Well, Mr. He has a past as a financial anal-yst. (IE someone looking thru a lot of crap in order to gain a brown nose and gleam a bit of insight).
I did a bit of number crunching of the number of posts compared to the actual number of posters creating the content on the site.
Here was what I found:
The top 10 posters have created 18% of the posts.
The top 50 posters have created 49% of the posts.
The top 100 posters have created 66% of the posts.
The top 150 posters have created 75% of the posts.
IE 75% of our posts are created by 2% of our members.
Or…
Half our posts are created by 0.8% of our members.
Add in that up to 7 posters among the top 50 are banned or have left the site. (They are Comrade Stalin, Wolf_Reinhold (last post 31 Dec 2004 17:03 ), MaPoSquid, Ac_Dropout, mod lang, Broonale (last post 03 May 2005 12:40), & Toe Save)
That does not look too perfect thru my beer googles.
[quote=“Mr He”]Well, Mr. He has a past as a financial anal-yst. (IE someone looking through a lot of crap in order to gain a brown nose and gleam a bit of insight).
I did a bit of number crunching of the number of posts compared to the actual number of posters creating the content on the site.
Here was what I found:
The top 10 posters have created 18% of the posts.
The top 50 posters have created 49% of the posts.
The top 100 posters have created 66% of the posts.
The top 150 posters have created 75% of the posts.
IE 75% of our posts are created by 2% of our members.
Or…
Half our posts are created by 0.8% of our members.
Add in that up to 7 posters among the top 50 are banned or have left the site. (They are Comrade Stalin, Wolf_Reinhold (last post 31 Dec 2004 17:03 ), MaPoSquid, Ac_Dropout, mod lang, Broonale (last post 03 May 2005 12:40), & Toe Save)
That does not look too perfect through my beer googles.
How do we get a bit of balance in this?[/quote]
Do a descriptive analysis with perhaps a polygon graph based on a frequency chart. A histogram is too hard on the eyes…
Are you basing your analysis on a Means or a Mode type method of analyzing data? That could be the key…
Your sample is skewered when looking at the IP forum. Or perhaps I need to go home and go to bed. The sample of what is posted in IP forum in relation to the total number of users worries me.
:s
Or I could be setting myself up for a hammering based on what little I know.
[quote=“Mr He”]
The top 10 posters have created 18% of the posts.
The top 50 posters have created 49% of the posts.
The top 100 posters have created 66% of the posts.
The top 150 posters have created 75% of the posts.
IE 75% of our posts are created by 2% of our members.
Half our posts are created by 0.8% of our members.?[/quote]
I wonder how many of the top 150 posters started posting through referral from a friend. It may be that there are links all through and that new posters who gain posting momentum without a friend link are rare.
In my case there was no way I was going to post then I started to meet people who do post and then did the same.
I plan on keeping the memory of being a new poster fresh as my experience on the site continues to develop. It seems the easy path (you know, the one Darth Vader took) is to become an experienced poster ready to broadside new posters. Exception would have to be the example of a new poster in the last few days who launched their own broadside against one of the sites highest posters.
That new poster got a simple broadside back and is probably now listing badly. They ignored the information to the right of the screen as they typed so deserve little sympathy.
Durins Banes made a comment about IP and skewing posts. Maybe. Somebody can do more research?
My humble opinion is that IP could be considered to be a bad apple tainting the rest of the site while at the same time building total posts.
Consideration could be given to making IP available to view and post in by invitation (all invited always and must confirm a commitment to the rules) with no moderation. There appear to be a small number of regulars having at each other in there from what I can see.
Admin to be notified of direct violations of serious problems such as physical threats. That way perhaps IP would get more posters adding to the total information base.
The really good part would be that posters could be made to take a holiday for one or two weeks from IP if they go out of control while still having access to the rest of the site.
I hope this idea gets taken seriously. It could just be what the site needs right now to regain some of its vitality lost in the recent bickering.
I believe Mr. He’s analysis to be a little skewed. First of all, there are always waaay more lurkers than posters - that’s a simple fact of online communities. Secondly, it’s right an natural that our most prolific posters are in the minority - not only have they been here the longest, they generally joined at a time when growth was slow. Jump to today, where growth has been phenomenal. You mention seven high-ranking posters who have “left” the site. Are you sure? I believe otherwise, although in some cases I can’t prove it. (If I could, I’d be forced by Forumosa’s own rules to re-ban them.) Comrade Stalin is a long-time poster who “left” the site several times, alwasy coming back. In a spectacular act of cyber-suicide, he came back from the wilderness with a bunch of red-hot flames, including one with violent and graphical mention of forced acts of fellatio! Right, posters like that we just don’t need. Some users that weren’t banned just stopped posting, but still lurk regularly - I can see their names, including their “hidden” status at the bottom of the screen, along with the other “users in the last 24 hours”. Broonale asked to take a break - he needed to focus on other things, and couldn’t tear himself away from the site. As a favour to a friend, I deactivated his account, but will reactivate it any time he asks. I’d say addicition to a site is a good sign, for the site, if not for the user! Mod lang, ac-dropout, Toe Save and MaPoSquid all got busted for repeated violations of the rules, despite several warnings. What can you do? It’s sad to see some great posters (and in more than a few cases personal friends!) self-destruct like that, but hey - it’s only the internet.
If you really want to get a feel for what’s happened to the site, consider these numbers:
September 2003 - 100,000 posts
March 2004 - 140,000 posts, with 84 simultaneous online posters
April 22, 2004- 301 people logged in over a 24 hour period
April 27, 2004 - 150,000 posts, 2,964 registered users
May 2004 - 323 people logged in over a 24 hour period
June 2004 - 94 simultaneous online posters
July 15, 2004 - 180,000 posts
September, 2004 - 200,000 posts, 111 online at once and 360+ unique logins in a 24 period. Forumosa had more posts in the previous year than in all the years before that put together.
October 2004 - 217,510 posts, and 120 simultaneous online posters
November 2004 - 4,000 registered users
January 18, 2005 - 250,000 posts
February 25, 2005 - 5006 registered users
April 16, 2005 - 6001 registered users
May 18, 2005 - 500 unique logins in a 24 period
Today it’s June 5th, and even though I’ve recently purged the membership ranks of inactive/bot posters, we’re still at 6,093 registered users. This site keeps growing and growing, despite technical snafus and limitations, unpaid moderators/administrators, and a chronic lack of cash and time to invest in the site.
Would be less skewed to look at the posts for the last month rather than overall. Still, I suspect the dominance he enumerated is still largely accurate.
The real issue is qualitative, do these dominant posters actually have so much relevant information to share, or are they just roosters crowing atop a dung heap, or dogs marking their territory? And are they in fact driving people away? This would require reading through their posts rather than counting them. Still, I would advocate some limit of 30 posts a month. If only to help these souls find a life outside the internet.
Fair and good - however that implies that the number of contributors to readers is even more skewed than what I assumed just by looking at the registered posterbase. In other words, you are telling me that the quick calculation I did was too conservative and that the situation is more extreme.
Well, perhaps. I would mention Tetsuo and Ironman as 2 relative new posters who are in the top 150, whereas you will find a few very old posters who are pretty far from that “select” group.
Poster growth has been stable since 2000 if I recall correctly, I would not be surprised if the percentage growth has not changed much over time.
I would go as far as to claim that every poster is valuable in his or hers way.
Also, what you are saying is that some of the top posters who left or were banned are posting along in a less high profile manner - IE that the number of posts generated by them is even higher that what my figures suggested - IE that the problem is bigger than I assumed after a quick number-crunching job.
It can be a problem if people stop posting, if it’s because they find the site boring, the moderation heavy-handed or just don’t find that the site appeal to them any more. As I said before, each poster is valuable in ways not always making sense.
Also, I ponder the potential loss by not having a broader active poster base. Each lurker ought to have something to contribute, and something to add, but they don’t do it. Each poster stopping to post detracts from the value of the site in my view.
Even some of the banned posters did contribute to the site in their - somewhat abrasive - way.
[quote=“Maoman”] If you really want to get a feel for what’s happened to the site, consider these numbers:
September 2003 - 100,000 posts
March 2004 - 140,000 posts, with 84 simultaneous online posters
April 22, 2004- 301 people logged in over a 24 hour period
April 27, 2004 - 150,000 posts, 2,964 registered users
May 2004 - 323 people logged in over a 24 hour period
June 2004 - 94 simultaneous online posters
July 15, 2004 - 180,000 posts
September, 2004 - 200,000 posts, 111 online at once and 360+ unique logins in a 24 period. Forumosa had more posts in the previous year than in all the years before that put together.
October 2004 - 217,510 posts, and 120 simultaneous online posters
November 2004 - 4,000 registered users
January 18, 2005 - 250,000 posts
February 25, 2005 - 5006 registered users
April 16, 2005 - 6001 registered users
May 18, 2005 - 500 unique logins in a 24 period
Today it’s June 5th, and even though I’ve recently purged the membership ranks of inactive/bot posters, we’re still at 6,093 registered users. This site keeps growing and growing, despite technical snafus and limitations, unpaid moderators/administrators, and a chronic lack of cash and time to invest in the site. [/quote]
The number of lurkers and posters has grown - so has the internet and the number of people aware of forumosa. However, between them, 98% of our “active” posters have created 25% of the content of teh site. As the number of posts and the number of posters is displayed on the front page, I must admit that I know that the number of lurkers, readers, and posts is big as well, and I congratulate you with your success.
However if Forumosa is to keep moving forward, that patting ourselves on the back is hardly the way to proceed, we need to look at where possible problems are and what can be done to alleviate them. After all, it’s not just important to see what forumosa has become, but also what it could become.
BUT, the growth in posts has for a very large proportion been created by the same small group. What I noticed when I looked at the poster lists was that a huge number of posters got stuck at the 30-40 post level. Dunted? Bored? That’s an issue worthy of further discussions.
As another poster stated with an eloquence greater than mine:
[quote=“Shenme Niao”]
The real issue is qualitative, do these dominant posters actually have so much relevant information to share, or are they just roosters crowing atop a dung heap, or dogs marking their territory? And are they in fact driving people away? This would require reading through their posts rather than counting them. Still, I would advocate some limit of 30 posts a month. If only to help these souls find a life outside the internet.[/quote]
I think it’s pretty damn arrogant of you to assume that high frequency posters (of which surely, I am one) have no life outside the internet. Do you know me personally, or any other HFPoster? What do you base this utter speculation upon?
As for whether or not the posts of ANYONE are of good quality…who’s to judge? I don’t give a fish about the tech posts. Are Miltownkid’s posts crap because of that? No, I doubt it. I don’t post much in VROOM VROOM, does that make Mordeth and MJB and Joesax boring posters? Don’t think so.
Are these forum specific posters, like Fred Smith and MFGR, driving people away from forumosa? How could you tell? How can you poll people who are not here?
Are my wisecracks in the parenting forum driving people away?
What you are putting up here are groundless accusations.
Before you go asking for limitations on the number of posts any one person can make, how about examining the quality of your own first?
It wasn’t mine. I forgot the play on words with For"um"osa, and could not find this site after trying formosa forum as the search string. I had come across the site very briefly before, but had not picked up on the play on words.
[quote=“Shenme Niao”]
The real issue is qualitative, do these dominant posters actually have so much relevant information to share, or are they just roosters crowing atop a dung heap, or dogs marking their territory? And are they in fact driving people away? This would require reading through their posts rather than counting them. Still, I would advocate some limit of 30 posts a month. If only to help these souls find a life outside the internet.[/quote]
Seems like you are over reacting; maybe you do need to get out more… Forumosa is rife with arrogance, speculation, and “discussing the message not the messenger”. I’m just trying to fit in. Often Forumosans (or at least the top 150 who put up 75% of the posts) would say: “its only the internet”… “you need to toughen up like us big manly man Forumosans” etc. I agree that it would be better to actually have adult conversations, but this only seems possible in some of the forums. Anyway, its not like I named you personally. But since 75% of the posts I’ve read are from the dominating posters, while I don’t know them personally, I still think I’m entitled to speculate.
[quote=“jdsmith”]As for whether or not the posts of ANYONE are of good quality…who’s to judge? I don’t give a fish about the tech posts. Are Miltownkid’s posts crap because of that? No, I doubt it. I don’t post much in VROOM VROOM, does that make Mordeth and MJB and Joesax boring posters? Don’t think so.
Are these forum specific posters, like Fred Smith and MFGR, driving people away from forumosa? How could you tell? How can you poll people who are not here?
Are my wisecracks in the parenting forum driving people away?
What you are putting up here are groundless accusations.
Before you go asking for limitations on the number of posts any one person can make, how about examining the quality of your own first? [/quote]
My point is: to explore the OP’s interesting question, we need to do it qualitatively not just quantitatively. And it seems to me the whole point of this thread is to judge, how the society on Forumosa is behaving and consider if it could be improved.
Should I not be allowed to even suggest posting limits? I’m willing to live by them.
I do think there are lots of pointless smart ass comments that permanently offend newbies, and I think the dominating behavior of some Forumosans (not all 150) is partly to blame.
Anyway, your post seems sincere, so I will try to modify my behavior (but not my avatar) going forward. I have tried in my own perverse way to raise consciousness about this issue and maybe my and others pleas have had some impact. But I still think there is a clear traceable record of newbies in their innocent sincerity getting smacked down by arrogant veterans stroking their own egos, and that to some degree this has been institutionalized as a Forumosa attitude, and that the guilty lurk among the top 150. I’ve seen some whitewashing of this issue which to me only proves the point.
I think trying to fit in is the way to go; you needn’t change much…but I think the point is that some newer folks who DO not try to fit in, but come in two guns blazing and flaming left and right do get smacked down…and I’m glad for it. I don’t think there’s any manlyness test to pass. Don’t look for touble and don’t get all mad when you (general you) get a whack on the hand. It IS the internet and it’s no big deal, however, there are many people in here that I consider friends, and some I have met personally…and many other people are in the same friendly boat. Point is, we all really DO know eachother in one way or another…this ain’t yahoo chat.
The VERY best way to fit in is GO TO THE HAPPY HOUR! You will realize that the people in here are very real and for the most part, very very nice.
This might be a good thread for you to start then: Why do you post as much/little as you do? There are reasons some of us post a lot: being at work in front of a PC all day…for example.
[quote]
My point is: to explore the OP’s interesting question, we need to do it qualitatively not just quantitatively. And it seems to me the whole point of this thread is to judge, how the society on Forumosa is behaving and consider if it could be improved. [/quote]
I think we all think of this from time to time.
Ok…uhm…I’m not.
I agree. There are for sure, and many of them come from the same few sources. There could be more self policing…not “governmental” restrictions for this problem though.
They are also responsible for some of the best, funniest, most interesting and infromative threads and comments…
What avatar? I just see a big pointless box.
There might well be a newbie email that new people get when they log in that explains some of the dynamics of the community. We are real people in here, and some may get defensive and some are oversensitive to slight, and some are crude, some pathelogical, and some are pretty damn funny. But there is always room for one or two more.
I also join you in extending a friendly welcome for WhatBird to come join us at a happy hour if he/she happens to be in the area and has the free time to do so. I think it does a lot to underscore your observations about what makes this site tick for many of us.
Let me stress right now that this suggesion is not meant to imply that one cannot enjoy the site immensly or be an important part of the community if one does not come to events. Some of my favourite posters are people I have never met (some of whom it would seem I am unlikely to meet since they are not currently living in Taiwan).
But I do think that when you meet people face to face, and realize that we are all just stumbling along here on this site, all just doing our best to make our own way and share our own points of view – that this realization can do a lot to help a person take a good natured “zing” in the way that it was intended, or to remind a person that we all have bad moods, rough days, or what have you, during which times we may react online with less patience or understanding than we really know we ought to.
As one of my favourite actresses once said:
“Sometimes, you have to look hard at a person, and remember, that he’s doing the best he can. He’s just trying to find his way … same as you.”
Your very mellow these days. I have an abiding interest in the new users. I guess because I was smacked around with my first post and there was nothing wrong with the damn thing other than it was my first post. That poster has dissapeared and I’m still here btw.
Glad to see you sorted it out with JD. He’s on the good list.
Maybe at the next HH and camping thing some idea’s can be passed around with a fresh perspective on how to ease the way in for new posters.
Perhaps an introduction forum. See www.jref.com a Japanese expat site that looks very slick. I registered and introduced myself in a special forum but have not gone back in. They do a bit of work for new users.
btw I don’t like your avatar but that must be the point of it.
[quote=“Hobbes”]As one of my favourite actresses once said:
“Sometimes, you have to look hard at a person, and remember, that he’s doing the best he can. He’s just trying to find his way … same as you.”.[/quote]
Appreciate the above comments. Another issue is, one can feel a bit isolated here on this island, and you find Forumosa with lots of useful information, and you feel like, wow I have a friend in Forumosa, and then you get bitten by the self-appointed guard dogs roving around that pile of information. And various other games that go on. And its a shame because you want to learn and to share and to make Taiwan a better experience for everyone, and you value the help you’ve received, and you want to return it in an open hearted way, but at the same time you feel insulted or hurt. I’ve managed to get through it, learn the games, learn the street fighting of posting. Still, I’m reluctant to expose much of my feelings, that is the chilling effect of the shaming and attacks people get. That said, I’m enjoying my anonymity, and really I’ve said far too much about myself, so I really can’t come to any events. The best we can hope for is that I re-incarnate some day more carefully and guardedly and under that guise I may have a drink with you next year.
In my opinion, there are three things to remember about Internet forums:
They tend to bring out the worst in people (like that nice guy who’s also a bad drunk).
Many people post because it’s like talking, fewer posters read because that’s too much like listening. Most real listeners just lurk.
Posters expect that everyone’s read everything they’ve ever written. So while a long-timer barging into a thread and simply typing “I disagree” means something to a few people, to most it looks silly (or worse, the abruptness offends someone).
I think you do have a friend in Forumosa, even if that does sound sorta corny.
I disagree, however, that there is a real problem with any “guard dogs” around here. I mean, look, if you enter into a party and start opining away without knowing much about the people to whom you are addresing, it is quite likely that they might be offended or at least disagree with your opinion… in which case they would be expected to respond in kind or kindly, depending upon their own personalities and moods at the time.
I’ve had heated debates with many posters here, including sandman, Rascal, Mucha Man, mofangongren, closet queen, Loretta, Bu Lai En and quite a few others. I hold no ill will toward any of these posters, and in fact I like some of them very much, now.
Its really not a big deal. You are expected to find and or make your way. That often involves some compromise and lip biting… but, as has been stated too many times already, but I guess still bears repeating… none of the dogs here actually bite… its just a chat forum… even the barking doesn’t get all that loud.
Perhaps its unfair… but, the more you give the less likely others are to want to come down hard on you elsewhere. You should not let insults or disagreement get you down.
I don’t think others can make you feel shame. Shame comes from within.
Nonsense. You would be welcomed at any events. Do you really think you have posted anything, regardless of how nonsensical it might be, that hasn’t been posted before here?
Right, posters like that we just don’t need. Some users that weren’t banned just stopped posting, but still lurk regularly - I can see their names, including their “hidden” status at the bottom of the screen, along with the other “users in the last 24 hours”. Broonale asked to take a break - he needed to focus on other things, and couldn’t tear himself away from the site. As a favour to a friend, I deactivated his account, but will reactivate it any time he asks. I’d say addicition to a site is a good sign, for the site, if not for the user! 
Mod lang, ac-dropout, Toe Save and MaPoSquid all got busted for repeated violations of the rules, despite several warnings. What can you do? 
It’s sad to see some great posters (and in more than a few cases personal friends!) self-destruct like that, but hey - it’s only the internet.
