Ok. You’re right. I’m bored at the moment. I retract my question.
OK then. Do you you think that if potential Arab terrorists were given freer access to sexual services in their own countries, they would go out bombing and do you think that al Qaeda would be able to recruit so easily?
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Fine AU:
You negotiate. Give Spain and Portugal to Allah and let us fight back against unilateral efforts by Islamofascists and extremists to change our policies. Strange that you are not targeting them for “unilateralism?” But I forgot only America can be unilateral, but hell, if we keep accomplishing things at this rate, in two years, you can have the Middle East. You can broadcast Oprah each and every day and have a little cry at 4:00 about the latest outrage, sniffle and feel morally uplifted and then head back to your hair curlers.
In the meantime, we know what needs to be done and we will do it. Besides, how else will Brune Ale get his bordellos unless proper capitalism and respect for a good piece of tail are brought to our deprived Middle Eastern friends? Perhaps, we could even open a bar in Baghdad, you know the kind. I envision a long bar that the local girls could dance upon and hell maybe even I fred smith would be willing to go fight the fight at that door. Whadya say?
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Dear AU:
If you cannot tell the difference between the democratically elected president of the United States with its strong commitment to human rights, democracy and protection of same as well as the defense imprimatur in nations all over the world from Japan to South Korea to Turkey to Egypt to Jordan to Poland and Hungary as opposed to al Qaeda which would consign women to secondary status without rights, where there would be no democracy, no respect for human rights, etc. etc. than what can I tell you except make sure that your hair curlers are in tightly enough.
For more statements outlining my already well-expressed contempt for such thinking, please see the beaujolais and braindead thread so I do not have to repeat myself. Wake up and smell the coffee! or you may be serving as someone’s camel soon.
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Al queda gets just what it wants from this latest attack. Thanks for giving the boost of confidence Spain.
Some people around the world need to wake up and smell the 21st century…
[quote=“Nikeh”]
Some people around the world need to wake up and smell the 21st century…[/quote]
mmmm…cordite.
So far the “European” response is talks. And then - you guessed it - another bureaucratic position, an EU commissioner for terrorism.
[quote]
EU calls emergency terror talks
The bomb attacks have prompted concern throughout Europe
European states have called emergency security meetings as suspicion mounts that Islamic militants were involved in the devastating bomb attacks in Spain.
Intelligence officials are to go to Madrid to discuss improving co-operation, while EU ministers will hold emergency talks on Friday.
ecurity issues also look set to dominate a routine EU summit next week.
“We have called a meeting for the coming days of the most important anti-terrorist services from the European Union,” Spain’s outgoing Interior Minister Angel Acebes told reporters.
Top European police officials and others taking part would “co-ordinate inquiries and efforts, exchange information and plan for the future.”
In a related development, an emergency meeting of EU interior and justice ministers is planned in Brussels ahead of a European summit on 25-26 March.
One idea put forward is for a special commissioner to be appointed to combat the terror threat in Europe.
European Commission president Romano Prodi said: “We have to discuss thoroughly the entire (security) strategy and we will do it at the summit next week.”
“The anti-terrorism commissioner could be a piece of that strategy.”
BBC correspondents say the decision to hold the crisis talks reflects the view that the Madrid attacks have security implications well beyond Spanish borders.
European intelligence agencies are said to increasingly believe the attackers were linked to the global Islamist cause rather than Basque separatism.
German Interior Minister Otto Schily said that if it were confirmed that the Madrid bombings had an “Islamic background”, this would mean a new level of threat in Europe.
The Madrid bombings have prompted fierce debate in Germany about security measures, with the opposition calling for airport-style security to be introduced at railway stations across the country.
Security is being tightened elsewhere in Europe, with undercover anti-terrorist police patrolling London’s public transport system for the first time.
Passengers using underground trains in London now face random checks and searches.
Posters have been put up in the city’s transport terminals, urging the public to report anything suspicious.
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3510968.stm[/quote]
Putting up barriers and maintaining something akin to a state of war isn’t going to make the problem go away. It didn’t work in Northern Ireland; it hasn’t worked in Israel.
The governments of Europe may be quick to condemn the American government’s responses, yet they offer few alternatives beyond rhetoric. And then they compound that by always looking to the US for initiatives.
Unfortunately, I doubt the “Europeans” will get serious about this problem until al-Qaeda wreaks more carnage. In doing so, it may yet be that al-Qaeda will shoot itself in the foot and bring the US and Europe closer together on this issue.
Thank you Closet Queen:
My sentiments exactly.
AU: Who said that anyone was against ALL Muslims? Do you think that Bush is? Let me ask you this, if you were living under Fascist Franco Spain, would you want the US to help get rid of him or hold conferences with him to discuss how we can all get along. The nations of the Middle East are akin to the Fascist dictatorships of Europe. So in your case, it was all right to fight fascism but somehow Arabs are not suited to democracy? Who has brought more freedom and benefit to the Arabs recently than George W. Bush? What have those who have opposed him done for the Arabs? Talk, talk talk talk talk, where’s the snooze button and again let me express my utter contempt for European negotiations, discussions, committees.
CQ, it’s funny you mention Ireland. I believe that increased security and intelligence work has actually foiled some terrorist plots. And how can you say that the situation is a failure? The hardline, zero tolerance approach was tried and did indeed fail. Yet in recent years due to a lot of hard work in conflict resolution (a lot done by the former Conservative Prime Minister John Major), as well as changing attitudes on the ground there has been a reduction in terrorism and sectarian violence. Of course there have been some painful compromises - some pretty dubious characters from both sides have been included in the power-sharing. One mother of a victim of sectarian violence said that she hated the power-sharing, but she realised it was the only way forward, the only way to reduce the bloodshed. There are still people who hate each other. But fewer of them are killing people. I see that as progress.
Of course terrorism from Al-Quaida and related groups is different. But the basic lessons apply - a strategic approach, using intelligence and increasing security but also doing diplomatic work so that people who might have felt sympathy for the terrorists instead turn against violence and the terrorists are isolated - such an approach is surely more effective than the endless quest to kill all terrorists, their families and anyone who sympathises with them and might possibly commit terrorist actions in the future.
This is not ‘being nice to’ terrorists, it is not inviting them into our back yards; nobody wants to be somebody’s camel; it is simply the approach that is most likely to work long-term and indeed to reduce short-term bloodshed as well. It is an approach that is distasteful to many of those who have directly experienced terrorist violence, but when the violence just continues on and on, even some of those people recognise that it is the only possible way forward.
For the record, I’m also disturbed at the apparent quick about-face of Spanish voters, and it is not a good message to send to terrorists. It does seem, however, that Aznar contributed to his own downfall by continuing to blame the attacks on ETA.
Let’s also not forget in the case of the Oklahoma City bombing that Nicholls went to Manila and just happened to be staying in the same hotel or area as known al Qaeda members. He suddenly learns about explosives etc. and at the same time, there has been speculation that members of Iraq’s secret service were in Oklahoma and assisted as well. This is not a BUSH thing or hatred against all Muslims and Arabs but how many more examples of Muslim and Arab terrorism does the world have to see before it goes, hmmm might be a problem? Yes, other terrorist groups are active in Spain but in that nation only. That is a homegrown problem that Spain will have to deal with as best as it sees fit. When it is an outside force directing terrorism, how exactly does one “deal” with that? Dialog? Negotiations? Restoration of the Caliphate and sharia for Spain, Portugal and southern France? What? Seems to me the only group target other groups is these Islamofascists who do not seem to be making a big effort to discern between those who are with it and those who are against it. If you are Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Agnostic, Atheist, Shia, you are ALL against and will be targeted. Hell, you can be Sunni and living in Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and that will not help you. There is no understanding these people. They are out to kill us all. Get it? Some of you have Stockholm or is it Helsinki Syndrome already and you have not even been taken over yet.
Perhaps the establishment of a pan-Arab brothel zone stretching from Zahedan to Casablanca run by the Aga Khan and funded by oil money will help distract the dis-enfranchised and unemployed Muslim youth? Bordello caravans for the nomads in Saudi etc…
It could work. Everyone’s getting their end away so no time to overthrow governments, bomb people etc.
Afghans and Pakistanis could go to India thereby forging greater cultural links and people to people contact. Kashmir could be resolved in weeks…
Right on Brune Ale:
And once peace in the Middle East is accomplished, it would give those of us in the “civilized” world a chance to lie on our backs a bit, put our feet up and get up to some rest and relaxation.
Zapatero had some blunt words for Bush and Blair, in his first post-election interview:
“They need to engage in reflection and self-criticism. You can’t bomb a people ‘just in case;’ you can’t organize a war around lies.”
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[quote=“fred smith”]Right on Brune Ale:
And once peace in the Middle East is accomplished, it would give those of us in the “civilized” world a chance to lie on our backs a bit, put our feet up and get up to some rest and relaxation.[/quote]
And some of the action. Globalization should not preclude us from partaking of the facilities in these newly established secular brothels.
But AU:
That was my point exactly. We never finished the job after Germany and Italy but negotiated and talked with Franco and Salazar because we were more worried about the Soviets. How do you feel about that? Should we therefore stop with Iraq and Afghanistan but not take out Syria and Iran? I am seriously interested in where and how this should stop and who should determine it.
Second, who is bombing people “just in case?” Just because your president elect says it does not make it so. Why do you think that Aznar (who is after all Spanish) was so eager to support America in the Middle East? Must be only about oil or some other economic interest? Wake up, put that cigarette down, forget about that new shade of lipstick and think if these people advance, what does that do for women’s rights in the region? What if they were able to force the Spanish government to enact laws stating that all Muslim women in Spain would be subject not to Spanish law but to Islamic law? Or perhaps that the sight of Spanish women wearing short skirts and makeup unaccompanied by males meant that according to their culture, such women are declaring them open season for rape? What would you do? Negotiate? Talk? Hold meetings? Form a committee? Because after all, the man was not wrong right? You led him on. You would have to find ways to understand his rage at being unemployed or perhaps underemployed or just enraged to see the sight of your scantily clad body. All of this would justify his violence and aggression right? I am just curious as to how you decide what violence is justified and if you really think that we are dealing with people that can be reasoned with. Do you really believe that if Spain gives into al Qaeda’s demands that somehow peace will be achieved. This is not what we have discovered. Every demand has been met with new demands.