Update…I emailed the director, Fung Ming-Chu, on this issue last week but (predictably) got no response.
If others want to join in, and for what it’s worth in the month or so remaining in the term of the current administration, the email I found via google search is: fung0727 at npm.gov.tw It might help if she gets more than one foreigner complaint. (PM me if you’d like me to share the contents of my email.)
I just stumbled across this thread. With out going through the whole thing, I understand that now the Museum is giving free admission to all except ARC Holders? Old timers, haven’t we been through this before?
I guess there is no HARTZEL to speak for us anymore. Every few years they do something like this. We’d whine to HARTZEL, he’d create some kind of petition or get some negotiation and eventually the powers caved in. {Residence rights, extended ARC for family members, Open Work Permit, citizenship for kids, driver’s privileges all done by Hartzel and given to me when needed just in time.}
You guys are trying to justify this. I’m sorry I’m a father and a member of a family of 6. My kids and wife are Taiwanese citizens I live in the country and I am low income.
As far as I’m concerned, I’m Taiwanese with out the passport. As a person married to a Taiwanese with Taiwanese family members and living in a rural area I don’t have any extra advantages. There should be a hierarchy though… Married individuals (to Taiwanese citizens) should be treated equal. Workers and students should get a lesser discount IMHO.
All I know is that I don’t get up to Taipei much at all. But I guarantee you, my better half or another family member would give them the EVIL EYE and I wouldn’t be paying any admission fee. Or, if forced to pay they will end up giving me a free knick knack like a mug or something with lots of bu hao issas. Mmm the good old days…
Seriously… things were really bad a few years ago. I had no work rights, just before my first kid was born, Children of foreigner fathers could never be Taiwanese citizens. Never forget.
I think you should organize a protest and get this overturned. Or else things may go back. I’m really burt. As soon as I got my work permit and Permanent Residency I dropped out of the fight… It’s your turn. Hmm… maybe we should find this HARTZEL and force him back into service. Great resources should never die or retire.
Yep, I’m on this boat right along with Tommy525. Was born before they changed the rule. So my mother has dual citizenship (Taiwan and USA) while I had to make a visa run my first year back here when we had trouble getting my first work permit. I say “back” because I was even born here!!
I mentioned earlier that there used to be a rule/policy at the museum that one could get free admission with a foreign passport, but I had not tested it. Maybe somebody else has info on this?
That’s so crazy. I really feel for Tommy and you other guys. (not in any way useful to you, but …)
Its a shit venue anyway. That museum in Shanghai is so much better in terms of presentation. A limited number of exhibits displayed perfectly as opposed to 3000 vases and leaks that bore you to tears.
Yep, I’m on this boat right along with Tommy525. Was born before they changed the rule. So my mother has dual citizenship (Taiwan and USA) while I had to make a visa run my first year back here when we had trouble getting my first work permit. I say “back” because I was even born here!!
I mentioned earlier that there used to be a rule/policy at the museum that one could get free admission with a foreign passport, but I had not tested it. Maybe somebody else has info on this?[/quote]
Wait guys…
I think you can yell and scream and get retroactive citizenship. I have not heard any gripes about it so I thought you could.
The only guy in your boat I know is the kid of a German friend of mine.I was his kids teacher. The boy is now in High school. His father did not want him to have citizenship and he hoped to go back to Germany soon. But I think they are reconsidering. At the time, my friend said it would save him from the army. The boy’s younger brother of course has citizenship. I will give him a call. They sort of moved out of my area, so if anyone knows if one can or cannot get retroactive citizenship please and the reasoning, share the info here or point me to an other thread. My first daughter was born just after the change, thank my lucky stars…
Yep, I’m on this boat right along with Tommy525. Was born before they changed the rule. So my mother has dual citizenship (Taiwan and USA) while I had to make a visa run my first year back here when we had trouble getting my first work permit. I say “back” because I was even born here!!
I mentioned earlier that there used to be a rule/policy at the museum that one could get free admission with a foreign passport, but I had not tested it. Maybe somebody else has info on this?[/quote]
Wait guys…
I think you can yell and scream and get retroactive citizenship. I have not heard any gripes about it so I thought you could.
The only guy in your boat I know is the kid of a German friend of mine.I was his kids teacher. The boy is now in High school. His father did not want him to have citizenship and he hoped to go back to Germany soon. But I think they are reconsidering. At the time, my friend said it would save him from the army. The boy’s younger brother of course has citizenship. I will give him a call. They sort of moved out of my area, so if anyone knows if one can or cannot get retroactive citizenship please and the reasoning, share the info here or point me to an other thread. My first daughter was born just after the change, thank my lucky stars…[/quote]
As long as you were born after 1980. They changed the law to be able to use the mother’s citizenship in 2000. Kids born after 1980 were still dependents of their parents in 2000 and therefore grandfathered in. I was born in…a few years before 1980. Actually, I only missed the cut by 4 years!! :fume:
There used to be many great resources on this site but I guess they all just faded away. Too busy doing their own thing
[quote=“Yang Gui Zi”]
As long as you were born after 1980. They changed the law to be able to use the mother’s citizenship in 2000. Kids born after 1980 were still dependents of their parents in 2000 and therefore grandfathered in. I was born in…a few years before 1980. Actually, I only missed the cut by 4 years!! :fume:[/quote]
That really sucks. Taiwan’s legal system is one where you can’t set “precedents”. Based on past cases. That is why Hartzel made a system to have everyone that needed an exception (this had to do with work permits and drivers licenses where we would just flood them with automatic requests and appeals until they got tired of granting each person an exception and just changed the rules. There is nothing you could do? How many people are in your boat? Have you taken action? I’m curious as to what their excuse is. Clearly it is fair that all living people who are children of at least one Taiwanese citizen should be able to be a citizen. Especially if it was denied to you. Could you not earn citizenship by being her long enough? If this thread is not the place. Please point us to a thread that is or create one. Your history must be shared and remembered.
Back on topic. Are us people with Permanent Residencies allowed to go in for free? We are not tourists or workers?
As for on topic. Are all of u
Well, I got a response. It promises nothing, but the director was cc’d. Here it is:
[quote]Thank you very much for your email to Director Fung dated April 7, 2016 regarding free admission to the National Palace Museum during off-peak hours for foreigners with Residence Certificates.
In order to disperse museum visitors and bring into play the educational function of the Museum, the NPM implemented discounted admission during off hours. After 4:30 pm every day, all visitors can enter the museum on discounted tickets without IDs, and citizens of ROC with ROC ID cards enjoy free admission from 6:30 pm to 9:00 pm on Fridays and Saturdays. Regarding your proposition that holders of ROC Residence Certificates should also enjoy the free admission available to ROC nationals, the museum will report to government financial institutions in the future and evaluate whether your suggestion should be implemented.
We genuinely value your precious input, and hope that you continue to support our work in the future.
Best regards,
The National Palace Museum[/quote]
If you have a moment. Please share the official contact information of the director. This kind of reminds me of the good old day where we had to battle for basic things like rights to have a cell phone, credit cards, discount cards or even the right to shop at certain stores.
I think I will write a sharp letter accusing the place of discrimination and cite some examples of past cases. Face is a very important thing. I’m sure they don’t want to be thought of as being bigots and hurting Taiwanese families, even if there is a foreigner member there. We are on the household registrations. Furthermore all tax payers should and must enjoy the same rights. If not, that can be considered theft.
Seriously. Isn’t there a law firm that has been working on giving us foreigners rights to shop at stores or get certain credit cards and remove other restriction. I saw them on Facebook once. If Hartzel were here, the resources would be in the Legal forum as ready source.
What stores are foreigners not allowed to shop at?
I have local credit cards from two separate banks in Taiwan.
[quote=“wild west hero”]What stores are foreigners not allowed to shop at?
I have local credit cards from two separate banks in Taiwan.[/quote]
He might mean the Veteran’s Affairs co-op supermarkets, can’t think of any others.
[quote=“wild west hero”]What stores are foreigners not allowed to shop at?
I have local credit cards from two separate banks in Taiwan.[/quote]
[quote=“the bear”][quote=“wild west hero”]What stores are foreigners not allowed to shop at?
I have local credit cards from two separate banks in Taiwan.[/quote]
He might mean the Veteran’s Affairs co-op supermarkets, can’t think of any others.[/quote]
Well Veterans Affairs shops even locals cannot shop in as they are for veteranss. Just the same as VA in USA where services are for veterans
[quote=“Taiwan_Student”]If you have a moment. Please share the official contact information of the director. This kind of reminds me of the good old day where we had to battle for basic things like rights to have a cell phone, credit cards, discount cards or even the right to shop at certain stores.
I think I will write a sharp letter accusing the place of discrimination and cite some examples of past cases. Face is a very important thing. I’m sure they don’t want to be thought of as being bigots and hurting Taiwanese families, even if there is a foreigner member there. We are on the household registrations. Furthermore all tax payers should and must enjoy the same rights. If not, that can be considered theft.
Seriously. Isn’t there a law firm that has been working on giving us foreigners rights to shop at stores or get certain credit cards and remove other restriction. I saw them on Facebook once. If Hartzel were here, the resources would be in the Legal forum as ready source.[/quote]
Fung Ming-Chu fung0727@npm.gov.tw
I agree that taxpayers deserve value for money and that being included in the household registration system should count for something.
That said, there is a logical argument in favor of this particular kind of discrimination: national heritage. Most people don’t call for citizenship to be assigned on the basis of taxation (how many people actually think “economic citizenship” a.k.a. selling passports to rich foreigners is a good thing, other than the people benefit directly from those schemes?). So, if every person (theoretically) is born with a certain citizenship, every person is born with the right to enjoy the heritage of his/her country of citizenship, and enjoyment of this right can take the form of e.g. reduced or free admission to a museum dedicated to said heritage.
This theory was once expressed on the Thai MFA’s website (can’t find it there now), with the proviso that by that country’s law the policy of dual pricing is limited to government funded tourist attractions, i.o.w. private museums, amusement parks etc. are not allowed to use (nationality based) dual pricing, to say nothing of restaurants, taxis, etc., though Thailand being very much a developing country, that law is rarely thought to exist in practice. Non-Thai Asians (including Chinese) have been known to benefit from the policy because proof of citizenship is rarely requested unless one looks “foreign”, which makes it a form of de facto racial discrimination.
If the NPM here follows its policy of checking ROC ID cards, then it comes down to three questions:
A) Is the free admission scheme a manifestation of the right to enjoy one’s national heritage?
B) Should household registration entitle one to share in the enjoyment of the community’s heritage, including national heritage?
C) Should the scope of the free admission scheme be expanded for other reasons (e.g. promoting tourism in Taiwan, promoting historical education, etc.)?
If you want to get serious about the discrimination angle, you can bring up ICESCR Art. 15 (the right to take part in cultural life etc.), in which “everyone” definitely means “everyone”, but on the other hand the prohibition of discrimination in Art. 2 covers merely “national origin” and not necessarily one’s current nationality. [strike]If free admission is considered an economic right rather than a cultural right, then it’s subject to the proviso in Art. 2 Par. 3 that permits economic discrimination against foreigners.[/strike]
That is, if Taiwan considers itself a “developing country” in the scope of the ICESCR as the permission to discriminate is limited to such countries. That is what I would bring up, as surely Taiwanese would not want to admit that Taiwan is a 3rd world country.
Oops! How did I miss that word? 
I am taiwanese and I think we are not a 1st world country.