Gay/Stuck in the closet or a Taiwanese feminine culture?

Life LGBTQ+ Forum
1

Hello all,

I grew up in San Francisco and so as a straight male, I tend to think I understand a bit more about gay culture than others back in the States. However, after moving to Taipei, I noticed some weird situations and behaviors and some were very uncomfortable. I’d like to get to know more the truth in order to adjust my attitude towards these things the right way. This also happens to a few of my buddies and even my female friends agree on the weirdness.

  1. Numerous Taiwanese guys adore Abercrombie and Fitch and wear them with pride. Where I come from, this is a store dedicated to people only with ‘gayish’ taste and style. The guy that populated this brand came out of the closet in recent years as well. I’ve never once met a straight guy back in the States wearing anything related to A & F, and we don’t shop at those stores either. But here in Taipei, tons and tons of Taiwanese guys wear them. Are they trying to show they are gay for easier dating purpose (like wearing earrings on right ear) or just like to show they got lots of money buying expensive gay/metrosexual clothings?

  2. I’ve noticed a lot of Taiwanese guys put arms around each other on the street exactly like how a straight guy embraces his girlfriend and then touch each other’s butt or chest or try to hold the other guy’s hand or caress their hair and most of the targeted guys would brush off the other guy’s hand as if they don’t want to but not becoming hostile as if it’s sexual harassment, and then the action repeats later on with same reaction. Straight? I asked a few of them with uneasiness and they all say it’s not a gay thing. Really???

  3. This is the uncomfortable part. Several Taiwanese guys I met would put their hands on my shoulder and surprise me with massaging my shoulders or neck while trying to chat with me while I’m sitting in a chair. Some would ‘tease’ me by quickly slightly touching my butt or nipples or my stomach when saying goodbye but would back off when I told them I do not like that, but then they would all say it’s a guy thing and not homosexual, as if it’s like fist pumping each other and continue to do so next day. This happened to 2 of my American buddies and we all felt uncomfortable or weird when those Taiwanese guys do that. Is this a cultural thing or are these guys stuck in the closet?

Thanks for reading and any positive explanation is appreciated.

2

[quote=“JamesMovieFanatic”]Hello all,

I grew up in San Francisco and so as a straight male, I tend to think I understand a bit more about gay culture than others back in the States. However, after moving to Taipei, I noticed some weird situations and behaviors and some were very uncomfortable. I’d like to get to know more the truth in order to adjust my attitude towards these things the right way. This also happens to a few of my buddies and even my female friends agree on the weirdness.

  1. Numerous Taiwanese guys adore Abercrombie and Fitch and wear them with pride. Where I come from, this is a store dedicated to people only with ‘gayish’ taste and style. The guy that populated this brand came out of the closet in recent years as well. I’ve never once met a straight guy back in the States wearing anything related to A & F, and we don’t shop at those stores either. But here in Taipei, tons and tons of Taiwanese guys wear them. Are they trying to show they are gay for easier dating purpose (like wearing earrings on right ear) or just like to show they got lots of money buying expensive gay/metrosexual clothings?[/quote]

I’ve noticed this too, but I think it’s because A&F is a trendy American brand here. Plus they like the shopping bag with pictures of topless dudes. :smiley: I suppose they hope to have such physiques. But most people I see wearing A&F look nothing like the A&F models. If you haven’t noticed already, metrosexual is the “in” look in Taipei. I wear plain t-shirt and straight leg jeans and people think I’m not fashionable because I don’t wear tight pants. I personally feel that tight pants look like a bad fashion statement. Plus my legs won’t fit in such pants. :slight_smile:

[quote=“JamesMovieFanatic”]
2. I’ve noticed a lot of Taiwanese guys put arms around each other on the street exactly like how a straight guy embraces his girlfriend and then touch each other’s butt or chest or try to hold the other guy’s hand or caress their hair and most of the targeted guys would brush off the other guy’s hand as if they don’t want to but not becoming hostile as if it’s sexual harassment, and then the action repeats later on with same reaction. Straight? I asked a few of them with uneasiness and they all say it’s not a gay thing. Really???[/quote]

Happened to me too. I think it’s a generally accepted way of being friendly. I’m sure you’d feel weird in European countries where men greet each other with a kiss on the cheeks. :slight_smile:

[quote=“JamesMovieFanatic”]
3. This is the uncomfortable part. Several Taiwanese guys I met would put their hands on my shoulder and surprise me with massaging my shoulders or neck while trying to chat with me while I’m sitting in a chair. Some would ‘tease’ me by quickly slightly touching my butt or nipples or my stomach when saying goodbye but would back off when I told them I do not like that, but then they would all say it’s a guy thing and not homosexual, as if it’s like fist pumping each other and continue to do so next day. This happened to 2 of my American buddies and we all felt uncomfortable or weird when those Taiwanese guys do that. Is this a cultural thing or are these guys stuck in the closet?[/quote]

Happened to me too. Possibly you equate massaging with intimacy. The butt touch is kind of like the butt slap in locker rooms I suppose. But nipples? That’s a new one. Unless it was a cold day and your nipples were erect, maybe they didn’t notice it was there? Or they know you’re from SF and they stereotype SF guys as being gay. But be glad they’re not grabbing your crotch. :slight_smile:

3

Thanks for the response Gryphon. I don’t even think A&F is remotely trendy in west coast of US. If they like the shopping bag with topless dudes pic, they are gay for sure, doesn’t matter if they look nothing like the A&F models. The metrosexual look is debatable but I understand. If the #2 behavior is accepted, then I don’t think the targeted guys would brush them off politely and quickly. I’m sure that’s a sign of ‘wtf dude, stop that.’ The massage WAS intimate. It’s not those hard massages but soft caress ones, and my other American buddies all said the same thing. The nipples was more like flicking, so it could be being playful, but you MIGHT do that to buddies you know well, not foreigners who maybe knew you for a month or so, no? A slap on the butt is being funny among guys in US, unless it’s a sports teammate, but a gentle closed palm touch/rub? No, these Taiwanese guys don’t know I’m from SF, just an American is all they know.

[quote=“Gryphon”][quote=“JamesMovieFanatic”]Hello all,

I grew up in San Francisco and so as a straight male, I tend to think I understand a bit more about gay culture than others back in the States. However, after moving to Taipei, I noticed some weird situations and behaviors and some were very uncomfortable. I’d like to get to know more the truth in order to adjust my attitude towards these things the right way. This also happens to a few of my buddies and even my female friends agree on the weirdness.

  1. Numerous Taiwanese guys adore Abercrombie and Fitch and wear them with pride. Where I come from, this is a store dedicated to people only with ‘gayish’ taste and style. The guy that populated this brand came out of the closet in recent years as well. I’ve never once met a straight guy back in the States wearing anything related to A & F, and we don’t shop at those stores either. But here in Taipei, tons and tons of Taiwanese guys wear them. Are they trying to show they are gay for easier dating purpose (like wearing earrings on right ear) or just like to show they got lots of money buying expensive gay/metrosexual clothings?[/quote]

I’ve noticed this too, but I think it’s because A&F is a trendy American brand here. Plus they like the shopping bag with pictures of topless dudes. :smiley: I suppose they hope to have such physiques. But most people I see wearing A&F look nothing like the A&F models. If you haven’t noticed already, metrosexual is the “in” look in Taipei. I wear plain t-shirt and straight leg jeans and people think I’m not fashionable because I don’t wear tight pants. I personally feel that tight pants look like a bad fashion statement. Plus my legs won’t fit in such pants. :slight_smile:

[quote=“JamesMovieFanatic”]
2. I’ve noticed a lot of Taiwanese guys put arms around each other on the street exactly like how a straight guy embraces his girlfriend and then touch each other’s butt or chest or try to hold the other guy’s hand or caress their hair and most of the targeted guys would brush off the other guy’s hand as if they don’t want to but not becoming hostile as if it’s sexual harassment, and then the action repeats later on with same reaction. Straight? I asked a few of them with uneasiness and they all say it’s not a gay thing. Really???[/quote]

Happened to me too. I think it’s a generally accepted way of being friendly. I’m sure you’d feel weird in European countries where men greet each other with a kiss on the cheeks. :slight_smile:

[quote=“JamesMovieFanatic”]
3. This is the uncomfortable part. Several Taiwanese guys I met would put their hands on my shoulder and surprise me with massaging my shoulders or neck while trying to chat with me while I’m sitting in a chair. Some would ‘tease’ me by quickly slightly touching my butt or nipples or my stomach when saying goodbye but would back off when I told them I do not like that, but then they would all say it’s a guy thing and not homosexual, as if it’s like fist pumping each other and continue to do so next day. This happened to 2 of my American buddies and we all felt uncomfortable or weird when those Taiwanese guys do that. Is this a cultural thing or are these guys stuck in the closet?[/quote]

Happened to me too. Possibly you equate massaging with intimacy. The butt touch is kind of like the butt slap in locker rooms I suppose. But nipples? That’s a new one. Unless it was a cold day and your nipples were erect, maybe they didn’t notice it was there? Or they know you’re from SF and they stereotype SF guys as being gay. But be glad they’re not grabbing your crotch. :slight_smile:[/quote]

4

[quote=“JamesMovieFanatic”]Thanks for the response Gryphon. I don’t even think A&F is remotely trendy in west coast of US. If they like the shopping bag with topless dudes pic, they are gay for sure, doesn’t matter if they look nothing like the A&F models. The metrosexual look is debatable but I understand. If the #2 behavior is accepted, then I don’t think the targeted guys would brush them off politely and quickly. I’m sure that’s a sign of ‘wtf dude, stop that.’ The massage WAS intimate. It’s not those hard massages but soft caress ones, and my other American buddies all said the same thing. The nipples was more like flicking, so it could be being playful, but you MIGHT do that to buddies you know well, not foreigners who maybe knew you for a month or so, no? A slap on the butt is being funny among guys in US, unless it’s a sports teammate, but a gentle closed palm touch/rub? No, these Taiwanese guys don’t know I’m from SF, just an American is all they know.
[/quote]

I guess that depends where all this stuff happened then. At work? Hanging out?

About the butt rubbing and nipple flicking, that is weird. Haven’t experienced that, and wouldn’t want to. If you say their behavior makes you uncomfortable, they’ll just feel you’re responding like a girl. They’ll probably back off and try again. Perhaps you can tell those guys that you’re cool with being friends, but where you come from, touching a guy like that is not cool.

5

[quote=“JamesMovieFanatic”]Hello all,
I grew up in San Francisco and so as a straight male, I tend to think I understand a bit more about gay culture than others back in the States. However, after moving to Taipei, I noticed some weird situations and behaviors and some were very uncomfortable. I’d like to get to know more the truth in order to adjust my attitude towards these things the right way. This also happens to a few of my buddies and even my female friends agree on the weirdness./quote]

Maybe the “gay culture” or just the “culture” is different in other countries, or even in other cities. I think in Taipei they don’t have this kind of distinction between “straight look” and “gay look”, they just wear what they want and that’s a good point.

As for the male-male friendship behavior, there is nothing to be surprise of. A lot of guys (and girls) in “community systemes” act like that.

6

I wouldn’t worry about what they wear or whatever ear rings they have.
Let them be what ever they want to be or dress what ever way they like.

Does it really bother you?

Get on with your own life.

Regarding the touching. Some of it sounds a little suspect. I would just say, whilst smiling, “you can’t do that with Westerners, it is a little strange”.
That would probably put paid to that happening again.
I can imagine it feeling weird though experiencing that for the first time.
To use an analogy - imagine a French man going up to a blue truck driver with his buddies chewing Betel nut at a Mahjong table with Taiwan beer and kissing him on the cheeks.

7

I remember the times when I had the arm over the back, the hand on the knee, or the times when they hold your hand or tap your arm to make a point. It’s just cultural. It’s can very disconcerting if you are not expecting it though!