France and Germany don't care about AIDS victims

I want you to know that I am thoroughly disgusted to have you representing my country, with your constant bashing of the EU, UN, France, Germany, and the rest of the world. If you were just another disgruntled nutcase your relentless torrent of bile might be excusable. But given your occupation it is reprehensible. Do you believe that you are advancing your country’s interests with your incessant attacks on the rest of the world? Would it bother you to learn that your constant stream of vitriole only reinforces the image of americans as a bunch of aggressive, insensitive assholes?

And another thing, Fred, rumor has it that you never voted in a presidential election until 2000? Is that true??? If so, I find it astounding how you overcompensated for so many years of apathy with your maniacal obsession for divisive politics. Is it true, Fred? When did you first vote?

Only if you hang around in here lots and regularly contribute… :wink:

He’s not pretending. He already explained that.

I think it was quite clear that fred’s complaint was about France and Germany not following through on their respective promises… its a common theme identified by fred and this instance further supports fred’s idea…

Not the same (IMO). The US is following through with its pledge on this particular matter.

The matter of the UN is a different matter and fred has already addressed it and it is much more complicated than this current matter, etc…

A hypocrite, of course. But that doesn’t apply to anyone in this forum.

[quote=“Rascal”][quote=“The funny Tigerman”]Since when do you consider deadlines important? :astonished:

:wink: [/quote]
I guess I am missing some really good joke here - but what are you referring to?[/quote]

Rascal…

You have never argued that the UNSC deadlines for Saddam to comply should have been important…

Get it? :wink:

Yeah, now I get it. I will laugh about it tomorrow though. :smiley:

Hmmm interesting all this vitriol. Have I ever said I hate France or Germany or the EU? No. I have merely raised points that I think might be of great interest to those who post regularly on this forum. After all, I cannot help but be somewhat confused as to how such similar lapses in international etiquette would draw howls of protest if the US were involved. Now, I raise them here and I have the US attacked when it has not even done anything wrong. Nay it has done a lot of right by supplying the most funding and delivering it for AIDS. So now I hate the French? the Germans? the Europeans? I don’t think so.

I do think though that the UN is pretty close to being worthless. You can quote me on that or prove me wrong. I think that we should do an exhaustive study of the UN and its finances and how much is spent on bureaucracy rather than real programs and how things are decided, but gee, we would have some real trouble getting a hold of those books I imagine. Now, why would that be? Aren’t we all world citizens with a right to know these kinds of things? Oh yeah, that’s right. The UN is not a democracy and not accountable to anyone.

MT: Why is it wrong to post questions about European, German or French behavior when it affects the world? I am merely showing my ‘concern’ as an international ‘citizen’ or should I say ‘citoyen?’ Where have I ever said I hate France, Germany or Europe? I have frequently admitted my sole reason for posting information about the above three is to counter the relentless tide of mindless anti-Americanism on this forum. I am merely curious as to why similar actions by the US would result in numerous new threads by outraged respondents but when I post these I am a hatemonger? Why? What’s the difference?

Eh? You included the US in this discussion and the article you linked yourself does point out such “attacks” against the US, so what are you complaining about?

[quote]US defends AIDS efforts

AP , BANGKOK
Thursday, Jul 15, 2004,Page 1

The US yesterday urged its legions of detractors to end their bickering over condoms and drug patents and join hands with Washington in a global partnership to fight their common enemy: AIDS.

“At this point, perhaps the most critical mistake we can make is to allow this pandemic to divide us,” Randall Tobias, the US AIDS coordinator, said in a speech to the International AIDS Conference.

“We are striving toward the same goal: a world free of HIV/AIDS. When 8,000 lives are lost to AIDS every day, division is a luxury we cannot afford,” he said.

The US has come under intense criticism this week at the six-day conference over its AIDS policies, with activists, scientists and governments finding fault with nearly every Washington policy on HIV.

Its insistence on abstinence as a first line of defense against HIV has been ridiculed as unworkable by proponents of condoms. Tobias said while the US is not against condoms, an abstinence campaign in Uganda shows that the contraceptives are not the only solution.

“Abstinence works, being faithful works, condoms work. Each has its place,” he said.

Tobias noted that the US is spending nearly twice as much to fight global AIDS as the rest of the world’s donor governments combined.

US President George W. Bush has pledged US$15 billion over five years to combat AIDS in Vietnam and 14 countries in Africa and the Caribbean.

“By its actions, the US has challenged the rest of the world to take action. Please join with us in our deepened commitment to the global fight against HIV/AIDS,” Tobias said.

Critics say the money comes with strings attached – it goes to countries that support its abstinence-first policy. Also, the money currently can only buy brandname drugs, usually American, shutting out cheaper generic medicines made by developing countries.

A UN-launched Global Fund allows generic drugs, costing as little as US$150 per person per year, while those approved under the US plan typically cost US$700, said Joia Mukherjee, medical director of Partners in Health, which helps treat poor people in Haiti.

“The last thing I want to worry about is which bottle this stuff is coming out of,” she told reporters. [/quote]
taipeitimes.com/News/front/a … 2003179015

And I am still waiting for any prove/evidence that shows those countries indicted by you would have had to pay up already so that your criticism is warranted. Want to give it another shot?

Well Rascal:

I am merely pointing out what was in the Taipei Times. Why would the US have already committed 90% of what it pledged as have most of the other countries but France and Germany have fallen so far behind. I hope that it does not have anything to do with the serious budget deficits that have plagued both your nations. I certainly would not want to see this have a negative effect on your nations’ economic performance nor would I like to see it weaken your resolve to remain committed to your EU rules like the stability pact. I also hope that it does not make France fall any farther behind in its ability to meet its Kyoto targets. That would be a shame. But you are right, as long as both Germany and France TALK about doing something that should count for something, now shouldn’t it? I guess we could give them both an A for effort and a D for achievement?

I know. Perhaps Germany and France can sell more weapons to China despite the destabilizing effect that would have on the region. Then, they could use the money they earned to meet their AIDS pledge commitments. Would that be acceptable? I really do hope that we can find an acceptable solution to this irresponsible financial behavior by these two important world citizens.

Bollocks

MT:

True. I have never voted in the United States not even once. I am the one that posted this on the 911 thread AGES ago. No one forced me to reveal that information. I did so willingly and I will give you the reason for that after I explain the nonvoting behavior. The reason is that I have very rarely resided in the United States since age 14. I believe that 18 is the age required to be able to vote. I will be voting this year and would have voted in other years, but strange, the registered voter system is not always effective. Ballots are not always sent where they should be. I have once again attempted to register to vote this year. I have received no verification that my application was received and I was informed by AIT that none was given and that I will know that I registered successfully if I get my ballot. That’s it.

Now, as to the reason for my renewed political interest. I have already explained that I do not hate Germany, France or Europe, but I will no longer tolerate America bashing. I sat through numerous dinner parties over the years where America and its stupid policies and presidents and mindless movies and shitty fastfood and ridiculous cities and shopping malls and Britney Spears were trashed while the racism, drugs, poverty, inequality were thrown in my face and I just sat and smiled. That changed overnight on 911. I remember being in shock for two weeks as nary a word of sympathy came from my “friends” who rather took the opportunity to launch into new diatribes about how America was getting what it deserved. This from a nation that had only ever shown my friends’ nations generosity and assistance and friendliness. This from a nation that opened its markets to their products, opened its shores to their families for immigration, for their students to come to school, their poor to get treated through charitable organizations and I said ENOUGH.

So, you will note that my posts date from that period. Look at the original posters. What were the main political themes? Hmmm MT? All anti-America all anti-Bush 24/7 so I am merely here to interject some needed balance and bring these idiots back to reality. I notice that Rascal’s sails have been considerably trimmed now that he has had the true extent of Germany’s involvement in Iraq’s wmd programs revealed. I also notice that there is a lot less mindless discussion about how America armed Saddam and he is our man. Once it was revealed that less than 1 percent of Saddam’s conventional weapons and less than 1 percent of nuclear, missile and chemical (mostly super computers) came from the US and that the biggest culprits were Germany, France and Russia, then silence. Onto a new thread to bash America. While America did sell most of Saddam’s bioweapons according to one source, these were very limited and never used against a civilian population or military force and we have no ensured that they will never be used at all.

But one strategic judgment which in hindsight was determined to be a mistake to curry favor during 1982-3 is vastly different than the long and ongoing programs that the French, Russians and Germans had with Iraq. I merely wanted to point that out. I see that I must have been successful or the subject would still be setting this forum aglow. That it is not is satisfaction enough for me. When people stick to the facts, America can only come out a winner.

Oh, but they are struggling with “what to do”.

[quote]Europe reluctantly eyes a longer work week

In Lyon, France, this week, Bosch, the German tool- and car-parts maker, is demanding that its workers accept a longer 36-hour week and other concessions, or face seeing its jobs go to the Czech Republic.

This type of demand, now more common, startles Europe, which is used to seeing hours decline, not increase.

Europe also has a relatively high jobless rate. Using a standardized unemployment rate calculated by the OECD, Germany has a 9.8 percent jobless rate and France 9.4 percent. That compares with 5.6 percent in the US.

Last week, Germany’s upper house of parliament gave Chancellor Gerhard Schr

[quote=“fred smith”]MT:

True. I have never voted in the United States not even once. I am the one that posted this on the 911 thread AGES ago. No one forced me to reveal that information. I did so willingly and I will give you the reason for that after I explain the nonvoting behavior. The reason is that I have very rarely resided in the United States since age 14. I believe that 18 is the age required to be able to vote. I will be voting this year and would have voted in other years, but strange, the registered voter system is not always effective. Ballots are not always sent where they should be. I have once again attempted to register to vote this year. I have received no verification that my application was received and I was informed by AIT that none was given and that I will know that I registered successfully if I get my ballot. That’s it.
[/quote]

Well, isn’t the US for all its talk about democracy, singularly useless at the mechanics of it. Hand it over to the Indians. Their knowledge and expertise is so evidently needed over there in paranoidschizoland. And where did they learn their skills? Why from the Brits of course, the only truly Great nation the world has ever seen.

BroonAlbion

Broon Ale:

And as a White Male Republican who will Vote for Bush, I think I should raise a civil suit about how my rights have been violated right?

[quote=“fred smith”]Broon Ale:

And as a White Male Republican who will Vote for Bush, I think I should raise a civil suit about how my rights have been violated right?[/quote]

And why the fuck not? You afraid of getting hammered for back taxes earned abroad since your child labour days began at age 14?

No I already got hammered by the IRS from 1991-8 so I know that whole drill.

You didn’t have to actually answer the question…

But seriously though. If you are so ardent a political pundit and with your depth of conviction why don’t you pursue your right to vote more vigourously? It seems odd that with such strongly held beliefs as yours you do not actually follow up on that most basic tenets of democracy: namely your right to vote and the obligation your government, regardless of colour, has to giving you that opportunity to exercise that right. I vote and I haven’t lived in my country, let alone been back for many years. It strikes me as being a bit stupid, if you don’t mind me saying so. Follow it up, for Christ’s sake. make a few calls, write to your congressman (even if he is a democrat you had no say in choosing or opposing). Honestly… :unamused:

BroonBallot

Thank you for encouraging me to ensure that my vote for Bush counts Broon Ale. Just think it could make all the difference in the next election and you will know that I have you to thank for making four more years of Bush possible. I appreciate your worthy convictions.

He won’t lose by just one vote but stranger things have happened, like well he won last time. God I’d laugh if that were so and you couldn’t even get off your right arse cheek to follow up on registering.

BroonMonitor

Fred, can you answer the question? Linking some article that US has paid 90% (sure that number is correct? :wink: ) does not mean the others are not going to fullfil their pledge.
That was your argument/accusation, wasn’t it?

I cannot provide the link Rascal as I have repeatedly told you but you can check out ready for this again:

The graph is on the front page of yesterday’s Taipei Times. Given that all the other nations mentioned had very closely met or exceeded their pledges we are left with a glaring example of tardy commitment to one’s pledges at the very least by Germany and France and gross dismissiveness of agreed upon commitments at the worst. Why have Germany and France not provided this money in a timely fashion? Why are they allowing thousands of innocent AIDS victims to suffer needlessly. Why wouldn’t they want to get this money to these helpless sufferers as soon as was humanly possible? Why?