau at 2500m, with the same variety of wildlife.
You can guarantee there’d be nothing much of anything left today, save for rats and mosquitos.

Yun-bao RIP.

Sorry to hear that!

[quote=“Nuit”]The only reason it’s just the Formosan Clouded Leopard driven out of business so far, is thanks to the terrain here.

Imagine a gently rounded Taiwan, like an upturned soup bowl. Nice gentle slopes, leading to a plateau at 2500m, with the same variety of wildlife.
You can guarantee there’d be nothing much of anything left today, save for rats and mosquitos.

Yun-bao RIP.[/quote]

Actually it almost happened to another deer species but they were reintroduced into Kending national park from a domestic source. I’m sure there have been some other extinctions of birds and mammals along the way too. Still, just like you said, the mountains have done a good job of being a wildlife reservoir.

Yeah but scientists are exacting. They had to conduct a 12- or 13-year study before they could be sure, and even now there’s a chance that there are still a few clouded leopards and the scientists just missed them. But don’t hold your breath.

This guy hangs out at the Taipei Zoo in the “Taiwan animals” section. But he’s not from Taiwan at all.

This is just a regular clouded leopard (Neofelis nebulosa nebulosa I think, whereas the Taiwanese subspecies was N. n. brachyura)

Still, pretty darn cute.

It’s nothing to do with the scientists, the government has known they are likely extinct for decades, and a similar survey in 2004 also came to the same conclusion. Face.

Interestingly there are only thought to be a few thousand to ten thousand clouded leopards left worldwide.

Don’t worry, I am sure the aboriginal hunters didn’t miss any. Wish they are still around… they are magnificent.

I heard from Richard Foster at Barking Deer that a local guide he knows, reputedly one of the best trappers and animal spotters in Taiwan, believes (as do many others) the cloud leopard was not native to Taiwan but likely brought over by the Dutch who were engaged in a lot of exotic species trade. this would explain why the Taiwan CL is genetically identical to the Malaysian one, something that seems more than a little odd considering nearly every plant and animal here is at least a sub-species if not a distinct species.

It would also explain why the animals went extinct as imports often do, even after considerable time. It does seem odd to me, knowing Taiwan’s geography, that a native species well adapted to the environment here couldn’t survive.

[quote=“Mucha Man”]I heard from Richard Foster at Barking Deer that a local guide he knows, reputedly one of the best trappers and animal spotters in Taiwan, believes (as do many others) the cloud leopard was not native to Taiwan but likely brought over by the Dutch who were engaged in a lot of exotic species trade. this would explain why the Taiwan CL is genetically identical to the Malaysian one, something that seems more than a little odd considering nearly every plant and animal here is at least a sub-species if not a distinct species.

It would also explain why the animals went extinct as imports often do, even after considerable time. It does seem odd to me, knowing Taiwan’s geography, that a native species well adapted to the environment here couldn’t survive.[/quote]

There’s clouded leopard decorations from archaeology sites from couple thousand years ago. So I don’t think that claim is legit.

Anyway, for the Stone Tigers:

ettoday.net/news/20120831/96291.htm

[quote=“hansioux”][quote=“Muzha Man”]I heard from Richard Foster at Barking Deer that a local guide he knows, reputedly one of the best trappers and animal spotters in Taiwan, believes (as do many others) the cloud leopard was not native to Taiwan but likely brought over by the Dutch who were engaged in a lot of exotic species trade. this would explain why the Taiwan CL is genetically identical to the Malaysian one, something that seems more than a little odd considering nearly every plant and animal here is at least a sub-species if not a distinct species.

It would also explain why the animals went extinct as imports often do, even after considerable time. It does seem odd to me, knowing Taiwan’s geography, that a native species well adapted to the environment here couldn’t survive.[/quote]

There’s clouded leopard decorations from archaeology sites from couple thousand years ago. So I don’t think that claim is legit.
[/quote]

Pics?

But wasn’t the clouded leopard supposed to prefer lowland forested habitat, if so the odds were really against it, especially as it’s fur pelts were valuable. I don’t know of any evidence for and against the Dutch introducing it, but since there are so many other prey items in Taiwan and the Asian black bear, I don’t see why the leopard could not have come itself while following the prey items during the ice age when a land bridge existed to the mainland (tabel.tcu.edu.tw/r_Historica … aiwan.html). The similarity to mainland leopards could be explained for a few reasons

  1. How many remains of leopards are left for genetic testing , what was the sample size? I’m guessing it’s very small
  2. Are the researchers sure the dead leopard they tested was captured from the wild in Taiwan?
  3. Perhaps the mainland leopards are very inbred already, or there was a small founding population that came to Taiwan, so they never diverged massively, or simply the cut-off time was too recent to experience major divergence with the mainland (15,000 years+)… It seems that there are only really two species of clouded leopard worldwide. The definition of species is actually quite difficult to pin down due to hybridisation.
  4. The Dutch may have introduced Asian mainland leopards which mixed with a local species

[quote=“headhonchoII”]But wasn’t the clouded leopard supposed to prefer lowland forested habitat, if so the odds were really against it, especially as it’s fur pelts were valuable. I don’t know of any evidence for and against the Dutch introducing it, but since there are so many other prey items in Taiwan and the Asian black bear, I don’t see why the leopard could not have come itself while following the prey items during the ice age when a land bridge existed to the mainland (tabel.tcu.edu.tw/r_Historica … aiwan.html). The similarity to mainland leopards could be explained for a few reasons

  1. How many remains of leopards are left for genetic testing , what was the sample size? I’m guessing it’s very small
  2. Are the researchers sure the dead leopard they tested was captured from the wild in Taiwan?
  3. Perhaps the mainland leopards are very inbred already, or there was a small founding population that came to Taiwan, so they never diverged massively, or simply the cut-off time was too recent to experience major divergence with the mainland (15,000 years+)… It seems that there are only really two species of clouded leopard worldwide. The definition of species is actually quite difficult to pin down due to hybridisation.
  4. The Dutch may have introduced Asian mainland leopards which mixed with a local species[/quote]

Good points. It was just something I heard so can’t really respond.

[quote=“Mucha Man”][quote=“hansioux”]
There’s clouded leopard decorations from archaeology sites from couple thousand years ago. So I don’t think that claim is legit.
[/quote]

Pics?[/quote]

[quote=“hansioux”][quote=“Muzha Man”][quote=“hansioux”]
There’s clouded leopard decorations from archaeology sites from couple thousand years ago. So I don’t think that claim is legit.
[/quote]

Pics?[/quote]

[/quote]

Honestly, that could be anything including an early version of Hello Kitty.

Genetically Identical to the Malaysian variety, but not physically identical?:
“Swinhoe (1862) described the Formosan clouded leopard as a distinct subspecies (F.n. brachyurus) on the basis of a shorter tail length”

No evidence was found that they exist, so that means they are certainly all gone?:
“Clouded leopards were believed to be extinct in Nepal, the last published record being from 1863. But in 1987 and 1988, four individuals were found in the southern part of the country”