thejakartapost.com/news/2012 … ister.html
Foxconn planning on spending as much as ten billion US dollars in plan to bring concentration camp factories to Indonesia !!
First China, next Indonesia and then the WORLD>>>>OOO
Many Indonesians are already enslaved in Mining and palm oil industry … so, what’s new? 
Oh, wait … work for thousands and a possibility to climb the social ladder. :ohreally:
I think the real scandal is they are going to invest US$10 billion overseas and I bet not a tenth of that in Taiwan. Did you read that one fact: employs 1.2 million people in China.
No wonder people like Gou are starting to be seen as pariahs and not local heroes in Taiwan.
[quote=“Mucha Man”]I think the real scandal is they are going to invest US$10 billion overseas and I bet not a tenth of that in Taiwan. Did you read that one fact: employs 1.2 million people in China.
No wonder people like Gou are starting to be seen as pariahs and not local heroes in Taiwan.[/quote]
Especially if you take into account the tax breaks they get, plus the disregard for labor rights, etc. which they then turn around and complain about workers here asking too much, being too expensive and the government not doing enough for them.
How many hospitals/orphanages/elderly homes have they give Taiwanese communities?
Yes, so horrible, they are going to invest in a long under-performing sleeping giant and provide a lot of jobs and improve people’s lives.
This is classic pick on the big guy syndrome. After the dust settled from the last time outrage was directed at Foxconn we learned that their work conditions were better than most factories in China, the author of the ‘damaging’ article was found to be full of shit and the article flawed beyond reproach, and all the BS about suicides etc…were well under the national average in China.
‘enslave’? The fuck out with that nonsense, people will queue up for days for a chance to work there. And as for the Taiwan bit, these are the kinds of jobs and the kinds of factories Taiwan doesn’t want.
Not sure why people love to hate on a winner, but it is pathetic.
Hon Hai can do what they want, but they should stop moaning about Taiwan and Taiwanese so much.
I have heard Gou’s press conferences, lucky they are in Chinese so not many people actually know what he says about workers and politics in various countries.
[quote=“Deuce Dropper”]Yes, so horrible, they are going to invest in a long under-performing sleeping giant and provide a lot of jobs and improve people’s lives.
This is classic pick on the big guy syndrome. After the dust settled from the last time outrage was directed at Foxconn we learned that their work conditions were better than most factories in China, the author of the ‘damaging’ article was found to be full of shit and the article flawed beyond reproach, and all the BS about suicides etc…were well under the national average in China.
‘enslave’? The fuck out with that nonsense, people will queue up for days for a chance to work there. And as for the Taiwan bit, these are the kinds of jobs and the kinds of factories Taiwan doesn’t want.
Not sure why people love to hate on a winner, but it is pathetic.[/quote]
I love the smell of right-wing boilerplate in the evenings. 
[quote=“headhonchoII”]Hon Hai can do what they want, but they should stop moaning about Taiwan and Taiwanese so much.
I have heard Gou’s press conferences, lucky they are in Chinese so not many people actually know what he says about workers and politics in various countries.[/quote]
This. What HH said.
I am all for investments, I am all for jobs. But these people do not come with the best intentions. maybe their factories in China have better conditions than others, but it is not out of the kindness of their hearts, but fear of what PRC officials will say if they slip. And anyways, conditions in the few enterprises they have here in Taiwan leave a lot to be desired. Vacation without salary, anyone? All the benefits of firing people left and right -while even in China they would have a revolution at the gates if they pulled the same capers. And they still complain…
the Good : JObs
the Bad : repetitive, robotic , mind numbing work at just over minimum wage, six days a
week, massive overtime (read over work)
the Ugly : loss of feeling like a human being, suicides
Nobody is asking you to work there Tommy. Pleny of poverty living people will jump at the chance and they are not afraid of hard work.
So as a Taiwanese you approve of this continual and destructive draining of investment away from Taiwan? You approve people like Gou and the Wangs and Koos making their money in Taiwan, polluting the shit out of this place, and then when wages started to get a little too high, and labor standards notching up a tad, moving across the strait rather than reinvesting and raising standards here?
The reality is that business has to compete. My family’s company employes over 2000 people here and in China making specliazed materials for export to European and Americans who will use that product for a very short time before discarding it and moving onto the next fad. We supply the excesses of the I want I want I want consumer. Thats America and Europe Australia and also China and India. Taiwan has to a large part stopped the high polluting industries.
Instead of blaming Foxconn why dont you blame the technology companies like Apple that make billions in profits but put nothing of that back to help their partner companies which are driven to provide at bare minumum costs whilst they make several hundred dollars profit on each device sold.
Are not the very magazines you write for printed on paper that gets wasted after reading?
I had the privilege of working face to face with some of the younger generation of Wangs during my time in Taiwan and I really don’t know why you are comparing them to Gou. First of all, a lot of Formosa Plastics Group operations are in the US South, not China. Secondly, most of their important HQs offices remain in Taiwan. Last of all, their philanthropic work is pretty impressive.
I guess I totally disagree with your low opinion of the Wangs and Koos. They provide jobs to Taiwan and more than 25% of Taiwan’s exports overseas last year were through a Wang-run company. That economic activity benefits Taiwan big time!!! The Koo run banks (China Trust) have offices in North America, including Vancouver. They’ve always treaded lightly in China. Most of their interests remain in Taiwan.
Last of all, China these days is hardly a cheap deal anymore as wages increase and so do taxes. Vietnam, Burma, Cambodia etc. are significantly cheaper. Why do companies remain? Supply chains are better there than anywhere else in Asia. In other words, I think your view of China is outdated.
[quote=“Tommy525”]
Foxconn planning on spending as much as ten billion US dollars in plan to bring concentration camp factories to Indonesia [/quote]
Never been a huge fan of Foxconn or Apple. But considering how the Chinese populations in Indonesia have been abused numerous times by mob violence in the past few decades or Muslim military (millions of PKK commies, mostly ethnic Chinese, were killed after Suharto came to power), I think having factories/large FDI investments/Chinese security in Indonesia is a good thing. Protects the ethnic Chinese against further abuse.
Agree.
Agree.[/quote]
I just returned last week from 4 months travelling in China, from Hainan to Dongbei, from Shenzhen to Dunhuang: met Chinese engineers working on Shanghai’s water treatment system, French engineers working on gas plants in Yinchuan, researchers for Taobao, journalists in the south, farmers, small businessmen, workers, taxi drivers, etc etc. I had discussions with Chinese professionals about labor law, maternity leave, health insurance, and apartment values. I’ve trained Chinese writers and had frank discussions on censorship. I just finished writing about the massive investment in clean energy in western China, urban renewal in Dalian, and am now looking at renewed investment in skiiing.
Would either of you care to take back your idiotic statements?
Agree.[/quote]
I just returned last week from 4 months travelling in China, from Hainan to Dongbei, from Shenzhen to Dunhuang: met Chinese engineers working on Shanghai’s water treatment system, French engineers working on gas plants in Yinchuan, researchers for Taobao, journalists in the south, farmers, small businessmen, workers, taxi drivers, etc etc. I had discussions with Chinese professionals about labor law, maternity leave, health insurance, and apartment values. I’ve trained Chinese writers and had frank discussions on censorship. I just finished writing about the massive investment in clean energy in western China, urban renewal in Dalian, and am now looking at renewed investment in skiiing.
Would either of you care to take back your idiotic statements?[/quote]
If you care to discuss statements do so without calling them idiotic. I run a manufacturing business employing two thousand people most of them in China. Can you let me know what your manufacturing background experience is? You do actually have the experience of your own and not something you just gained by having a few chit chats with people across China. Anybody can do that any day of the week. I do it on a daily basis. I am a materials scientist with a Degree in Chemistry and Masters in Materials Science.
I am sure your experiences traveling for 4 months are nice but I deal with the reality of running a business. I am sure I understand more about how the materials our company produces has to meet the new standards regards toxicity, recycling, and pollution and biodegradable materials in the USA and Europe. I need to deal with the management of the compamy who deal with the work conditions of the employees. Do you?
I’m sure you do. In fact I am certain you do. You are an exemplary frog in a well. But you made a statement that I know little about modern China and I showed that is obviously untrue. If you don’t have the integrity to admit you were wrong then this thread is going to be nothing but sniping back and forth and well, I have a deadline to meet, so good afternoon.
Agree.[/quote]
I just returned last week from 4 months travelling in China, from Hainan to Dongbei, from Shenzhen to Dunhuang: met Chinese engineers working on Shanghai’s water treatment system, French engineers working on gas plants in Yinchuan, researchers for Taobao, journalists in the south, farmers, small businessmen, workers, taxi drivers, etc etc. I had discussions with Chinese professionals about labor law, maternity leave, health insurance, and apartment values. I’ve trained Chinese writers and had frank discussions on censorship. I just finished writing about the massive investment in clean energy in western China, urban renewal in Dalian, and am now looking at renewed investment in skiiing.
Would either of you care to take back your idiotic statements?[/quote]
What’s idiotic about the statement? China is a lot more expensive for foreign companies now with increased taxation rates and with the cost of labour rising significantly. That’s a fact. However, even with these added costs, many companies remain in country rather than go to cheaper locales mentioned above because their businesses need the clusters/supply chains in China that are well developed. In other words, China offers businesses a dynamic environment with sophisticated supply chains. It’s hardly a locale with no regulations where companies can completely use/abuse local labour.
That Taiwan companies are somehow pulling a “fast one” by moving manufacturing opps to the Mainland where labour/environmental standards are lax is both laughable and outdated. Foreign and Taiwanese companies can and do get screwed in China on so many things, even the powerful companies (look at some of the problems foreign/Taiwanese private heath care companies faced over there). So it’s not like there is an easier regulatory environment. You can get screwed by a local government there, the central government, or a provincial jurisdiction, not to mention private sector proxies of those three.
Secondly, right now in China, it is totally a workers’ market. Don’t like your job in one manufacturing area? There are plenty of other jobs out there. HR costs for companies that may have thought Chinese labour was cheap and compliant are rising and rising. 
It’s idiotic to suggest that I don’t know what you’ve said (since I’ve said it myself in many other threads) or that my view of China is outdated.
Anyway, I am out of this. 
Show me where I wrote you have no understanding of modern China? I do question your understanding of actually running any manufacturing business in China or Taiwan. I have been working in China on a regular basis for the last 15 years. I am sure you 4 months travel can compare to that.
All I did was say was that you did not start to use the word idiotic as to statements in the thread. I have my own experiences and opinions and if they differ from yours do I suggest that your statements are idiotic? They are just lacking in the real understanding from a business point of view because it’s obvious you have never run any type of business that employs large numbers of people.